Stock vs Chassis for Field Shooting

[Wrench]

I like the flat bottomed vert grip stuff for prone work, but I don't snap shoot them well at all. I find something closer to a htg adjustable is my compromise.

 

[venustical]

IMO, Chassis are on the heavy side. They offer a lot of versatility and flexibility though. You can attach all kinds of doodads to them.

I think stocks look better. They are usually lighter but you give up some flexibility and attachment points.

If you had a Remington or Tikka I'd suggest the best of both worlds and have you look at the Manners mini-chassis stocks.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’ve been enjoying mine. I had to build up the cheek area a touch to make it perfect prone, but I honestly may take that off as it makes it a little harder to get behind in weirdo positions that I find myself crumpling into in while in trees. I think it hits a solid general do all lr/hunting shape so far. The mini chassis is a little heavy though. Would be nice if I could get some adjustments in the butt at the same weight.

I’ve been enjoying mine. I had to build up the cheek area a touch to make it perfect prone, but I honestly may take that off as it makes it a little harder to get behind in weirdo positions that I find myself crumpling into in while in trees. I think it hits a solid general do all lr/hunting shape so far. The mini chassis is a little heavy though. Would be nice if I could get some adjustments in the butt at the same weight.

I have one with a cheek spacer and don’t use any of the spacers. Find it’s perfect for a jaw weld, placing little pressure on the cheek.

A lightweight adjustable length and height butt pad would be awsome.

I think manners could also come up with a grip system for it similar to the cheek spacer to move the grip to a desired location.


Nit picky. I know what I need for a LOP and particularly on the eh1 I can get along with the reach to trigger just fine.

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks Form, much in here to ponder as usual.

For now - and I know not being reliant on bipods underpins much of what you wrote - I'm wondering if you think such a thing currently exists?

Nothing in its current form. There may be an option in the future.

No pic or Arca / RRS Dovetail removes most from contention. I'm guessing a fore end-mounted spigot (as used by some Tier One models and Neopods) is out of contention, as it's a possible snag point? UIT rails for being inletted? Spartan's inletted adapter (although I find the Spartan bipods very sloppy)? An inbuilt bipod such as on the Steyr Scout?

The forend spigot makes bipod use fine, but doesn’t allow anything for a tripod.

One other emerging option is integral Arca / RRS Dovetail, such as on the XLRs and MDT Hnt 26 - but some of these are metal, and I'm not sure we've had enough around for long enough / tested to know how carbon holds up as an Arca host over time ...

The first thing is Arca doesn’t feel good to carry whether metal or not. The second, is that for most carbon Arca might be ok, I highly doubt it will stand up to legit hard use.

I'm guessing you might be tempted to say that most true field shooting will be done off a pack, interlinked hiking sticks, objects in the field and so on ... but your second quote above had me wondering if there's some bipod and/or attachment combo that I'm not aware of yet.

There is nothing available currently that meets the need, maybe something coming.

As for bipods, etc. The base philosophy is this- “do I require this thing to make this shot”, if the answer is “no”, then that extra thing is just hurting, not helping. I do not require a bipod to make 1,200m shots in the field, therefor carrying one is just hurting me. Whether that is weight, bulk, snagging, hindering other positions, etc.
Furthermore, a significant portion of shots I/we get on animals a bipod wouldn’t work anyways. Sometimes it’s because the snow is too deep and unless it’s a kneeling height it won’t reach the ground. Stacking packs on top of the snow and then a bipod on top of the packs is worse than just using the pack to begin with.

Similarly, the other times prone isn’t an option at all and most events are too quick to use a tripod. So I have this rail attached to the rifle to use a tripod for one or two of the 50+ shots I or those I’m hunting with have a year on game that a tripod could be used for, and for other 48 or 49 shots that rail is hurting. Whether weight, carry comfort, dragging on other rests, etc. So then the question is “do I require a tripod to make a sitting shot?” If the answer is “no”, then it’s not helping. And the answer is no, sitting shots can be made extremely well from crossed hiking sticks or the top of the spotting scope tripod with the scope turned sideways (that I’m already carrying), and a pack in the rear (that I’m already carrying).

So why would I add extra things if not required for a shot? Tripods aren’t a panacea for sucking at shooting. They are quite finicky to shoot well from especially with lighter weight rifles that have some recoil. It’s takes just as much practice to be good from a tripod as it does from sticks and pack, and the tripod has more chance of “flyers” if you don’t get it just right.
That’s what I’m taking about with PRS. It isn’t competition- if you want to be good at something, you must compete. It’s that PRS is using 30-40lb 6mm Dashers, setup a specific way that all but eliminates the human input; and then people are taking that and believing those lessons, applications apply to a 6 to 12lb 6.5cm, 7PRC, 300mags, etc. It doesn’t.

If there were a way to have a system to use a tripod that in no way hampered the use everywhere else, I would have and use it.

 

[Keith Stone]

 

[Formidilosus]

View attachment 577795

I have and do shoot PRS. PRS isn’t field shooting or hunting.

 

[Keith Stone]

I have and do shoot PRS. PRS isn’t field shooting or hunting.

Agreed. The broad stroke statements painting everyone that shoots prs in a certain light was a bit annoying though. If you want to shoot off of a tree limb instead of a wobbly barricade more power to ya. If you want to shoot a 6lb 300 win mag in a comp or hump a 25lb 6br in the backcountry, awesome. It’s all shooting in awkward positions and learning how to improve.

 

[Wrench]

Nothing in its current form. There may be an option in the future.





The forend spigot makes bipod use fine, but doesn’t allow anything for a tripod.





The first thing is Arca doesn’t feel good to carry whether metal or not. The second, is that for most carbon Arca might be ok, I highly doubt it will stand up to legit hard use.





There is nothing available currently that meets the need, maybe something coming.

As for bipods, etc. The base philosophy is this- “do I require this thing to make this shot”, if the answer is “no”, then that extra thing is just hurting, not helping. I do not require a bipod to make 1,200m shots in the field, therefor carrying one is just hurting me. Whether that is weight, bulk, snagging, hindering other positions, etc.
Furthermore, a significant portion of shots I/we get on animals a bipod wouldn’t work anyways. Sometimes it’s because the snow is too deep and unless it’s a kneeling height it won’t reach the ground. Stacking packs on top of the snow and then a bipod on top of the packs is worse than just using the pack to begin with.

Similarly, the other times prone isn’t an option at all and most events are too quick to use a tripod. So I have this rail attached to the rifle to use a tripod for one or two of the 50+ shots I or those I’m hunting with have a year on game that a tripod could be used for, and for other 48 or 49 shots that rail is hurting. Whether weight, carry comfort, dragging on other rests, etc. So then the question is “do I require a tripod to make a sitting shot?” If the answer is “no”, then it’s not helping. And the answer is no, sitting shots can be made extremely well from crossed hiking sticks or the top of the spotting scope tripod with the scope turned sideways (that I’m already carrying), and a pack in the rear (that I’m already carrying).

So why would I add extra things if not required for a shot? Tripods aren’t a panacea for sucking at shooting. They are quite finicky to shoot well from especially with lighter weight rifles that have some recoil. It’s takes just as much practice to be good from a tripod as it does from sticks and pack, and the tripod has more chance of “flyers” if you don’t get it just right.
That’s what I’m taking about with PRS. It isn’t competition- if you want to be good at something, you must compete. It’s that PRS is using 30-40lb 6mm Dashers, setup a specific way that all but eliminates the human input; and then people are taking that and believing those lessons, applications apply to a 6 to 12lb 6.5cm, 7PRC, 300mags, etc. It doesn’t.

If there were a way to have a system to use a tripod that in no way hampered the use everywhere else, I would have and use it.

I have killed more animals laid over my backpack than via bipod for sure. Aside from the fact that it works on any terrain and offers 3 heights in a blink, I find the recoil behavior to be more consistent for me. I don't hang up on brush or pound my hand upon recoil.
I'd rather give the weight to a silky saw to clear a shot path than haul a bipod.

 

[Formidilosus]

Agreed. The broad stroke statements painting everyone that shoots prs in a certain light was a bit annoying though. If you want to shoot off of a tree limb instead of a wobbly barricade more power to ya. If you want to shoot a 6lb 300 win mag in a comp or hump a 25lb 6br in the backcountry, awesome. It’s all shooting in awkward positions and learning how to improve.

I didn’t broad strokes anything. If you prefer barricade benchrest setups, ok great. I’m not writing to you. I’m writing a counter point for information for the vast majority that don’t know any better and are getting pushed advertising.

PRS has dominated every facet of “precision” shooting, from hunting to military for a few years now. Every scope, every chassis, every rifle, every tripod, bipod, etc is being built for or by PRS shooters and being marketed as the solution for everyone else. It isn’t. What makes a good PRS reticle makes a terrible field reticle. What makes a great PRS chassis makes a terrible field chassis. Would a great pack for PRS make a great pack for backcountry hunting?

The vast majority of the hunting community is getting inundated with PRS specific items, almost always marketed by people that have extremely limited or no backpack hunting experience at all. Most of the items that help in PRS, are specific to PRS and are a hindrance everywhere else.

In kind, what makes a good CQB rifle, makes a terrible long range field rifle.



This person started with this rifle a few weeks ago, believing it was awesome for hunting and probably couldn’t have convinced him it wasn’t the best thing available. Five days later, after shooting in the exact positions and places that we kill dozens of elk in from 50 yards to past 1,200 yards, he wanted something very different for hunting.





There is nothing “wrong” with the rifle- it’s good components, and great machining/smithing. The issue is that it isn’t a field rifle- it’s the wrong tool for the job.


This isn’t a preference or a “I like, I think, I feel”. It’s what is constantly observed. Alone I average four days a week shooting in the mountains. I see and shoot with dozens of different people a year in field conditions. I average more than 25 big games animals killed a year, from contact to very long range; yet without saying a word about it, no one wants their chassis rifle after spending a month shooting and hunting in the winter with us. As in no one. I love “PRS” rifles and setup for shooting at the range… and absolutely loath them in the field.

It starts with taping the hell out of the rifle with vet wrap to make it comfortable to carry and use, then they tape all the spots that snag, then they add more tape. It almost always ends up with them buying a KRG Bravo to replace the chassis or buying a new rifle. And the most common statement is to the effect of- “why in the f**k do people think these rifles are so awesome”. They believe they are so awesome because they spend their time on a contrived range, not in the field killing things.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have killed more animals laid over my backpack than via bipod for sure. Aside from the fact that it works on any terrain and offers 3 heights in a blink, I find the recoil behavior to be more consistent for me. I don't hang up on brush or pound my hand upon recoil.
I'd rather give the weight to a silky saw to clear a shot path than haul a bipod.

Exactly. Bipods are great and on specific, dedicated long range rifles I will use them. On general purpose 0-1,200 yards guns? No.

 

[Formidilosus]

I like the flat bottomed vert grip stuff for prone work,

What do you mean “flat bottomed vert grip”? Trying picture what you are referring to.

 

[Wrench]

What do you mean “flat bottomed vert grip”? Trying picture what you are referring to.

I don't shoot vertical grip rigs offhand well. I like a more open grip angle. I do like the recoil characteristics of stocks with surfaces to ride bags and recoil level.

 

[Formidilosus]

It’s all shooting in awkward positions and learning how to improve.

Yes and no. How does shooting a 30+ pound 6 dasher, with lead weights added and changed out between stages to make it balance perfectly so that I have basically no influence on the guns positioning, a multi pound Game Changer Bag, multiple nine pound tripods pre staged so I can just move from one to the next, shooting what amounts to free recoil, and a reticle that is near totally invisible below 8-10x and lower light, really applicable to backcountry hunting?


Again, this isn’t hating PRS/NRL. They are sports that are fun, and can help somewhat with wind calls. However, they are so sport specialized, that almost all equipment and gear that is needed to be competitive, has no applicability to field shooting.

 

[Formidilosus]

I don't shoot vertical grip rigs offhand well. I like a more open grip angle. I do like the recoil characteristics of stocks with surfaces to ride bags and recoil level.

Ah. Ok, so “vertical” like this-



Or vertical like this-






An HTG with a negative comb, and more parallel toe would be great.

 

[Keith Stone]

I didn’t broad strokes anything. If you prefer barricade benchrest setups, ok great. I’m not writing to you. I’m writing a counter point for information for the vast majority that don’t know any better and are getting pushed advertising.

PRS has dominated every facet of “precision” shooting, from hunting to military for a few years now. Every scope, every chassis, every rifle, every tripod, bipod, etc is being built for or by PRS shooters and being marketed as the solution for everyone else. It isn’t. What makes a good PRS reticle makes a terrible field reticle. What makes a great PRS chassis makes a terrible field chassis. Would a great pack for PRS make a great pack for backcountry hunting?

The vast majority of the hunting community is getting inundated with PRS specific items, almost always marketed by people that have extremely limited or no backpack hunting experience at all. Most of the items that help in PRS, are specific to PRS and are a hindrance everywhere else.

In kind, what makes a good CQB rifle, makes a terrible long range field rifle.



This person started with this rifle a few weeks ago, believing it was awesome for hunting and probably couldn’t have convinced him it wasn’t the best thing available. Five days later, after shooting in the exact positions and places that we kill dozens of elk in from 50 yards to past 1,200 yards, he wanted something very different for hunting.

View attachment 577801

View attachment 577802

There is nothing “wrong” with the rifle- it’s good components, and great machining/smithing. The issue is that it isn’t a field rifle- it’s the wrong tool for the job.


This isn’t a preference or a “I like, I think, I feel”. It’s what is constantly observed. Alone I average four days a week shooting in the mountains. I see and shoot with dozens of different people a year in field conditions. I average more than 25 big games animals killed a year, from contact to very long range; yet without saying a word about it, no one wants their chassis rifle after spending a month shooting and hunting in the winter with us. As in no one. I love “PRS” rifles and setup for shooting at the range… and absolutely loath them in the field.

It starts with taping the hell out of the rifle with vet wrap to make it comfortable to carry and use, then they tape all the spots that snag, then they add more tape. It almost always ends up with them buying a KRG Bravo to replace the chassis or buying a new rifle. And the most common statement is to the effect of- “why in the f**k do people think these rifles are so awesome”. They believe they are so awesome because they spend their time on a contrived range, not in the field killing things.

TLDR, you heard of Theis? You remind me of him.

 

[Formidilosus]

TLDR, you heard of Theis? You remind me of him.

I’m giving feedback and thoughts based on direct observed and experienced situations. They are logical and consistent. Why aren’t you? Is your arguments based on memes, or can you explain to me where I am incorrect?



Can you share your experience of killing animals backpack hunting from deserts, to woods, to mountains, and snow with the rifle in your profile picture? How much have you used it backpack hunting? How many animals, and what were your thoughts?

 

[Antares]

Form, you think there’s any chance Gunwerks will ever offer their stocks in a Tikka inlet? What would you think about that combo if they did?

 

[2-Stix]

Formidilosus is a very accurate resource, that not all follow. Ask him questions and do what you want with the info. His info has made big directional changes in my approach to setting up a rifle. Bullet construction, drop evaluations...etc...

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, you think there’s any chance Gunwerks will ever offer their stocks in a Tikka inlet? What would you think about that combo if they did?

No. If they did I would have one on every Tikka I own.

 

[Keith Stone]

I’m giving feedback and thoughts based on direct observed and experienced situations. They are logical and consistent. Why aren’t you? Is your arguments based on memes, or can you explain to me where I am incorrect?



Can you share your experience of killing animals backpack hunting from deserts, to woods, to mountains, and snow with the rifle in your profile picture? How much have you used it backpack hunting? How many animals, and what were your thoughts?

Well let’s not stop there let’s see some pics from you at the prs finale? I mean if you’re the expert of all things field and comp you should be the guy to say what works in one vs the other.

If you’re just another guy getting beat by guys running 50lb dashers and changing out lead weights between stages then you should stay in your lane.