so the ammunition manufacturers are not at fault for the higher prices

[Gorp2007]

Do you think gunbroker is creating a false market? As in people buying stuff from retailers to sell for higher not to use it.

It's not a false market, it's a secondary market created by the fact that current manufacturer and retailer pricing doesn't reflect the true value of the goods they're selling. If retailers increased their pricing it would drive down the margins for the gunbroker resellers and reduce this secondary market. But then everyone and their brother would get on their favorite form of social media and complain about retailers responding rationally to changes in the free market. As long as demand stays high, there will only be three options: 1) retailers do nothing and everything ends up on the secondary market being sold by people with the time and capital to stake out every Walmart and Scheels in North America, 2) retailers increase their prices to match demand, or 3) retailers institute purchasing limits to reduce the quantity that individuals can buy in an effort to reduce reselling on the secondary market.

In any of those three scenarios, everyone complains loudly and often. At least with option 1 they're generally not complaining about the retailers themselves. Which is why most retailers are sticking with option 1 and only very slowly introducing option 2.

 

[Laramie]

The raw cost of many materials are going up very quickly. I am in manufacturing and purchase raw metals, plastics, and other materials. In the last 6 weeks we have seen increases on almost everything- some of which are over 100% increase. This is not exclusive to the USA- it's happening worldwide.

 

[mtwarden]

If MSRP goes up by the manufacturer, that becomes the new baseline and won't go down later. Others, later in the supply chain to the store, are adding additional costs (profits) currently.

this is exactly my worry (and the purpose of my post- I watched it suddenly happen at Nosler). I can wait for the frenzy to die down, I’m patient. but if manufacturers up the price significantly, then the likelihood of it ever going to back to quasi reasonable is very low

 

[Trial153]

Irrationality and ignorance that leads to panic buying toss in a
large smattering of opportunism and greed and this is what you get.
Pretty hard to be sympathetic to largly self induced situation.

 

[5MilesBack]

this is exactly my worry (and the purpose of my post- I watched it suddenly happen at Nosler). I can wait for the frenzy to die down, I’m patient. but if manufacturers up the price significantly, then the likelihood of it ever going to back to quasi reasonable is very low

Which is one reason why people reload their own ammo.........and stockpile components like powder, brass, primers, and projectiles.

When was the last time we ever saw the average normal pricing of any of those things GO DOWN? The last time I bought Nosler 175gr Partitions was 2005 and I paid $14/50. So if you buy and hold you either have a lifetime supply, or you are prepared to sell in times like these at high prices and then buy it back at lower prices when the demand subsides, to resupply your stockpile. Both of which many guys are apparently offended with and incessantly complaining about. But that's what you have to do to "be prepared".

 

[Lawnboi]

Which is one reason why people reload their own ammo.........and stockpile components like powder, brass, primers, and projectiles.

When was the last time we ever saw the average normal pricing of any of those things GO DOWN? The last time I bought Nosler 175gr Partitions was 2005 and I paid $14/50. So if you buy and hold you either have a lifetime supply, or you are prepared to sell in times like these at high prices and then buy it back at lower prices when the demand subsides, to resupply your stockpile. Both of which many guys are apparently offended with and incessantly complaining about. But that's what you have to do to "be prepared".

In 2005 I wasn’t even in high school.

Im new to reloading, new to competitive shooting, and in most respects new to shooting (more than a couple boxes a year)

I didnt/don’t have the capital to be as prepared as I’d like to be. Luckily I have a good pile, and am sharing my ability to load with close friends, who also were unprepared.

I read the writing on the wall and put what I could into powder and primers.... but never did I think hunting bullets would be as hard or harder to find than primers.

When this calms down I’ll be buying enough. So will my close hunting buddies who never would have if this wasn’t happening.

Point is not everyone can just be prepared. As it slows down I see more than just competitive shooters and nutcases really stocking up, which I’m guessing will continue to fan this flame for another year.

 

[TheGDog]

I have a very strong hunch the ammo shortage is a manufactured dilemma.... on purpose... to dissuade the "spirited" among us from attempting to storm the capitol. Just my $.02

That... and I think they're attempting to bide their time and prevent massive stockpiling from happening until they can enact whatever manner of lunacy they hope to enact re: legislation. I'd bet my left nut on it.

 

[whaack]

Scarcity
Inflation
Demand
Supply
Unlimited needs n wants fueled by fear
There’s no free lunch.

Econ 101.

The market is actually gun broker

Sucks balls.


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Yep. Pretty simple really and it will be this way for at least a couple more years. Biden term will keep prices high snd availability scarce.


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[JakeSCH]

This is due to a combo of things, but primarily the covid shutdowns, BLM, and the election of Biden.

Covid started the mess by forcing the shutdown of production, from manufacturing to the production of raw materials. Add in the coupled effect of millions of first time gun buyers (all of our local gun stores say they were inundated with first time gun buyers over the last year) the ammunition cannot catch up and is falling further behind.

Biden being elected was the final nail in the coffin, because demand is increased even further like when Obama was elected.

My guess is that it will be a year or two before things "level out"...maybe even longer.

 

[CorbLand]

this is exactly my worry (and the purpose of my post- I watched it suddenly happen at Nosler). I can wait for the frenzy to die down, I’m patient. but if manufacturers up the price significantly, then the likelihood of it ever going to back to quasi reasonable is very low

A free market should take care of that. If Nolser keeps their pricing up, Hornady should drop theirs to grab market share. That is the beauty of a free market. If someone sells something to much, another business should come in and push pricing down.

I do feel bad for the younger generation that is trying to get started in todays world with everything at inflated pricing. Hold strong and things will balance out. Save your money at this point and be prepared to take advantage of the next dip.

 

[Rob5589]

It is a supply issue. In order for a business to turn a profit they have to sell things. If they have nothing to sell, no profits. If they only receive half of what they need to sell, they will increase the price to compensate for the difference. It's pretty simple really.

People need to stop taking it personally. A business needs to pay employees, rent, insurance, etc, etc, etc. They can't do that if they have no product to sell.

 

[ElPollo]

I have a very strong hunch the ammo shortage is a manufactured dilemma.... on purpose... to dissuade the "spirited" among us from attempting to storm the capitol. Just my $.02

That... and I think they're attempting to bide their time and prevent massive stockpiling from happening until they can enact whatever manner of lunacy they hope to enact re: legislation. I'd bet my left nut on it.

Who are "they"? You are not an Occam's Razor sorta guy, are you? It means that the simplest answer is generally the most likely one. The world could do with a few less conspiracy theories. It's those theories that are actually driving a lot of the panic buying. Like I said, consider going fishing. Lowers the stress and blood pressure. Good for you.

 

[CorbLand]

I have a very strong hunch the ammo shortage is a manufactured dilemma.... on purpose... to dissuade the "spirited" among us from attempting to storm the capitol. Just my $.02

That... and I think they're attempting to bide their time and prevent massive stockpiling from happening until they can enact whatever manner of lunacy they hope to enact re: legislation. I'd bet my left nut on it.

Yep because this shortage just happened since Biden got into office. Before January 20th, 2021 the shelves were stocked full of ammo. In 21 days Biden has caused 8 million new gun owners, a 1000% increase in ammo sales, and persuaded all ammo manufactures to decrease supply all so the American people cant buy it.

For the love of all that is holy.

 

[ElPollo]

I make it a practice to buy a bit of extra ammo before elections, but it's not because I expect the world to end. I do it because most of us lose track of the fact that most politics is just horseshit spouted for ratings that generally results in nothing. We shouldn't be blaming politics, or manufacturers, or dealers, or God forbid new gun owners for the ammo shortage and high prices. We should be blaming ourselves.

Oh, and I know a guy with a barn full of toilet paper that he would gladly trade for some 5.56.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

The local Cabelas here has a total of one box of centerfire ammo in stock. And it's a $350 box of 470 nitro brass solids.

Hate to say this, but prices will only go down when we all quit buying and quit panicking. I think it's funny that everyone is always so pessimistic about the fact that government never accomplishes anything. But then everytime we get a democratic president, the same people expect the government to suddenly be able to pass and implement legislation that would utterly halt a multi-billion dollar industry and confiscate a 100 million firearms from private citizens. It doesn't work that way. Our governmental system is so broken that they can hardly pass any sort of bill at all. We all just need to take a breath, close the gunbroker browser window, turn the computer off, and go fishing or camping for a while until everything calms down.

Best damn post of this thread or any other thread. I totally agree. Let's go fishing. Tired of these threads and the BS that comes out of the worry worts.

 

[Rob5589]

The local Cabelas here has a total of one box of centerfire ammo in stock. And it's a $350 box of 470 nitro brass solids.

Hate to say this, but prices will only go down when we all quit buying and quit panicking. I think it's funny that everyone is always so pessimistic about the fact that government never accomplishes anything. But then everytime we get a democratic president, the same people expect the government to suddenly be able to pass and implement legislation that would utterly halt a multi-billion dollar industry and confiscate a 100 million firearms from private citizens. It doesn't work that way. Our governmental system is so broken that they can hardly pass any sort of bill at all. We all just need to take a breath, close the gunbroker browser window, turn the computer off, and go fishing or camping for a while until everything calms down.

Exactly

 

[CorbLand]

It is a supply issue. In order for a business to turn a profit they have to sell things. If they have nothing to sell, no profits. If they only receive half of what they need to sell, they will increase the price to compensate for the difference. It's pretty simple really.

People need to stop taking it personally. A business needs to pay employees, rent, insurance, etc, etc, etc. They can't do that if they have no product to sell.

Its more of a demand issue than supply. Supply has stayed consistent for 4 years and all of sudden demand has risen above the supply. Until either demand lowers to meet supply or supply rises to meet demand, nothing will change. Cant have one without the other but demand is what has caused the interruption.

A supply issue would mean that demand stayed constant and supply had decreased from normal levels.


I like these threads for once my 20,000 dollar piece of paper that says Economics has paid off.

 

[gbflyer]

Retail is tough.

When there’s a panic buy shelves are wiped out for months sometimes. Empty shelves don’t pay the bills. The retailer will raise prices to curtail the panic buyers somewhat to keep stock. I suspect wholesalers will do the same. Also this free government money floating around doesn’t help much. People that buy quantities of sporting ammo do not “need” that $1200 or $600 stimulus if that’s what they are using it for. They don’t “need” the ammo either but they “want” it. Therefore many will pay the price.

The panic buyers and private profit takers are manufacturing this “crisis”. It’s very inconvenient for our hobby but not a good reason to fall into despair.

 

[JakeSCH]

Its more of a demand issue than supply. Supply has stayed consistent for 4 years and all of sudden demand has risen above the supply. Until either demand lowers to meet supply or supply rises to meet demand, nothing will change. Cant have one without the other but demand is what has caused the interruption.

A supply issue would mean that demand stayed constant and supply had decreased from normal levels.


I like these threads for once my 20,000 dollar piece of paper that says Economics has paid off.

You can't ignore the supply change that was caused by the covid shutdowns. Before demand skyrocketed, there was a backlog due to supply chain being shutdown...I am not sure if supply would have caught up even without the increase in demand.

Toss in the record breaking demand...prices are going to be insane for a while. All that said, fishing sounds good and i'll be shooting my bow more than my rifle this year.

 

[WCB]

The local Cabelas here has a total of one box of centerfire ammo in stock. And it's a $350 box of 470 nitro brass solids.

Hate to say this, but prices will only go down when we all quit buying and quit panicking. I think it's funny that everyone is always so pessimistic about the fact that government never accomplishes anything. But then everytime we get a democratic president, the same people expect the government to suddenly be able to pass and implement legislation that would utterly halt a multi-billion dollar industry and confiscate a 100 million firearms from private citizens. It doesn't work that way. Our governmental system is so broken that they can hardly pass any sort of bill at all. We all just need to take a breath, close the gunbroker browser window, turn the computer off, and go fishing or camping for a while until everything calms down.

Seems the government is doing a pretty good job and trying to halt the oil industry. It doesn't need to outright confiscate but it can definitely make it much harder to do business. Don't get me wrong the situation to me is a bit out of control as far as hoarding and panic buying. However, there is a difference between a Democrat president and a Democratic president.