Senate vote public lands sale

[WaWox]

Utah is probably the most important ORV use area and from other people's accounts (i have never done it and never camped where this is prominent, outside one elk hunt in the monroe where indeed the sxs are going thru everything all hours of the day) have ruined a lot of areas of backpacking and horseback riding.

 

[mtwarden]

I'm pretty sure that Mike Lee purposely left Montana out as he'd love to have Daines and Sheehy vote for the bill, but being able to offer their constituents that it isn't going to happen in Montana.

Guaranteed that after the first sales of public land, there will be a landslide of a lot more proposed to be sold.

Hopefully enough senators have reservations that it gets removed from the BBB.

 

[Poser]

Their argument doesn’t hold water though. Removing wilderness land from the public ownership doesn’t increase the amount of OHV trails available to the public. Your assessment of the IQ does seem to track. All it does is make the land they like to ride on closer to the chopping block. Wild that they can’t see down the line.

I was working on some of the San Juan area user groups. Another sentiment I saw was "since the Alpine Loop, Black Bear, Imogene and Ophir passes are country roads, it doesn't matter if the land is sold."

1. Plenty examples out there of country roads that become inaccessible once you cross into private land.
2. Don't you think that part of the aesthetic of driving these alpine roads is looking at what is, for the most part, miles of undeveloped mountains? There is certainly a novelty to driving shelf roads, especially if you are a flatlander, but we're not talking about technical rock crawlin' here -this is largely an aesthetic based attraction as people want to experience the high country.

 

[IdahoBeav]

ORV have been consistently terrible on land use everywhere and always.

Not true, they're pretty well limited to trails.

 

[KurtR]

What are talking about?

The constant complaint about nr and over crowding. The we want your help but dont really want you here feeling a lot of hunters have gotten lately from out west.

 

[WaWox]

Not true, they're pretty well limited to trails.

Yes and they lobby for garbage trails in beautiful places.

There are a lot of places in this, the most beautiful country on the planet, where you should need to work to get to, not drive up and litter everywhere.

 

[Dos Perros]

1. Plenty examples out there of country roads that become inaccessible once you cross into private land.

Are you saying this for Colorado specifically? My understanding is that it Colorado if there has been historical public use then even if the county ceased maintenance it would remain publicly accessible.

County preserves public access near De Beque – Garfield County, Colorado

www.garfieldcountyco.gov

 

[Poser]

Are you saying this for Colorado specifically? My understanding is that it Colorado if there has been historical public use then even if the county ceased maintenance it would remain publicly accessible.

County preserves public access near De Beque – Garfield County, Colorado

www.garfieldcountyco.gov

I know of a nearby example where the county stopped maintaining the road even though it still shows up on maps and OnX as a country road and it is gated off with no trespassing signs.

 

[Dos Perros]

I know of a nearby example where the county stopped maintaining the road even though it still shows up on maps and OnX as a country road and it is gated off with no trespassing signs.

Good chance that's not a legitimate application of the law. Probably giant pain in the ass to get it addressed tho. The example I mentioned took years to sort out.

 

[IdahoBeav]

Yes and they lobby for garbage trails in beautiful places.

There are a lot of places in this, the most beautiful country on the planet, where you should need to work to get to, not drive up and litter everywhere.

Some people would say that you shouldn't be allowed to hunt in there, either.

I've seen and packed out a lot of trash left in the backcountry by spike camp hunters. I ran across the remains from a horse camp that would have taken me all summer to pack out. Hopefully, someone else with stock went back in and cleaned it up.

I've also noticed elk to be very calm as close as a couple hundred yards from a trail that had bikes ripping up and down all day.

 

[WaWox]

My understanding from studies about all sorts of trails is that they have pretty big impact on wildlife. Eg elk will not like to cross even just a mountain bike trail if it gets heavy use. This can severely affect winter survival odds if that means they graze on marginally worse land all summer because they dont cross these trails. They elk don't need to be spooked and hightail it out of there for there to be damage done.

 

[KurtR]

My understanding from studies about all sorts of trails is that they have pretty big impact on wildlife. Eg elk will not like to cross even just a mountain bike trail if it gets heavy use. This can severely affect winter survival odds if that means they graze on marginally worse land all summer because they dont cross these trails. They elk don't need to be spooked and hightail it out of there for there to be damage done.

Maybe they need to pave them the elk have no problem running out across the hi way at night in front of my pick up

 

[IdahoBeav]

My understanding from studies about all sorts of trails is that they have pretty big impact on wildlife. Eg elk will not like to cross even just a mountain bike trail if it gets heavy use. This can severely affect winter survival odds if that means they graze on marginally worse land all summer because they dont cross these trails. They elk don't need to be spooked and hightail it out of there for there to be damage done.

There are also studies that say wolves are great for elk herds.

Studies seem to be more about an agenda than science.

 

[WaWox]

There are also studies that say wolves are great for elk herds.

Studies seem to be more about an agenda than science.

As a publishing scientist, I am very aware of the weaknesses of many many published studies. Some fields have weak methodological foundations and a lot of not sufficiently well trained researchers are running the stats modeling to everyone's detriment. But this doesn't mean you can dismiss scientific studies as a concept like that. A lot of good stuff gets published and you need to read studies on the merits and decide individually if they are credible or not.

 

[wyosam]

Everyone going on about water acts like they haven't heard of wells, aquifers, pipelines, or desalination. The Stone Age didn't end because of a lack of stone - and we only have a lack of water in certain places because we're unwilling to apply the tech to do desalination and transport.

I guarantee you, if Los Angeles didn't have access to NorCal's water, not only would Central Valley food be vastly cheaper and more abundant because of being able to use their own water instead of shipping it to LA, LA would also be the world's leader in desalination tech. Because it's a desert. Israel is the currently the world's leader in desalination tech. Because it's a desert.

The idea we can only live where nature gave us enough water is as absurd as saying we should only live in caves, or that we shouldn't fly because God didn't give us wings. Endless abundance of water is only an issue of tech, will, and market demand.

Getting back to this legislation though, it's patently disgusting. Call your senators.

It’s not lack of desire to “apply tech” and transport. It’s money. Desalination is barely viable to supplement primary sources financially in Southern California. Pumping it hundreds of miles uphill inland so we can build more homes in the desert sure isn’t helping anyone live affordably once they pay the water bill. Possible? Sure. Makes almost as much sense as building a giant wind farm in Wyoming, then 700 miles of power line to keep the lights on in Vegas.


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[JFK]

I’d worry about the details after this is squashed. If you allow it to happen once, then it will likely happen again.

 

[TaperPin]

Yeah, because a new multi family development on the outskirts of town creates a cliche inner-city ghetto, lol.

There are a lot of people that are being pushed out of the mountain west because they can no longer afford it, so your drivel about no benefit to the people already living here is nonsense.

It never ceases to amaze me how little some people on RS know about development and how loudly they speak. I shouldn't be surprised, though. It's standard procedure when emotions outweigh facts.

Your entire argument depends on people not understanding development and going along with you. Every voter in the country should familiarize themselves with it, although the sources of federal information that used to be reliable and informative has been censored, altered, deleted and now only talks the party line. Dig deeper into affordable housing.

You’re not really telling the whole story are you. The Trump budget will slash the HUD budget by almost half and essentially do away with many of the tax incentives for low income housing. You know, the tax incentives that have been the backbone of developing new affordable multi family. The part you don’t even mention.

So if developers get free land and the tax incentives go away, are the developers going to subsidize rent out of the goodness of their hearts? No, they will say it’s not their fault the tax incentives went away and claim there is no choice but to rent at market rates. Who benefits? The developers.

The entire budget is gamed for the benefit of the top 10% at the expense of the bottom 90% and the crazy thing is how many people in that 90% voted for it. Stop voting for oligarchs. Stop believing oligarchs are here to help you.

 

[7mm-08]

Communications to both Idaho senators submitted. Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention, Jason.

 

[TaperPin]

Yeah, because a new multi family development on the outskirts of town creates a cliche inner-city ghetto, lol.

There are a lot of people that are being pushed out of the mountain west because they can no longer afford it, so your drivel about no benefit to the people already living here is nonsense.

It never ceases to amaze me how little some people on RS know about development and how loudly they speak. I shouldn't be surprised, though. It's standard procedure when emotions outweigh facts.

If the oligarch’s budget passes a quick search shows 2000 families in Ada county (Boise area) currently benefitting from section 8 housing assistance that will loose it.

Although section 8 is being deleted, I was wrong about Low Income Housing Tax Credits also being deleted for the construction of new multi family.

 

[NDGuy]

Sen Lee speaks with forked tongue.

and is human garbage
Do better Utah

‘Have you no decency?’ Read the scathing letter a Minnesota US Senate staffer sent to Mike Lee

After Utah Sen. Mike Lee promoted right-wing conspiracy theories about the man who killed Melissa Hortman and her husband, a senior staffer for Sen. Tina Smith wrote a blistering email to Lee’s staff.

www.sltrib.com