Shorty Hunting Rifle Chambering?

[madcalfe]

Sadly I live in the Communist Republic of Canada and AR 15s are banned...

Although a straight pull copium platform could be a possibility, I find it unlikely that I could get one below the 3.5lb mark that Im anticipating with the bolt action.

i find it unlikely to even get to 3.5lbs with a bolt rifle...
also isn't minimum barrel length in Canada 18"

 

[Rivisondali]

Good question. I have a 20" version and that is my shortest 7mm-08. I have no information regarding 16" barrels in 7mm-08. I saw a good write-up somewhere on the Internet regarding a guy doing velocity checks with a 6.5 Creedmoor. He started with a 24" barrel and checked velocities as he shortened the barrel by one inch to 16 inches. My recollection is that he found that the cartridge was very forgiving when losing barrel length (from a velocity perspective). No idea if anyone has ever done this with a 7mm-08.

Hodgedon has some "pistol" length reloading data for 6.5, 708 and 308 that utilize a 15" barrel. Thats what Ive been checking out for reference ballistics. Seems like after 18" 6.5cm and 708 start suffering at that barrel length

 

[Rivisondali]

i find it unlikely to even get to 3.5lbs with a bolt rifle...
also isn't minimum barrel length in Canada 18"

Unlikely but possible with enough $$, haha!
Pacific Tool and Gauge Rem 700 DARPA Cut Action with Carbon Fibre Bolt: 16oz, MPI Microlite Stock: 12oz, Magpul Hunter Magwell and MDT 3rd Polymer mag: 3.5oz, Triggertech Special: 3oz, 16" featherweight contour barrel: 24oz, PVA Jetblast Brake: 1.5oz,
Total Weight: 60oz so I guess you are technically correct, I'll probably miss my mark by 4oz, lol!

The 18" barrel limit in Canada is actually a common misperception, even up here. I have several manually actuated firearms that are below 18" barrel length. The limitation only exists for either semi-autos or anything with a folding/telescopic stock.

 

[robtattoo]

Rem 700, 20", Brown's Precision Pound'r stock, Loopy Vx2 2-7x32
All up, 6lb 2oz. & I'm super comfortable with it out to 300yds.
Chop 2-3" off the pointy end & a Ti action & I reckon you'd be in the 5s

.358 win. It's the future. Start em slow & heavy & they keep on truckin'!

 

[Rivisondali]

View attachment 681518
Rem 700, 20", Brown's Precision Pound'r stock, Loopy Vx2 2-7x32
All up, 6lb 2oz. & I'm super comfortable with it out to 300yds.
Chop 2-3" off the pointy end & a Ti action & I reckon you'd be in the 5s

.358 win. It's the future. Start em slow & heavy & they keep on truckin'!

Looking good! Do you happen to know how the weight of your stock? I cant seem to find a ton of info about the Browns. Also whats the recoil like? A few people here have said the 338 Fed is bad in sub 5lb rigs, Id expect the 358 to on par or worse?

 

[robtattoo]

Looking good! Do you happen to know how the weight of your stock? I cant seem to find a ton of info about the Browns. Also whats the recoil like? A few people here have said the 338 Fed is bad in sub 5lb rigs, Id expect the 358 to on par or worse?

16oz for the stock & recoil is nowhere near as bad as you'd expect, although it's not insignificant. It's a much slower impulse than .308 & feels more like a shove than a kick. Way more pleasant than .30-06 in my Tikka.

 

[Marble]

Thanks for the input Marble, my action has a standard bolt face so the SAUMs ans PRCs are off the table unfortunately. The bolt is has custom carbon fibre shank too so it cant easily be switched out. 7-08 and 6.5cm are definitely in contention though!

Look into the 7-08. It's very popular for good reason.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[Rivisondali]

16oz for the stock & recoil is nowhere near as bad as you'd expect, although it's not insignificant. It's a much slower impulse than .308 & feels more like a shove than a kick. Way more pleasant than .30-06 in my Tikka.

Thats actually a great reference point for me as I also have a Tikka in 3006 that I find uncomfortable but manageable to shoot. I also admittedly have the 358 dies because of a hyped up impulse buy, lol. Whats the max range that youve taken an animal with?

 

[robtattoo]

Thats actually a great reference point for me as I also have a Tikka in 3006 that I find uncomfortable but manageable to shoot. I also admittedly have the 358 dies because of a hyped up impulse buy, lol. Whats the max range that youve taken an animal with?

I took a mature Whitetail buck a few years back at 190. No drama at all. Dropped on the spot to a 220gr Speer.
I regularly practice with it out to 500, but 300 is my limit to guarantee a first round hit on a 5" gong.

 

[wildcat33]

I’m loving the long action and magnum suggestions!

 

[turbobrick]

With your constraints I’d probably have to default to 6.5cm. I have done close to what you’re doing (titanium action, cf barrel, cf stock) quite a few years ago, but I used .260 Remington. The 7mm projectile choices weren’t great, so that kept me out of 7-08, and I favored velocity and trajectory so no 308. The 260 was great, but 6.5cm does bring some great advantages to the table. I’d be tempted to look at 6cm and see the velocity delta is enough for it to be viable for elk for you. I’ve been shooting and loading a ton of 6arc lately, and the way 6cm can push those projectiles is really awesome.

 

[100percent]

View attachment 681518
Rem 700, 20", Brown's Precision Pound'r stock, Loopy Vx2 2-7x32
All up, 6lb 2oz. & I'm super comfortable with it out to 300yds.
Chop 2-3" off the pointy end & a Ti action & I reckon you'd be in the 5s

.358 win. It's the future. Start em slow & heavy & they keep on truckin'!

Great looking rig Rob!

 

[JohnJohnson]

above the 1500ftlb and 2000fps threshold

The 1500 ft/lbs threshold is fuddlore and energy is a terrible predictor of terminal performance. Your velocity threshold is dependent on the minimum velocity for the bullet to work though. Which bullet did you have in mind?

 

[Article 4]

I'm building an ultra light weight hunting rifle (targeting 3.5-4lb pre-scoping) and am trying to decide on the caliber to chamber it in. The action is a Rem 700 TI short action with a standard bolt face and I'm planning on a 16" barrel to keep the weight down to a minimum (no suppressor because Canada) and will likely brake it. My current frontrunners are 308 or 338 fed and am looking for input on which of these two cartridges, or any other SA, standard bolt face, that would maximize my elk hunting range. With a 308 I'm expecting approximately 300 yards to stay above the 1500ftlb and 2000fps threshold. With a 338 fed I believe the velocity range would be similar with more energy so not sure if its worth the extra recoil.

Was also looking at the 375 Raptor but it looks like the website is gone and its virtually impossible to find dies, gauges and reamers for it let alone get them into Canada. 358 Win was also considered but seems like the range just isnt there due to the low BC of the bullets and limited bullet availability in Canada.

Thanks everyone!

Edit: 338 fed sounds like a destroyer at 5lb. The more likely options are 308, 708 or 6.5cm

Didnt see anyone ask, do you hand load or factory? If you hand load, are you open to an ai variant cartridge? Love the 338 fed but it does kick a bit. Also a fan of the 7-08 for your needs but it sounds like you want to push bigger lead

If so, have you considered the 308ai? Having a COAL at 2.8 and a bdl mag length for that action at around 2.825, if you wanna hand load you could try a 308 ai and run bigger bullets - stays supersonic out to about 1600 yards depending on load. You can custom throat the freebore and PTG and others make the reamers and will usually have on in stock. Will have plenty of punch for elk and canadian moose and would even trust it on Griz with 210s and 220s at shorter ranges (but if my life depended on it, I would run something like 338 or 375 ideally)
Yes there is more work up front to form unless you can find some ai brass. You might also need to run a 20" bbl to get the ai to run to better FPS but I could argue doing that with the Fed or 7-08 is just barely ok at 16" too. Options are good to have, and this might be a viable one for you

 

[Rivisondali]

The 1500 ft/lbs threshold is fuddlore and energy is a terrible predictor of terminal performance. Your velocity threshold is dependent on the minimum velocity for the bullet to work though. Which bullet did you have in mind?

This is fair but to be safe I usually keep it above both values. I'll likely be using Hornady CX 165 or Bergers Elite Hunter 168. From what I've read, the CX minimum expansion velocity is 2000fps.

 

[Rivisondali]

Didnt see anyone ask, do you hand load or factory? If you hand load, are you open to an ai variant cartridge?

I am a beginner hand loader and have looked at the ai variants of the 708 and 308. From what I understand they offer pretty minimal performance increases in the short action platforms. Between that and the difficulty finding a smith that can chamber the 308ai, I havent given it much more thought.

 

[madcalfe]

I am a beginner hand loader and have looked at the ai variants of the 708 and 308. From what I understand they offer pretty minimal performance increases in the short action platforms. Between that and the difficulty finding a smith that can chamber the 308ai, I havent given it much more thought.

where are you located in canada?
also, any smith should be able to chamber an AI cartridge.
Just the matter of having a reamer for it.

 

[Article 4]

I am a beginner hand loader and have looked at the ai variants of the 708 and 308. From what I understand they offer pretty minimal performance increases in the short action platforms. Between that and the difficulty finding a smith that can chamber the 308ai, I havent given it much more thought.

I know ppl that can chamber it....we have done maybe 4 of them. 180's usually run high 27's to near 2800 fps which is about 200 fps over factory 308. Not a ton but fun!!!! Manageable recoil for sure at about 47 or 48 grains versus 44 or so with the 308
Would be a great platform to further your hand loading learning.

Many other calibers will work for your needs. Confidence and comfort in the gun and process mean a lot. Always have to start there.

 

[Article 4]

I would consider a few more options for caliber. Since the creation of some bullets that hold together really well, the smaller, fast moving calibers now offer some other options. A few that come to mind, 6 and 7 SAUM. If you only have a 300 yard range you want, you could choose dang near anything. Even the 7-08, 6.5 CM and PRC.

Smaller diameter bullet, I suspect would be a slightly smaller diameter barrel also.

Just throwing out some more options. Sounds like a pretty cool build!

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

True - love the SAUM and the PRC. I have one is 6.5 that I run a lot and like it. In this case though, they have diff bolt faces with 480 and 540 with the saum being a magnum

 

[robtattoo]

@Rivisondali
FYI, Here's my dope. 220 Speer, 2440 MV. 3000' ASL, 49⁰, 50% RH, 10mph wind.

100-500