Stock vs Chassis for Field Shooting

[PathFinder]

This definitely isn't a new topic. There have been several threads vaguely covering preferences for hunting in different types of rifles, plus countless more on other forums. Most of those threads cover preferences, but I think there's more to the debate than mere opinion. My hope for this thread is for it to be completely objective. Not a matter of feel or preference, but function alone specifically focused on hunting centric use in field conditions.
To help guide the thread, this post will have a list of functional characteristics to compare stocks vs chassis. If you have more to add, make the suggestion and I'll add them to the top.
I've seen @Formidilosus chime in on some stock design characteristic threads so hopefully we'll get some more objective analysis here. There are quite a few others that have lots of experience with multiple designs. It would be great if this thread were able to become a go-to reference for those building new rifles who don't have experience with multiple platforms nor the time to play with all of them.
My current personal interest in this comparison is for my Tikka based 6 UM. It's sort of a mid-weight rifle. Not ultralight, but it's primarily a backpack hunting rifle so it needs to stay reasonable. Having the ability to add some weight to it for truck hunts would be nice too, as would folding the stock.

Considerations:

• Rigidity/Accuracy
  • Bedding required vs not
    • Ease of install
  • Proclivity for shift to occur
• Ergonomics
  • Grip
  • Hand position
  • Access to bolt and safety
  • Access to magazine
  • Head position
  • Recoil management
  • Length of pull
• Field Position Shooting
  • Interface with rear support
    • Bag vs other options
  • Interface with front support
    • Bipod
    • Tripod
    • Bag/other
  • Other considerations for adverse conditions/odd spots
• Weight
  • Minimum weight
  • Option to add weight(truck hunts, load development, etc)
• Other characteristics
  • Folding to minimize packed OAL
  • Use in cold weather
  • Carrying-sling or other
  • Magazine compatibility
  • Geometry not prone to snagging/hanging up on brush, pack, etc.
• Cost and availability
  • Lead time and total cost
  • Action inlets

 

[Formidilosus]

This definitely isn't a new topic. There have been several threads vaguely covering preferences for hunting in different types of rifles, plus countless more on other forums. Most of those threads cover preferences, but I think there's more to the debate than mere opinion. My hope for this thread is for it to be completely objective. Not a matter of feel or preference, but function alone specifically focused on hunting centric use in field conditions.
To help guide the thread, this post will have a list of functional characteristics to compare stocks vs chassis. If you have more to add, make the suggestion and I'll add them to the top.
I've seen @Formidilosus chime in on some stock design characteristic threads so hopefully we'll get some more objective analysis here. There are quite a few others that have lots of experience with multiple designs. It would be great if this thread were able to become a go-to reference for those building new rifles who don't have experience with multiple platforms nor the time to play with all of them.
My current personal interest in this comparison is for my Tikka based 6 UM. It's sort of a mid-weight rifle. Not ultralight, but it's primarily a backpack hunting rifle so it needs to stay reasonable. Having the ability to add some weight to it for truck hunts would be nice too, as would folding the stock.

Considerations:

• Rigidity/Accuracy
  • Bedding required vs not
    • Ease of install
  • Proclivity for shift to occur
• Ergonomics
  • Grip
  • Hand position
  • Access to bolt and safety
  • Access to magazine
  • Head position
  • Recoil management
  • Length of pull
• Field Position Shooting
  • Interface with rear support
    • Bag vs other options
  • Interface with front support
    • Bipod
    • Tripod
    • Bag/other
  • Other considerations for adverse conditions/odd spots
• Weight
  • Minimum weight
  • Option to add weight(truck hunts, load development, etc)
• Other characteristics
  • Folding to minimize packed OAL
  • Use in cold weather
  • Carrying-sling or other
  • Magazine compatibility
• Cost and availability
  • Lead time and total cost
  • Action inlets

That’s a pretty good list. Answers below will be for the 5-95% of people. Generally if you aren’t below 5 foot, or above 6’5” that’s you.

I am speaking to observed function in hundreds of shooters/hunters and tens of thousands of rounds fired in the mountains and deserts for all position field shooting- I.E., hunting animals from Florida to Alaska; not PRS, barricade benchrest, or F-Class.



Considerations:

• Rigidity/Accuracy
  
  • Bedding required vs not
    
    • Ease of install
  • Proclivity for shift to occur

All things being equal ann aluminum or magnesium mini chassis is probably best for bedding and stability.

• Ergonomics
  
  • Grip
  • Hand position
  • Access to bolt and safety
  • Access to magazine
  • Head position
  • Recoil management
  • Length of pull

- Grip should be near vertical, thinner rather than large, and a small palm swell does better for most. Distance from trigger face to grip face should be shorter than most stocks feature.

- hand position should be near vertical, with the tang being rounded and/or scalloped for the firing side thumb to line up neutrally.

- access to bolt and safety, true vertical grip, not a pistol grip. Thumb neutrally inline with tang; not PRS offside, or totally wrapped around.

- Access to magazine. Magazine release should be unobtrusive, and not susceptible to inadvertent release.

- Head position. Not sure what you mean here? Angle of the head/face? If so, not totally vertical, and not totally parallel.

- Recoil management. Straight line, neutral.

-Length of pull. That is based on each person, however the trend to shooting short LOP’s doesn’t seem to be great across the board. It’s great in prone, or a perfect tripod position, but in alternate field positions it seems to be causing more issues than a slightly too long LOP. FWIW, I shoot a longer LOP than would be suggested.

• Field Position Shooting
  
  • Interface with rear support
    
    • Bag vs other options
  • Interface with front support
    
    • Bipod
    • Tripod
    • Bag/other
  • Other considerations for adverse conditions/odd spots

- Interface with rear support. Toe line should be parallel, or near parallel with bore. Bag.

- Interface with front support. Forend should be parallel with bore. Rounded for carry comfort, and ability to wedge/lock in on odd supports. Should not be overly wide. Nothing should be hanging from the bottom of the forend unless currently using that item- I.E., no pic rails, Arca, etc. They suck when shooting from odd positions and only hurt the shooter when not utilizing them. If required to have a rail, having a short rail mounted all the way to the front, or all the way to the rear (sucks when carrying) has the least interference when shooting.

• Weight
  
  • Minimum weight
  • Option to add weight(truck hunts, load development, etc)

- Minimum weight without sacrificing stability. Currently that seems to be between 20-30 ounces.

- Adding weight is a game thing. Waking up one day and being like “I’m going to add four pounds to my rifle for this deer hunt this morning” is not a real thing. Either the gun is shootable or it isn’t.

• Other characteristics
  
  • Folding to minimize packed OAL
  • Use in cold weather
  • Carrying-sling or other
  • Magazine compatibility

- Folding would be great, unfortunately in conventional stocks it adds a lot of undue weight. Not a requirement generally.

- Cold weather. No metal. Metal chassis absolutely suck in the cold. I know of two people that have gotten mild to sever skin tissue damage from carrying and shooting metal chassis in Montana. One cannot overstate how much metal chassis suck in the cold.

- Sling use seems to be person specific. Almost no one I am around hunts with them on the rifle anymore.

- AICS is the standard. However, at least with Tikkas if the carriage fits in the factory mag, they are more reliable and better feeding than AICS.






A field stock should be composite or wood, not metal. Ideally with am aluminum or magnesium mini chassis/bedding block. A near vertical grip, not pistol grip, that is rounded and scalloped to allow the thumb to be inline with the tang. Trigger reach should be relatively short. It should have a negative comb, and negative drop at heel (butt pad inline with barrel). The toe should be parallel with the bore, or at least have a usable flat spot. The forend should be parallel with the bore, of standard width, flatter on the bottom with rounded sides. A hidden or recessed way to quickly attach tripods or bipods, that does not interfere with the forend or carrying.



Of every stock on the market, this is as close as anyone has come to getting it all correct-

 

[Macintosh]

One thing I didnt see that I have personally noticed is how a stock/chassis does in terms of snagging, i.e. does it have openings or protrusions such as between a barrel and forend, that are more or less prone to snagging on pack straps, brush, etc.

 

[Formidilosus]

When speaking “field shooting” I am not referring to these, even though this is what is driving the rifle market-

This-


This-



This-



This (note three tripods setup to just move from tripod to tripod during a stage)



Nor this-



Is “field” shooting, anymore than practically this is-




I have nothing against PRS/NRL matches or competition, however the equipment being used is not practical for the unbelievable vast majority of western hunters.

 

[Lawnboi]

@Formidilosus we need to get you a eh1tk with a mini chassis to beat up.

No negative comb but it’s so close in all other regards. Really enjoy the ones I have.

Totally agree on the metal chassis. I have one for a game gun, and wouldn’t consider it for hunting, pretty much ever.




This is a good topic though.

Oh yea, on chassis…. Rusty screws…. The more screws the more rust.

 

[venado mula]

I'm the classic sporter mountain rifle guy. I prefer pencil thin stainless barrels and slim sporter stocks (you will carry your rifle more than you will shoot it while hunting). My rifle weighs 7.0 lbs with everything. Low rings, no pic rails, no brakes, no suppressors, no extra junk on it. I can honestly say I've never seen a hunter come out of the mountains with a storm trooper rifle (chassis stock with an enormous Nightforce scope, all black, like Star Wars). I don't believe they are very practical for Western mountain hunting.

 

[Formidilosus]

We just spent a week with 10x Roksliders shooting in the mountains, despite what was initially though and brought, I do not believe any of them want metal chassis, 5lb shooting tripods, rails all over the forend, etc. after doing it for a week.

This is field shooting that I am speaking about and are all shots we’ve had to take in the last couple years of hunting-












And using it on animals.

Just killed an elk, no time to use a tripod-



Just killed an elk. No time for a tripod, and snow is too deep for a bipod unless you had a triple pull-



Just killed a bear, standing off the top of a hiking stick, couldn’t go lower than standing, and no time for a tripod-



Just killed an elk, bipod sucked on this frozen ground- didn’t want to load due to slipping-





I am aware that some people purposely set up where their only shot will be prone off a bipod, or sitting off a tripod, etc., and they set up their rifles/equipment specifically for that. Thats fine. However that is hardly normal for most hunters, nor is it the most effective way to setup rifles for killing animals at will under any condition. Just as with PRS setups it is contrived, not born out of necessity due to field conditions.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus we need to get you a eh1tk with a mini chassis to beat up.

No negative comb but it’s so close in all other regards. Really enjoy the ones I have.

View attachment 577435

I’ve used them, though I do need to refresh as it’s been a while. They fall in the same class as the A3 and even Stocky’s VG. Close, but not all the way there.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’ve used them, though I do need to refresh as it’s been a while. They fall in the same class as the A3 and even Stocky’s VG. Close, but not all the way there.

Iv had a couple Mcmillan and a bravo prior to these. Mcmillan builds a good stock but they have things that I can’t deal with anymore, like the sloped area under the stock, and low comb.

The mini chassis for the factory tikka mags is pretty recent and has been very good to me. Pretty snug fit sandwiching metal between the bottom metal and action. I like that it’s given me bravo ergonomics, without dealing with aics magazines.

A slightly negative comb is about all I’d ask for on that stock.

 

[Keith Stone]

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Of every stock on the market, this is as close as anyone has come to getting it all correct-

What is it? Gunwerks?

 

[Formidilosus]

What is it? Gunwerks?

Corrrect. Gen 1 Magnus.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Been using a couple variations of Manners EH1 (EH1/EH1A/EHF1A) the past few years and I've made my way back to KRG just for my own personal ergonomics and desired feature set.

 

[Dobermann]

Nothing should be hanging from the bottom of the forend unless currently using that item- I.E., no pic rails, Arca, etc. ...

A hidden or recessed way to quickly attach tripods or bipods, that does not interfere with the forend or carrying.

Thanks Form, much in here to ponder as usual.

For now - and I know not being reliant on bipods underpins much of what you wrote - I'm wondering if you think such a thing currently exists?

No pic or Arca / RRS Dovetail removes most from contention. I'm guessing a fore end-mounted spigot (as used by some Tier One models and Neopods) is out of contention, as it's a possible snag point? UIT rails for being inletted? Spartan's inletted adapter (although I find the Spartan bipods very sloppy)? An inbuilt bipod such as on the Steyr Scout?

The only other inline/inbuilt bipod I'm currently aware of is the BLK LBL, but that's for a metal fore end, looks like it might have snag points, and is likely not congruent with the kind of field shooting you're talking about.

One other emerging option is integral Arca / RRS Dovetail, such as on the XLRs and MDT Hnt 26 - but some of these are metal, and I'm not sure we've had enough around for long enough / tested to know how carbon holds up as an Arca host over time ...

I'm guessing you might be tempted to say that most true field shooting will be done off a pack, interlinked hiking sticks, objects in the field and so on ... but your second quote above had me wondering if there's some bipod and/or attachment combo that I'm not aware of yet.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

Whats the weight difference between a Tikka KRG Bravo and a XLR Chassis with the not carbon buttstock? Love shooting my XLR, but had a MESA altitude last trip west so cold stock wasn't a issue. Would the KRG be similar to my XLR in shooting feel while having not so much metal?

Awesome positional shooting pictures above also!

 

[JohnJohnson]

Whats the weight difference between a Tikka KRG Bravo and a XLR Chassis with the not carbon buttstock? Love shooting my XLR, but had a MESA altitude last trip west so cold stock wasn't a issue. Would the KRG be similar to my XLR in shooting feel while having not so much metal?

The KRG Bravo is 2.9lbs and (if I looked at the right one) I believe the XLR is 4 pounds 3 oz. They wouldn't be similar in shooting feel because the XLR has a pistol grip and the KRG Bravo has the form of more of a traditional stock with a vertical grip.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

The KRG Bravo is 2.9lbs and (if I looked at the right one) I believe the XLR is 4 pounds 3 oz. They wouldn't be similar in shooting feel because the XLR has a pistol grip and the KRG Bravo has the form of more of a traditional stock with a vertical grip.

Mostly I'm concerned with the recoil impulse coming straight back like with the XLR. the Altitude stock can get a little jumpy compared to the XLR.

 

[XLR]

I will start this by saying obviously I am representing a chassis company but I have spent a lot of time behind not only chassis but a Manners EH1, KRG Bravo, and other stocks and chassis on the market. I will also add that I do shoot PRS to build skills that will help me for hunting season.
Considerations:

• Rigidity/Accuracy
  • Bedding required vs not - Its always nice to have a chassis or bedding block that doesn't require bedding. Just saves you the $200 right off the bat.
  • Proclivity for shift to occur - A properly inletted chassis or bedding block will allow you to see zero shift as long as you are consistently getting behind the rifle.
• Ergonomics
  • Grip - Whatever fits you the best. I have used some massive grips that I prefer but I also have big hands. Try a ton of different ones and see what you are the most comfortable with.
  • Hand position - Whatever is comfortable. I prefer a vertical grip and a thumb rest. I know other great shooters that wrap their thumb around a pistol grip. Its all personal preference.
  • Access to bolt and safety - This comes down to the grip IMO. If you are running your thumb on the same side as your shooting hand then you will have quicker and smoother bolt manipulation.
  • Access to magazine - Low profile magazines and latches that will not fall out or get snagged in the field.
  • Head position - Whatever fits your face the best. If you do not know what height you prefer then an adjustable cheek rest is a must. Whether you run a chin weld, jaw weld, or cheek weld will all dictate where you need the cheek rest height set at. Personally I run mine very low.
  • Recoil management - comes down to practice behind the rifle and how well you can build a position with the gear you have. I always prefer loading the rifle in whatever position I am shooting from. Thats the beauty of clamping into a good tripod is you can load into it from any position.
  • Length of pull - Whatever fits your body. You want to be able to get a good sight picture in any shooting position and be able to run the bolt without sacrificing your shooting position.
• Field Position Shooting
  • Interface with rear support - The bigger the better but that also adds weight. I like something I can hook my thumb in so I can move fluently if needed. I dont carry a bag while hunting so normally its going to be my backpack, jacket, or a tripod leg (even while prone).
  • Interface with front support - Depends on if you are shooting with a bipod or tripod. No matter what I have a full length arca rail (even when i was running stocks). Tripods want to be clamped about an inch forward of the balance point for the most stablility. bipods want to be out on the end of the rifle.
  • Other considerations for adverse conditions/odd spots - I prefer having a full length arca rail so you do not have any snagging if you end up shooting off a pack or jacket. Nothing more frustrating than throwing your rifle on a tree branch and a pic rail gets caught up.
• Weight
  • Minimum weight - Depends on the hunt and hunter but the heavier the rifle the easier it is to shoot, also sucks to pack. Also depends on the caliber. - I prefer a 9 lb 6.5 PRC or 12 lb 7mm Rem mag if hunting alone. If you have a competent spotter then you can go as light as you want.
  • Option to add weight(truck hunts, load development, etc) - Adding weight is great for getting more comfortable behind the rifle especially when you have women or kids who are learning. Take them off even if you are truck hunting otherwise your truck hunt will turn into a long hike with a 20 lb rifle (ask me how I know).
• Other characteristics
  • Folding to minimize packed OAL - NO brainer! Cutting 9 inches off a rifle keeps it from getting snagged in the brush. I can also put my entire rifle into a pack when its raining.
  • Use in cold weather- If its cold I wear gloves and cannot tell the difference. My hands are pretty sensitive after years of hunting so I am wearing gloves pretty much all day. I will note if you are planning on shooting with gloves on make sure to practice with them! I have seen far too many NDs from this.
  • Carrying-sling or other - Its either strapped to my pack or in my hand. Slings just get caught up in brush.
  • Magazine compatibility - Doesn't matter imo. BDL is low profile, but I like being able to run magazines. Mag latch and magazine protrusion is more important imo.
  • Geometry not prone to snagging/hanging up on brush, pack, etc. - Can definitely be frustrating! Chassis can get snagged a little more depending on the buttstock design. Remove your sling and it will help a lot.
• Cost and availability
  • Lead time and total cost - Lead time.... lets just not talk about that. But seriously reach out to manufacturers and we can point you in the right direction for different suppliers. Whether that's barrels, chassis stocks, etc there's a lot of small hidden shops that not many people know about who carry the products! Rifles are not cheap so get what you truely believe is going to be the best product. Otherwise all you will think about is what you are missing out on. If you have to wait an extra year to buy it then do so
  • Action inlets - Just get a Remington or Tikka so you can get the stock/chassis you want! I know you love your Mauser but we are not making an inlet for it.

 

[DangerRanger]

Iv had a couple Mcmillan and a bravo prior to these. Mcmillan builds a good stock but they have things that I can’t deal with anymore, like the sloped area under the stock, and low comb.

The mini chassis for the factory tikka mags is pretty recent and has been very good to me. Pretty snug fit sandwiching metal between the bottom metal and action. I like that it’s given me bravo ergonomics, without dealing with aics magazines.

A slightly negative comb is about all I’d ask for on that stock.
View attachment 577498

I’ve been enjoying mine. I had to build up the cheek area a touch to make it perfect prone, but I honestly may take that off as it makes it a little harder to get behind in weirdo positions that I find myself crumpling into in while in trees. I think it hits a solid general do all lr/hunting shape so far. The mini chassis is a little heavy though. Would be nice if I could get some adjustments in the butt at the same weight.

 

[PathFinder]

That’s a pretty good list. Answers below will be for the 5-95% of people. Generally if you aren’t below 5 foot, or above 6’5” that’s you.

I am speaking to observed function in hundreds of shooters/hunters and tens of thousands of rounds fired in the mountains and deserts for all position field shooting- I.E., hunting animals from Florida to Alaska; not PRS, barricade benchrest, or F-Class.



Considerations:

• Rigidity/Accuracy
  
  • Bedding required vs not
    
    • Ease of install
  • Proclivity for shift to occur

All things being equal, and aluminum or magnesium mini chassis is probably best for bedding and stability.

• Ergonomics
  
  • Grip
  • Hand position
  • Access to bolt and safety
  • Access to magazine
  • Head position
  • Recoil management
  • Length of pull

- Grip should be near vertical, thinner rather than large, and a small palm swell does well for most. Distance from trigger face to grip face should be shorter than most stocks feature.

- hand position should be near vertical, with the tang being rounded and/or scalloped for the firing side thumb to line up neutrally.

- access to bolt and safety, true vertical grip, not a pistol grip. Thumb neutrally inline with tang; not PRS offside, or totally wrapped around.

- Access ti magazine. Magazine release should be unobtrusive, and not susceptible to inadvertent release.

- Head position. Not sure what you mean here? Angle of the head/face? If so, not totally vertical, and not totally parallel.

- Recoil management. Straight line, neutral.

-Length of pull. That is based on each person, however the trend to shooting short LOP’s doesn’t seem to be great across the board. It’s great in prone, or a perfect tripod position, but in alternate field positions it seems to be causing more issues than a slightly too long LOP. FWIW, I shoot a longer LOP than would be suggested.

• Field Position Shooting
  
  • Interface with rear support
    
    • Bag vs other options
  • Interface with front support
    
    • Bipod
    • Tripod
    • Bag/other
  • Other considerations for adverse conditions/odd spots

- Interface with rear support. Toe line should be parallel, or near parallel with bore. Bag.

- Interface with front support. Forend should be parallel with bore. Rounded for carry comfort, and ability to wedge/lock in on odd supports. Should bot be overly wide. Nothing should be hanging from the bottom of the forend unless currently using that item- I.E., no pic rails, Arca, etc. They suck when shooting from odd positions and only hurt the shooter when not utilizing them. If required to have a rail, having a short rail mounted all the way to the front, or all the way to the rear (sucks when carrying) has the least interference when shooting.

• Weight
  
  • Minimum weight
  • Option to add weight(truck hunts, load development, etc)

- Minimum weight without sacrificing stability. Currently that seems to be between 20-30 ounces.

- Adding weight is a game thing. Waking up on day and being like “I’m going to add four pounds to my rifle for this deer hunt this morning” is not a real thing. Either the gun is shootable or it isn’t.

• Other characteristics
  
  • Folding to minimize packed OAL
  • Use in cold weather
  • Carrying-sling or other
  • Magazine compatibility

- Folding would be great, unfortunately in conventional stocks it adds a lot of undue weight. Not a requirement generally.

- Cold weather. No metal. Metal chassis absolutely suck in the cold. I know two people that have gotten mild to sever skin tissue damage from carrying and shooting metal chassis in Montana. No can not overstate how much metal chassis suck in the cold.

- Sling use seems to be person specific. Almost no one I am around hunts with them on the rifle anymore.

- AICS is the standard. However, at least with Tikkas if the carriage fits in the factory mag, they are more reliable and better feeding than AICS.






A field stock should be composite or wood, not metal. Jesse for ideally with a magnesium mini chassis/bedding block. A near vertical grip, not pistol grip, that is rounded and scalloped to allow the thumb to be inline with the tang. Trigger reach should be relatively short. It should have a negative comb, and negative drop at heel (butt pad inline with barrel). The toe should be parallel with the bore, or at least have a usable flat spot. The forend should be parallel with the bore, of standard width, flatter on the bottom with rounded sides. A hidden or recessed way to quickly attach tripods or bipods, that does not interfere with the forend or carrying.



Of every stock on the market, this is as close as anyone has come to getting it all correct-
View attachment 577411

Really appreciate the detailed responses. This is exactly what I was hoping for on this thread.
I was dead set on a lightweight chassis, mostly because I was dead set on it being able to fold. The more I thought through odd field positions the more that seemed less ideal.
It probably needs to be a different thread, but now I'm trying to sort out which Tikka option is ideal:

• PSE E-Tac
• Stockys (Had one and didn't love the grip or construction)
• Iota EKO (Fore end is odd)
• Allterra (Questionable durability?)
• KRG Bravo (Heavy, but I'm convinced I can take 1lb out of it with a bit of design work)
• PDI Precision Hunter G3. (Butt is too low)
• Mcmillan Game Warden LR (Already covered issues in another thread)
• Manners EH1TK (Looks close, could use a negative comb)
• Just buy a used CTR stock and forget spending $$ on any of the above options as none are ideal