so the ammunition manufacturers are not at fault for the higher prices

[Rob5589]

 

[TheGDog]

This is due to a combo of things, but primarily the covid shutdowns, BLM, and the election of Biden.

Covid started the mess by forcing the shutdown of production, from manufacturing to the production of raw materials. Add in the coupled effect of millions of first time gun buyers (all of our local gun stores say they were inundated with first time gun buyers over the last year) the ammunition cannot catch up and is falling further behind.

Biden being elected was the final nail in the coffin, because demand is increased even further like when Obama was elected.

My guess is that it will be a year or two before things "level out"...maybe even longer.

While I agree that these factors certainly created this orchestration of the right timing of events for this to happen... money on the table is still money of the table!

If you were an ammo manufacturer... you'd be all over this and bumping up production round the clock! Making your investors all kindsa happy. Money talks and BS walks. And now there's even more money there for the taking!

THAT is why I have a strong feeling there is some "governmental help" in keeping this shortage the way it currently is. There is no shortage of demand. And they certainly don't have a shortage of incoming revenue stream, right? So why no uptick in production to cash-in, eh? Would be EASY to throw-in a graveyard shift! And you can't tell me they aren't getting their raw materials. If they were, you know DAMN WELL the govt would instruct them to make ammo for THEM first... then if anything is LEFT... MAYBE they'd allow them to sell it.

So.. THAT... is why I believe it's a little more than just these certain conditions behind it. I believe these conditions provide an excuse of sorts.. a plausible deniability that sounds like it can't be questioned, so the politicos are rollin' with it.

I mean seriously? Why in the hell would some CEO feel compelled to even care about making a video where he tries to "prove" to you that they're "working hard" to meet the demand, etc. They KNOW the demand won't go away! They have nothing to prove to anybody. There is no good reason for them to feel compelled to make such a video statement. Somebody put'em up to it. To give plausible deniability to the notion that it is anything other than these certain conditions creating a series of unfortunate events screwing things up.

This is just a buncha BS they're doing until they can cram some unjust anti-2A legislation down all our throats that will no doubt also add significant BS into the process of buying reloading components now too. Bet my left nut on it. ESPECIALLY with HER Evil dumb butt in there!

 

[z987k]

While I agree that these factors certainly created this orchestration of the right timing of events for this to happen... money on the table is still money of the table!

If you were an ammo manufacturer... you'd be all over this and bumping up production round the clock! Making your investors all kindsa happy. Money talks and BS walks. And now there's even more money there for the taking!

THAT is why I have a strong feeling there is some "governmental help" in keeping this shortage the way it currently is. There is no shortage of demand. And they certainly don't have a shortage of incoming revenue stream, right? So why no uptick in production to cash-in, eh? Would be EASY to throw-in a graveyard shift! And you can't tell me they aren't getting their raw materials. If they were, you know DAMN WELL the govt would instruct them to make ammo for THEM first... then if anything is LEFT... MAYBE they'd allow them to sell it.

So.. THAT... is why I believe it's a little more than just these certain conditions behind it. I believe these conditions provide an excuse of sorts.. a plausible deniability that sounds like it can't be questioned, so the politicos are rollin' with it.

I mean seriously? Why in the hell would some CEO feel compelled to even care about making a video where he tries to "prove" to you that they're "working hard" to meet the demand, etc. They KNOW the demand won't go away! They have nothing to prove to anybody. There is no good reason for them to feel compelled to make such a video statement. Somebody put'em up to it. To give plausible deniability to the notion that it is anything other than these certain conditions creating a series of unfortunate events screwing things up.

This is just a buncha BS they're doing until they can cram some unjust anti-2A legislation down all our throats that will no doubt also add significant BS into the process of buying reloading components now too. Bet my left nut on it. ESPECIALLY with HER Evil dumb butt in there!

They have started the extra shift. They produced more last year than they ever have. Demand is that high. They need more capacity, but they're rightly afraid if they do that, by the time it's up and running they'll be looking at another 2017 and a bankruptcy due spending capital on something that is no longer needed.

For the idiots that think there's some conspiracy to deprive you of hunting ammo so you can't go commit sedition, you don't need 4000 rounds to do that. You need like 1 mag. It's unlikely you'd live long enough to even expend that one.

 

[mtwarden]

Back to my original post- the fact the folks are willing to pay $60/box for hunting ammo obviously hasn't been lost manufacturers. I was hoping (as my first captain said- hope is not a course of action!) that once the frenzy was over we would go back to quasi normal pricing. That isn't going to happen, so I'll have to come to terms with $3 rounds.

 

[WCB]

While I agree that these factors certainly created this orchestration of the right timing of events for this to happen... money on the table is still money of the table!

If you were an ammo manufacturer... you'd be all over this and bumping up production round the clock! Making your investors all kindsa happy. Money talks and BS walks. And now there's even more money there for the taking!

THAT is why I have a strong feeling there is some "governmental help" in keeping this shortage the way it currently is. There is no shortage of demand. And they certainly don't have a shortage of incoming revenue stream, right? So why no uptick in production to cash-in, eh? Would be EASY to throw-in a graveyard shift! And you can't tell me they aren't getting their raw materials. If they were, you know DAMN WELL the govt would instruct them to make ammo for THEM first... then if anything is LEFT... MAYBE they'd allow them to sell it.

So.. THAT... is why I believe it's a little more than just these certain conditions behind it. I believe these conditions provide an excuse of sorts.. a plausible deniability that sounds like it can't be questioned, so the politicos are rollin' with it.

I mean seriously? Why in the hell would some CEO feel compelled to even care about making a video where he tries to "prove" to you that they're "working hard" to meet the demand, etc. They KNOW the demand won't go away! They have nothing to prove to anybody. There is no good reason for them to feel compelled to make such a video statement. Somebody put'em up to it. To give plausible deniability to the notion that it is anything other than these certain conditions creating a series of unfortunate events screwing things up.

This is just a buncha BS they're doing until they can cram some unjust anti-2A legislation down all our throats that will no doubt also add significant BS into the process of buying reloading components now too. Bet my left nut on it. ESPECIALLY with HER Evil dumb butt in there!

Obviously you have zero idea what you are talking about. Yeah companies with thousands of workers and are publicly traded are lying to you about working 24-7. How about you drive to one of the facilities and take a gander at the parking lots at night.....guess whos vehicles are parked there at midnight....that's right...graveyard shift. OH yeah I forgot you probably think every employee was paid hush money and signed non-disclosure contracts with Feds to play along like the are running at full capacity...when really everyone is play hopscotch while machines are idol and black helicopters are landing on the roof. And those cars....they are props.

Maybe the CEO made a video because of people like you keep calling in and harassing the company by asking "where is all the ammo? why don't you make more" then when told the truth...you bitch about government conspiracies and try to give ammunition manufacturing advice even though you have no idea what you are talking about.

You can look up the government contracts...drop in the bucket compared to overall production. Not saying I trust the government at all but they are definitely are not making deals with ammunition companies to slow down ammunition production.

 

[Reburn]

Yeah companies with thousands of workers and are publicly traded are lying to you about working 24-7. How about you drive to one of the facilities and take a gander at the parking lots at night.....guess whos vehicles are parked there at midnight....that's right...graveyard shift. OH yeah I forgot you probably think every employee was paid hush money and signed non-disclosure contracts with Feds to play along like the are running at full capacity...when really everyone is play hopscotch while machines are idol and black helicopters are landing on the roof. And those cars....they are props.

Dont confuse us with logic.

Yall want the ammo shortage to stop. Stop buying. Stop buying on gun broker for scalper prices. Stop buying at your local gun store. Stop buying online. If these guys that stand in front of cabelas for 2 hours cant sell on gun broker for double their money they will stop buying every box that hits the shelves. If your gun store cant move ammo at the double prices they have listed they will drop the prices. Same with midway. We have become our own worst enemy again.

 

[wyosam]

Dont confuse us with logic.

Yall want the ammo shortage to stop. Stop buying. Stop buying on gun broker for scalper prices. Stop buying at your local gun store. Stop buying online. If these guys that stand in front of cabelas for 2 hours cant sell on gun broker for double their money they will stop buying every box that hits the shelves. If your gun store cant move ammo at the double prices they have listed they will drop the prices. Same with midway. We have become our own worst enemy again.

Yep. The panic is about all that is feeding it right now. People are paying ridiculous prices for ammo and components that are going on top of a giant pile. People are buying up powders they have no use for, just because they happen to show up in stock somewhere. People are panicking because the shelves are bare, but the shelves are bare because people are panicking.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[5MilesBack]

How much of ammunition components are made outside the US? The US dollar is weak in large part due to COVID related money supply expansion outpacing most other countrues, which makes foreign-sourced goods more expensive. It is easy to overlook obvious but uncontroversial reasons.

Oh, even that part is controversial. The more money we print, the more we go into debt as a nation, and the higher the government wants to "force" a minimum wage........the weaker the dollar will get. It's not sustainable.

 

[WCB]

Guys buying at stupid prices at gun shows and off gun broker.....

 

[z987k]

Oh, even that part is controversial. The more money we print, the more we go into debt as a nation, and the higher the government wants to "force" a minimum wage........the weaker the dollar will get. It's not sustainable.

The dollar isn't appreciably weaker today that it was a year ago. Take a gander at the forex. It's down 12 cents to the RMB.

 

[CorbLand]

Man wouldn't it just be a wonderful world if a company could flip a switch and double output over night?

My favorite thing about conspiracy theorists is that they live so far in la la land that they forget reality even
exists.


I can see the phone call now.

Biden calling Hornady - Hey, so as you know I got elected and I plan to pass some major gun control laws in the next year.
Hornady Execuative - Ok
Biden - here is what I am going to need you to do, I know you all make a living from people buying your ammo, have donated money to 2nd amendment causes and for all rights and purposes, your business is fully dependent on the 2nd amendment.
Hornady - Ok
Biden - Yea, I am going to need you to stifle production so joe blow cant get his 243 ammo until I can get these laws passed. After those laws are passed, demand for you product will drop by 50% and continue to decrease from here on out until your business is nonexistent.
Hornady - ******* brilliant. We are in. Here is Noslers number and numbers to the other 1000 ammo producing companies. By the way, don't worry every single one of them will keep their mouths shut about this phone call.

 

[z987k]

Man wouldn't it just be a wonderful world if a company could flip a switch and double output over night?

My favorite thing about conspiracy theorists is that they live so far in la la land that they forget reality even
exists.


I can see the phone call now.

Biden calling Hornady - Hey, so as you know I got elected and I plan to pass some major gun control laws in the next year.
Hornady Execuative - Ok
Biden - here is what I am going to need you to do, I know you all make a living from people buying your ammo, have donated money to 2nd amendment causes and for all rights and purposes, your business is fully dependent on the 2nd amendment.
Hornady - Ok
Biden - Yea, I am going to need you to stifle production so joe blow cant get his 243 ammo until I can get these laws passed. After those laws are passed, demand for you product will drop by 50% and continue to decrease from here on out until your business is nonexistent.
Hornady - ******* brilliant. We are in. Here is Noslers number and numbers to the other 1000 ammo producing companies. By the way, don't worry every single one of them will keep their mouths shut about this phone call.

If you told me 6 months ago, a certain someone would make a phone call to the secretary of a state asking them to commit a crime with them, I've thought you were nuts to.
But that lead balloon floated about as well as your hypothetical scenario probably would.

 

[CorbLand]

View attachment 263175

If you told me 6 months ago, a certain someone would make a phone call to the secretary of a state asking them to commit a crime with them, I've thought you were nuts to.
But that lead balloon floated about as well as your hypothetical scenario probably would.

To be fair, its still about the dumbest thing I have heard since someone told me Trump was going to get an election overturned.

 

[5MilesBack]

The dollar isn't appreciably weaker today that it was a year ago.

Keep watching........

 

[5MilesBack]

If you told me 6 months ago, a certain someone would make a phone call to the secretary of a state asking them to commit a crime with them, I've thought you were nuts to.

So now it's a crime to "find 10k fraudulent votes"? That's what someone asked him to do.

 

[fwafwow]

I'm surprised no one is blaming MeatEater

 

[Trial153]

I'm surprised no one is blaming MeatEater

Actually its BHAs fault. I would like to know where they stand on the ammo crisis. Why arent they helping flight this?

 

[Kimber7man]

It's likely that very few on this hunting forum are buying at gunbroker prices and hoarding ammo (mine was lost in the boating accident last summer...)

So it's obvious we need to remember rule #1:

There's a sucker born every minute....

 

[TheGDog]

WCB, I sincerely in my heart of hearts wish and hope that you are right and that this is merely the economics of how recent events have unfolded being solely to blame. I really and truly do hope that's the case. Live and learn from it, and prepare better in the future.

However... problem is... I've walked this Earth now for more than Half a Century. And in the last 6 years I've seen some amazingly unbelievable stupendously illogical sh*t come to pass that I'd have never thought was possible before. That... and being a programmer has taught me that sometimes you need to look at the problem completely differently than what your natural inclination might lean you towards. That sometimes it just might work better if you look at it from the angle of the Tail wagging the Dog type of thing and see how that might work.

With THAT thought in mind... I put myself in the position of Biden, or more correctly whomever is funding and propping him up in there. I think about their goals. I think about what are the impediments to those goals. And if my crafty-@$$ was in that same spot, what might *I* do to get around all those pesky rules and checks-and-balances. In that mind-frame I see this time of the big scary can't-be-totally-proved-invisible-threat that grants me the free license to really really push the boundaries of my fanatical power-grab... and how I might capitalize on it to achieve my lofty end goals. In this instance, possibly delaying things for a lil bit until my packed Senate and House lets me push thru some stuff. I know it totally sounds highly improbable as all get-out. I totally get that. But part of being prepared as a coder is thinking about all possible things that could go wrong ahead of time... BEFORE they go wrong.. and implementing solutions to either prevent, or gracefully deal with them. So in this instance... I kinda just have to allow myself to role with the thought of the greed for that power being soo great, and folks with deep pockets standing to make even soo much more money if they play this right... what might they do or try to get away with since they have the ability to use this event as a giant smokescreen? Just like they used C19 to force Mail-in Ballots in a big way, ya feel what I'm saying here? Highly unlikely IS NOT the same as impossible. For DAMN sure programming, and in general the dark underhanded tendencies of human nature, has taught me that much.

 

[WCB]

WCB, I sincerely in my heart of hearts wish and hope that you are right and that this is merely the economics of how recent events have unfolded being solely to blame. I really and truly do hope that's the case. Live and learn from it, and prepare better in the future.

However... problem is... I've walked this Earth now for more than Half a Century. And in the last 6 years I've seen some amazingly unbelievable stupendously illogical sh*t come to pass that I'd have never thought was possible before. That... and being a programmer has taught me that sometimes you need to look at the problem completely differently than what your natural inclination might lean you towards. That sometimes it just might work better if you look at it from the angle of the Tail wagging the Dog type of thing and see how that might work.

With THAT thought in mind... I put myself in the position of Biden, or more correctly whomever is funding and propping him up in there. I think about their goals. I think about what are the impediments to those goals. And if my crafty-@$$ was in that same spot, what might *I* do to get around all those pesky rules and checks-and-balances. In that mind-frame I see this time of the big scary can't-be-totally-proved-invisible-threat that grants me the free license to really really push the boundaries of my fanatical power-grab... and how I might capitalize on it to achieve my lofty end goals. In this instance, possibly delaying things for a lil bit until my packed Senate and House lets me push thru some stuff. I know it totally sounds highly improbable as all get-out. I totally get that. But part of being prepared as a coder is thinking about all possible things that could go wrong ahead of time... BEFORE they go wrong.. and implementing solutions to either prevent, or gracefully deal with them. So in this instance... I kinda just have to allow myself to role with the thought of the greed for that power being soo great, and folks with deep pockets standing to make even soo much more money if they play this right... what might they do or try to get away with since they have the ability to use this event as a giant smokescreen? Just like they used C19 to force Mail-in Ballots in a big way, ya feel what I'm saying here? Highly unlikely IS NOT the same as impossible. For DAMN sure programming, and in general the dark underhanded tendencies of human nature, has taught me that much.

Again, I don't trust most of the government.... I work in the industry we are speaking about and can tell you it is a fact there are no deals between manufacturers and the government or people with deep pockets to slow production. They would be doing a horrible job as most manufactures have already produced and shipped out more ammo than they ever have and continue to do so.

If you want to blame the government go ahead....if you want to blame stock pile d-bags and retired guys scooping everything up and selling for double or triple the price...fine by me. Don't pile on or try to throw the American manufacturers and workers under the bus by lumping them into conspiracies with the government working against the 2nd A and the general public.