Rip my rookie OTC elk plan apart

[Indian Summer]

“An area where I have spent time” There’s a value in that. A big one for sure. I’ve hunted and killed pressured elk in places where other people couldn’t lay eyes on one to save their life. Best of luck to you sir!

 

[caltex]

We went for 2 weeks last season. We were totally overwhelmed by the terrain. Topo lines are way worse in person. Spent a week in 1 unit looking at old sign. Decided to roll to another unit ( my buddy was ready to throw in the towel due to forest service roads beating the crap out of his pickup and no elk). He ended up killing a 5x5. Only elk we saw and heard only 1 other bull. We got hit with a 17 hr monsoon and couldn’t get dried out so we threw in the towel a day early. Other than that best hunting experience of our lives. That was our first archery hunt, we’ve rifle hunted but never archery. Best wishes

Amen on the overwhelming terrain / altitude. The first time I visited family up there I was in college and was on our triathlon team so I thought I was an endurance badass. There was a local triathlon that was being held the same weekend I arrived and I thought I'd casually do it... I ended up barely finishing the race. My time was literally double my PB that I had set earlier that year at sea level. I had to do half the swim using backstroke instead of freestyle because I couldn't breathe. I slept the whole next day. Learned that lesson...

Everything I keep hearing seems to come back to staying mobile and "failing fast" instead of stubbornly sticking with a bad zone. Sounds like you guys put that idea to work and got it done. Nice work.

@caltex
Hey man,

You are getting after it physically and planning early. You also didn't ask people where you should hunt, just how you should go about getting ready for your hunt. That's super refreshing.

The hardcore guys will know within a couple of units where you will be hunting based on your description, but that's no big deal. The pressure will already be there regardless.

I'm a native to your mystery state, bowhunt exclusively and am in the industry. PM me if you want to, I'd be happy to help you out.

That's a really generous offer and I'm going to take you up on it. Will be sending you a PM.

From reading your post, I'd be careful not to 'over train' and injure yourself.......also, take up LuvsFixedBlades on his offer.....that's a solid offer....not many like that around today.

I've currently got a shoulder injury that I'm nursing back to health after overtraining... so you're not off the mark. I'll keep that in mind.

Here's my prediction:

You're going to get there a week early, go 'scout' some areas, probable see some elk, get all pumped up for the opener.

Opening day you head in to the area you scouted and then wonder why you didnt see any elk.

Why? Because every other Tom, Dick and Harry did the same thing.

Then you hunt for a a few days, work a couple. Guess what happens next....

Muzzleloader guys show up on Wed/Thurs and the cycle repeats. They go out to 'scout'.... yada, yada...

They usually hit it kinda hard until about Wednesday, then pack up and head back to the Midwest so they can go hang their Whitetail stands and trail cams.

Now you're frustrated because elk are non-excitant. And you pretty have to start all over and the season is half over.

Yeah.... seen it so many times.

Wish you luck man

Haha the season wouldn't be half over... I'd still have half the season left to go

It'd be nice to get eyes on an elk or two, but I'd also be happy to just take 4, 4-day backpacking trips through God's country while carrying a bow.

I literally was just going to create a very similar thread. You seem to have really done a good job thinking about this.

My son and I are planning our first archery elk hunt for two weeks likely to the same mystery state, but from the description of the location likely a different area. I’m 48 and he’s 25, we are longtime public land archery whitetail hunters in the state with highest hunter density in the Midwest. We are in the process of getting our gear and bodies in shape (well me more than him… he’s a fitness nut already…). I archery hunted mule deer in the WY Big Horns back in the late 90’s, so this isn’t my first hunting trip out west, but elk hunting will be new. ( I remember seeing elk out mule deer hunting, and still remember the first bugle I heard…) . Well then family life and kids sports and other things took over and I haven’t been able get back to hunting out west until now…(like everyone else it seems too….)

Our plan is to truck hunt and try to be mobile, but have the option to bivy/spike if needed. We are going through the online Elk101 course and have gotten subscriptions to the other online resource to help us narrow down areas. I fully understand that no matter how much we plan we will get curve balls when we get there and will need to have an open mind and be willing to adjust….

My biggest questions/issues I have right now are when looking at the maps how to tell which roads are open to travel both my truck and by atv ( we will not be bringing an ATV…) and how to tell if an area is full of beetle kill or blowdown.

I will say this has motivated me to really start exercising regularly … and in the end spending time with my son on a new adventure and getting myself into a better place physically will make it all worth it no matter if we tag one or not ( I know it’s gonna kick my butt physically , so I’m trying to prepare mentally for that as well… heck I may be so overwhelmed by the terrain I will need to stay within a mile of the truck, lol…)

I do appreciate all the great tips that the veteran Rokslider’s contribute especially regarding gear reviews and how new elk hunters can prepare both physically and mentally for the challenge.

I know those roads open/close based on weather conditions so that'll probably be a question for the Forest Service a few weeks out.

Your son is lucky to have you getting out there with him. My dad is a little older and he says he's happy to come help pack it out if I shoot it, but he's not following me around chasing things anymore. He'll be sitting on the back porch drinking a beer and waiting for my text with GPS coordinates.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Terrain is just a way of narrowing down where elk are "likely to be". Sign is what you really want to see, but that's impossible until you're on the ground. So I'd say plan as many "terrain features" as you can that have a higher likelihood of holding elk. I like saddles that transition between daytime feed areas and night beddown areas.

If I were in a new area I didn't know I'd have as many of those locations marked as possible and then get my boots on the ground to see which ones have sign (poop, tracks, rubs, real life elk, gut piles). Old sign...move on. Fresh sign, make a plan to be in the area during morning and evening transitions.

E-scouting is cool, but again, the terrain you see on maps is really just the starting places that you're likely to cross 75% off your list after a very brief time on the ground.

 

[AaronMColeman]

OP seems to be getting into shape, but I would highly recommend a daily exercise plan. Nothing crazy, but 30 minutes of sweat a day goes a long way to covering ground during the season. I like HIIT style circuit training since it is super effective in short time frames.

 

[gostovp]

OP seems to be getting into shape, but I would highly recommend a daily exercise plan. Nothing crazy, but 30 minutes of sweat a day goes a long way to covering ground during the season. I like HIIT style circuit training since it is super effective in short time frames.

I’m doing a lot of HIIT type training and doing some of the MtnOps elk fit workouts. If it ever warms up here I’m going to be doing a lot of sled/tire drags. I’m also doing hikes with about 40lbs in my pack. I did over 6 miles of hiking on Sunday scouting for whitetail spots in knee high rubber boots, which if you wear knee high rubber boots you know how bad that sucks

 

[ShakeDown]

Just go get it man. To hell with the internet.

Good luck!

 

[caltex]

Terrain is just a way of narrowing down where elk are "likely to be". Sign is what you really want to see, but that's impossible until you're on the ground. So I'd say plan as many "terrain features" as you can that have a higher likelihood of holding elk. I like saddles that transition between daytime feed areas and night beddown areas.

If I were in a new area I didn't know I'd have as many of those locations marked as possible and then get my boots on the ground to see which ones have sign (poop, tracks, rubs, real life elk, gut piles). Old sign...move on. Fresh sign, make a plan to be in the area during morning and evening transitions.

E-scouting is cool, but again, the terrain you see on maps is really just the starting places that you're likely to cross 75% off your list after a very brief time on the ground.

OP seems to be getting into shape, but I would highly recommend a daily exercise plan. Nothing crazy, but 30 minutes of sweat a day goes a long way to covering ground during the season. I like HIIT style circuit training since it is super effective in short time frames.

I think I was thinking about doing things in the wrong order.

My plan was to go to areas where elk "should" be and then set up shop and start glassing morning/evening and still hunting during the day. Now that sounds like a recipe to waste a lot of time.

It sounds like the better plan is to create a ~10-15 mile loop from the truck and back with ~15 spots where elk "could" be. Then throw your pack with 4 days rations on and start hoofing it (while being aware of wind). If you don't find any sign... get in the truck and move to the next zone/loop and repeat. If you do find good sign, start triangulating food/water/cover and then figure out a way to hunt the area.

This also explains why conditioning is so important... I though it was just flatlanders needing to get ready to move in the mountains and potentially pack out an animal. It sounds like if you're doing it right, you could have several days where you're hustling while carrying a load before you slow down and really hunt.

 

[Balderdash]

The letters OTC along with the elevation pretty much identified the state. But did you know that OTC stands for really hard hunting for pressured elk? The house is nice but I’d rather sleep in a tent to hunt low pressured elk going about their business without a care in the world.

Narrowing to a certain state based on the clues, there isn't really such a thing as unpressured public land elk in an OTC area of that state, at least that I've come across. But there might be areas that haven't been pressured as hard yet. Further, there will likely be areas that were hunted hard the first weekend, but then get rested enough to have pressured elk move in from someplace else.

I like the OP's plan of getting in deep and glassing early. Not only will he hopefully find out where some game is moving, but he should also be able to keep tabs on what areas are getting hunted hard and what areas might be left alone, comparatively.

For years we hunted a heavily hunted unit in CO. We still managed to get some elk by staying after it and trying to find areas that hadn't been hit yet. Sometimes this meant you had to walk a long ways; other times it meant overcoming an obstacle/s to access an area; sometimes places closer to the road were inexplicably left untouched certain years. Often we'd set up to glass and watch for elk that got pushed around or just to identify an area in which we didn't see other camps and hunters. Hunting pressure changes from year to year, but there's generally some areas that, for wherever reasons, aren't hit as hard.

I also like your idea of camping out at night. Hearing animals at night is a great way to locate them for the morning. Also, depending on moon phase, there's plenty of times you can glass pretty far at night without artificial light. I had a hunt in which we were having a difficult time finding elk for several days. Several hours after dark, on a long drive back from a hunting area, we were able to glass a herd in the moonlight several ridges over from camp, and we were able to get into those elk for the next several days.

 

[Indian Summer]

Narrowing to a certain state based on the clues, there isn't really such a thing as unpressured public land elk in an OTC area of that state, at least that I've come across. But there might be areas that haven't been pressured as hard yet. Further, there will likely be areas that were hunted hard the first weekend, but then get rested enough to have pressured elk move in from someplace else.

I like the OP's plan of getting in deep and glassing early. Not only will he hopefully find out where some game is moving, but he should also be able to keep tabs on what areas are getting hunted hard and what areas might be left alone, comparatively.

For years we hunted a heavily hunted unit in CO. We still managed to get some elk by staying after it and trying to find areas that hadn't been hit yet. Sometimes this meant you had to walk a long ways; other times it meant overcoming an obstacle/s to access an area; sometimes places closer to the road were inexplicably left untouched certain years. Often we'd set up to glass and watch for elk that got pushed around or just to identify an area in which we didn't see other camps and hunters. Hunting pressure changes from year to year, but there's generally some areas that, for wherever reasons, aren't hit as hard.

I also like your idea of camping out at night. Hearing animals at night is a great way to locate them for the morning. Also, depending on moon phase, there's plenty of times you can glass pretty far at night without artificial light. I had a hunt in which we were having a difficult time finding elk for several days. Several hours after dark, on a long drive back from a hunting area, we were able to glass a heard in the moonlight several ridges over from camp, and we were able to get into those elk for the next several days.

And THAT is why all the guys thinking that OTC is the way to go should think differently. They think well… it’s easier than figuring out the licensing system in other states. Or… it’s the shortest drive from back east. Omg is that a priority!!! Nobody minds spending months researching gear and hunting units but they still think inside the box. The OTC box. I like to ask guys… would you rather drive home for 12 hours with empty coolers and unpunched tags wondering wtf to do next year or drive home 20 hours with meat and racks in the rear view mirror thinking about how much smarter you’ll be when you go back to the same area next year??? I’ll drive to the end of the earth if I know I’ll be seeing bulls when I get there and not be competing with a million other otc minded guys.

 

[AaronMColeman]

I think I was thinking about doing things in the wrong order.

My plan was to go to areas where elk "should" be and then set up shop and start glassing morning/evening and still hunting during the day. Now that sounds like a recipe to waste a lot of time.

It sounds like the better plan is to create a ~10-15 mile loop from the truck and back with ~15 spots where elk "could" be. Then throw your pack with 4 days rations on and start hoofing it (while being aware of wind). If you don't find any sign... get in the truck and move to the next zone/loop and repeat. If you do find good sign, start triangulating food/water/cover and then figure out a way to hunt the area.

This also explains why conditioning is so important... I though it was just flatlanders needing to get ready to move in the mountains and potentially pack out an animal. It sounds like if you're doing it right, you could have several days where you're hustling while carrying a load before you slow down and really hunt.

I like the idea of a "loop" I'll bet you can find a couple connected ridges with 10+ nice looking saddles, burn areas etc. And just walk the loop looking for sign at the primo areas.

Also don't overthink it, or under think it. You're on the right track but hunting elk is more about having a lot of tools in your chest rather than having a detailed plan. I think finding the terrain and looking for sign is the best plan.

 

[CMF]

After elk hunting the last three years, the only benefit I see to scouting with camp is hearing elk in the middle of the night. Several times now, we’ve carried camp only to have elk close enough t the truck that wasn’t worth packing camp. Unless you’re going really deep, I would do shorter loops without camp and be able to cover more ground faster until you find elk.

 

[nphunter]

Sounds like a good plan, I would defiantly not overdo it training and get hurt, sounds like you are doing way more than enough to be effective. You don't have to cover 15 miles a day to find elk, planning on that is good way to move too fast, bump elk and overlook good elk spots. Elk don't mind roads and they don't mind people either unless they are bothering them, just don't walk or drive past miles of great elk county to try to find backcountry elk.

There will be more elk down around the private than in the high country, elk love easy living and it doesn't get any easier than a quick walk down a draw to ag ground. Elk are plains animals and only go into the deep nasty country by necessity. A bugle tube in the dark may work much better than glassing all day, elk are vocal, more vocal at night and depending on weather and location they typically bed down shortly after sun rise.

Move slow and methodical, if there is a good bench put in the effort to check it out, find a good trail and follow it, never approach areas you think might have elk from upwind. In the morning hunt from the bottom up, thermals will be sucking down most of the morning, and if you sidehill above good elk habitat you will push the elk out without ever knowing they are there. Small areas can hold a lot of elk, and so can pocket areas near roads and people, don't overlook these areas. Spend some of your scouting driving around, and look for elk crossings on FS roads. Cold calling can be really effective if you are patient, mark areas you find elk or good sign on your GPS, mark good trails into an area with a track.

When it comes to elk hunting slow and steady wins the race, if elk aren't being vocal cover the country as slowly and methodically as possible. I have stood 30 yards from a group of cows and ripped bugles at them for 20 minutes without them even looking my direction, decided to keep going and bump them out of our way and when we did a big 6 point bull stood up from behind them and walked off as well without ever making a peep. Sometimes elk are just not vocal, that doesn't mean they aren't there!

Report back here after the season and let everyone know how you do! Good Luck!

 

[PNW bow hunter]

I couldn’t imagine planning an archery elk elk hunt , and having my main tactic being still hunting timber. If your awkwardly stumbling through the timber as you state, you’ll be lucky to hear the sound of the elk running off as you spook them out of their bedding areas in each of the basins you hunt.

Everywhere is a little different, I’ll describe where elk bed in most of the places I hunt. The elk that bed in the timber are in an area that has a lot of deadfall and or thick stuff around it, then they are in a small slightly more open spot inside of that. You literally can’t see them 50 yards away, but they are in a spot where the will most likely see, hear, or smell you. That is why they are alive and bed in that spot.

Successfully still hunting for me in lots of different states happens when I am moving 100-200 yards per hour MAX, depending on weather conditions. Take 2-3 slow motion steps, stop and slowly glass. While glassing I am changing focus on binoculars, and looking THROUGH branches for animals after scanning the closer stuff.

If there are so many hunters in the area that you don’t want to call, I wouldn’t expect the elk to be frequenting open areas during daylight much.

I use all types of different calling and calling strategies to call in elk. I call in elk every year in OTC areas. If I think there may be other hunters around I won’t be screaming as loud as I can very 15 minute with my bugle, but I will be calling.

A huge majority of places I hunt the elk move around a fair amount, even without human pressure. If you do glass up elk in the morning go hunt them that day. Even if they are a couple miles away, get over to where you watched them go to bed, and use your calls to call the bull to you. Personally I think your odds are way better calling than still hunting the timber to kill a bull. Tons of variables obviously. If a bull is bugleing a lot, you just sneak into him with out calling.

If the trails are as busy as you are thinking, I wouldn’t spend much time anywhere near them during daylight. Treat them like a road, and try to figure out pockets the elk will use, that almost no one will mess with.

Your week of scouting before season is a giant advantage. That is probably a really great time for you to find some elk, and then try to get a bull killed opening day. You have a whole week to find unpressured elk. If I had located elk in that week before the season, I would be trying to spot and stalk, or spot and intercept one of the bulls I had found opening morning.

If I was in your shoes after opening weekend and stuff has been bumped around, I would be working ridgelines using cow calls around suspected bedding areas. Steep timbered hillsides with small benches
are what I focus on. Set up and call for 20-30 minutes, then move.

It sounds like you have a pretty unique situation with work, nearby family, and and the time you can hunt. After 2-3 years (if not sooner) of spending the amount of time you are saying you will put in you should be able to get a shot at a bull pretty much every year in an area that has a lot of elk as you describe.

 

[Marble]

My only suggestion for the OP is to try out the gear he plans on using during the hunt. Set up the tent, sleeping system, water and cooking stuff and dp a few trial runs.

You'll learn you don't have stuff you need and have stuff you don't.



Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[IdahoHntr]

Lots of good advice and seems like you’re already leaning towards it, but I’ll put another vote in for staying more mobile. I hunt a different OTC state.., but I have wasted a lot of time in beautiful elk country without an elk in it. In my opinion backpacking camp in doesn’t do you much good until you know where the elk are. Find them first. Elk move around a lot, especially during season, and using roads to your advantage can help you keep up with them as well as find multiple locations that hold elk. You’ll appreciate how important backup spots are once you’ve blown out an area or two.

Sometimes people take the mobile, hunting from the truck approach to mean your taking the “easier” route or you aren’t hardcore enough to sleep in the backcountry and carry camp with you. It isn’t the cool thing right now. Don’t be fooled. Carrying camp with you is a lot easier than constantly hiking in and out, gaining and losing altitude, covering new country. It’s a lot of work, and that is why it works.

I’d also concur with hunting during the week if possible. My best days in the woods frequently occur between Tuesday and Thursday. Middle of the week definitely means less people.

Good luck!

 

[caltex]

This is a gold mine of information and I appreciate y'all taking the time to advise a new guy. I've got a word doc of all this advice going and I'll be keeping it in mind while I do my scouting this summer.

Counting down until September. I'll drop a report afterwards to let everyone know how it goes.

 

[Balderdash]

And THAT is why all the guys thinking that OTC is the way to go should think differently. They think well… it’s easier than figuring out the licensing system in other states. Or… it’s the shortest drive from back east. Omg is that a priority!!! Nobody minds spending months researching gear and hunting units but they still think inside the box. The OTC box. I like to ask guys… would you rather drive home for 12 hours with empty coolers and unpunched tags wondering wtf to do next year or drive home 20 hours with meat and racks in the rear view mirror thinking about how much smarter you’ll be when you go back to the same area next year??? I’ll drive to the end of the earth if I know I’ll be seeing bulls when I get there and not be competing with a million other otc minded guys.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but I would point out that hunting OTC isnt so much a "mindset" as it is a rather hunt someplace than stay home scenario for a lot of us. I put in for elk points in multiple states. We have draw units we've hunted that have been awesome. Problem is, the frequency with which you can hunt many of these draw units is decreasing all the time. And I'll choose hunting big rough country, even if it's crowded, over sitting home any day.

I don't consider many OTC tags I've had through the years to be a waste of time at all. If anything, going at it on crowded public land makes having some success that much more memorable. Most anyone can go to a private land ranch and have some "luck". Similarly, some draw only units offer easier access and multiple opportunities. Not stating that I mind hunts like that once in awhile, either, just stating that one of the reasons I hunt mountainous country is to experience a good challenge, and regularly finding success on most OTC tags certainly provides that.

 

[caltex]

And THAT is why all the guys thinking that OTC is the way to go should think differently. They think well… it’s easier than figuring out the licensing system in other states. Or… it’s the shortest drive from back east. Omg is that a priority!!! Nobody minds spending months researching gear and hunting units but they still think inside the box. The OTC box. I like to ask guys… would you rather drive home for 12 hours with empty coolers and unpunched tags wondering wtf to do next year or drive home 20 hours with meat and racks in the rear view mirror thinking about how much smarter you’ll be when you go back to the same area next year??? I’ll drive to the end of the earth if I know I’ll be seeing bulls when I get there and not be competing with a million other otc minded guys.

I don't have a ton of experience here so I'm not going to say that going the OTC way is better, just that there might be other considerations for a lot of OTC hunters.

I will say that there is something about hunting (or fishing) areas that you have a connection to that is different than just looking at a map of the west and playing the points game to hunt the areas with the right combination of draw odds/success rates/trophy potential/hunting pressure, etc. Both are good options and have their pros and cons, but I want to learn to hunt this unit inside and out because it's the area where my family is and where I will have the opportunity to hunt every year.

One of my friends here in Southern California has a fishing log that has been passed down from his grandfather to his father and now to him. It has triangulation landmarks, GPS numbers and guides to every reef within 60 miles of here. His grandfather passed, but he and his dad still look through that log and add things from time to time. It's a pretty cool connection they all have. You don't get that kind of thing if you jump from state to state hunting the best opportunities every year.

 

[bozeman]

Dont discount e-scouting.....I picked out 3 areas from Alabama and all 3 areas in that great state of MT/WY/ID/CO/NM had elk when I got there......so close....so close.....hopefully try again this Sept/Oct......

 

[gostovp]

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but I would point out that hunting OTC isnt so much a "mindset" as it is a rather hunt someplace than stay home scenario for a lot of us. I put in for elk points in multiple states. We have draw units we've hunted that have been awesome. Problem is, the frequency with which you can hunt many of these draw units is decreasing all the time. And I'll choose hunting big rough country, even if it's crowded, over sitting home any day.

I don't consider many OTC tags I've had through the years to be a waste of time at all. If anything, going at it on crowded public land makes having some success that much more memorable. Most anyone can go to a private land ranch and have some "luck". Similarly, some draw only units offer easier access and multiple opportunities. Not stating that I mind hunts like that once in awhile, either, just stating that one of the reasons I hunt mountainous country is to experience a good challenge, and regularly finding success on most OTC tags certainly provides that.

This is the scenario for my son and I this year.. (somewhere to hunt vs staying home)…heck we weren’t even planning on going until we could get enough PP’s for MT in 2023. We didn’t try to draw MT this year because my son’s good buddy that will be going with us to MT ( and has family there )couldn’t make it this year. My next plan is to draw an archery tag in WY.. the best man from my wedding is now a WY resident and lives in a unit that should only take a few pts to draw as it is mostly wilderness area, and being a resident he can take my son and I into the wilderness areas to hunt.

But we started getting all our gear and decided to try an OTC hunt this fall to give it a try. This thread has been very helpful in understanding what the hunt will be like and to set expectations.