Received the Vaccine today...

[thinhorn_AK]

Everybody is an expert these days.

I work with a guy who constantly talks about how masks don’t work (like it takes a rocket surgeon to see that a mask will prevent some
Shot from flying through the air if you sneeze). The same guy says the world is 5000 years old
Because the Bible says so.

The people who don’t believe in science are real.

 

[MattB]

Nearly 10% of Americans have allegedly tested positive for Covid thus far. That does not count the countless numbers of people who were infected and did not get tested. In the last 10 months no large gatherings, other than the protests in the cities, have been allowed. Most of the population, especially in densely populated areas with large outbreaks, have worn masks and stayed socially distanced. These have been the main guidelines of the “Medical Experts”. Yet we here of all the deaths and infections despite the “consistent guidelines “ given to us by the experts. So unfortunately I have to question the advice of the experts when the math doesn’t add up to me. My general philosophy of life is “if I have to be talked into an idea, it is probably a bad idea”. As of now, NO VACCINE for me.

PS. Go online and look at the highlights of all the politicians who deliberately break the rules of the guidelines. I’m confused why the people with the most direct contact to the medical experts are not following the experts advice to a tee.

No large gatherings other than protests? Did you not see Trump's campaign rallies? Did you not see the ~460K people attended Sturgis? Seems to me you are cherry picking to support a false narrative.

I believe the mistake you are making is giving Americans too much credit for following the rules. Too much entitlement and too many people who favor politics over science. Other countries who did a better job than the US in following the medical recommendations fared far better than the US in terms of cases/1MM. The US is at 83K, whereas Canada is at 22K, Norway is at 9K, and Japan is at 3K.

 

[Laramie]

Everybody is an expert these days.

I work with a guy who constantly talks about how masks don’t work (like it takes a rocket surgeon to see that a mask will prevent some
Shot from flying through the air if you sneeze). The same guy says the world is 5000 years old
Because the Bible says so.

The people who don’t believe in science are real.

Just as real as the people who trust politicians to lead them through life.

I could care less what a person chooses to do to their body. I care deeply when a government entity is trying to force it upon society.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Just as real as the people who trust politicians to lead them through life.

I could care less what a person chooses to do to their body. I care deeply when a government entity is trying to force it upon society.

Absolutely. Listen to the medical professionals and form your own opinions. Politicians and books of Stone Age fairytales are not trustworthy sources of information.

 

[Laramie]

Absolutely. Listen to the medical professionals and form your own opinions. Politicians and books of Stone Age fairytales are not trustworthy sources of information.

I'm not sure why you are trying to bring religion into this discussion.

As much as the media would like you to believe it, the medical community is not all on the same page.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I'm not sure why you are trying to bring religion into this discussion.

As much as the media would like you to believe it, the medical community is not all on the same page.

I was simply pointing out that there are in intelligent people out there pretending to be experts. Just speaking of a real life example.

 

[MattB]

I'm not sure why you are trying to bring religion into this discussion.

As much as the media would like you to believe it, the medical community is not all on the same page.

Do you have examples of disagreement within the medical community? I have read a few comments to that effect but have not seen examples.

 

[Laramie]

Do you have examples of disagreement within the medical community? I have read a few comments to that effect but have not seen examples.

My personal physician, My best friends wife, My step dads daughter, A good friend I grew up with, a few others I know in passing... Get them in the same room together and they can't seem to stop arguing. There are many who have different beliefs than the media narrative being shoved down our throats. They do not share their opinions publicly because of all the BS they would face. Anyone speaking against current policy is berated and slandered.

They all believe Covid is real, they just don't all agree with how it is being handled.

 

[fwafwow]

Do you have examples of disagreement within the medical community? I have read a few comments to that effect but have not seen examples.

I think that you and I are on the same page (at least generally), so I'm not taking issue with the question. I know of no disagreement within the medical community on the vaccine, but I also have not looked for it.

As for disagreements within the medical community on the treatments for Covid, there has at least been the debate on hydroxychloroquine - and on that topic, I got an earful last summer from a friend who is an oncologist about how far off I was to think HCQ could be helpful, or at least not harmful. Fauci said in July that HCQ "is not effective in the treatment of coronavirus disease or Covid-19" and about a week later an article in the American Journal of Medicine said "when started earlier in the hospital course, for progressively longer durations and in outpatients, antimalarials [HCQ] may reduce the progression of disease, prevent hospitalization, and are associated with reduced mortality." Yes, this was in the summer and perhaps the broader community is now more aligned.

I also think that there are some who question masks (my physician says the evidence supporting their efficacy is questionable) and the lockdowns (this guy is pretty interesting - "Do Lockdowns Work or Not?" - https://drmalcolmkendrick.org).

Although I believe the medical community is usually correct, and in agreement, a few recent books I've read have caused me to question much more than I used to. The diet/heart or lipid hypothesis is a good example. And if you are up for something disturbing, read "Bad Pharma - How Drug Companies Mislead Doctors and Harm Patients" by Ben Goldacre. The book does not just call out Big Pharma, but also universities, government agencies (including the FDA), health organizations and medical journals. It's pretty troubling, and as a result, not easy to read/stomach.

 

[MattB]

My personal physician, My best friends wife, My step dads daughter, A good friend I grew up with, a few others I know in passing... Get them in the same room together and they can't seem to stop arguing. There are many who have different beliefs than the media narrative being shoved down our throats. They do not share their opinions publicly because of all the BS they would face. Anyone speaking against current policy is berated and slandered.

They all believe Covid is real, they just don't all agree with how it is being handled.

What are their specific medical disagreements? That is what I was getting at.

 

[MattB]

I think that you and I are on the same page (at least generally), so I'm not taking issue with the question. I know of no disagreement within the medical community on the vaccine, but I also have not looked for it.

As for disagreements within the medical community on the treatments for Covid, there has at least been the debate on hydroxychloroquine - and on that topic, I got an earful last summer from a friend who is an oncologist about how far off I was to think HCQ could be helpful, or at least not harmful. Fauci said in July that HCQ "is not effective in the treatment of coronavirus disease or Covid-19" and about a week later an article in the American Journal of Medicine said "when started earlier in the hospital course, for progressively longer durations and in outpatients, antimalarials [HCQ] may reduce the progression of disease, prevent hospitalization, and are associated with reduced mortality." Yes, this was in the summer and perhaps the broader community is now more aligned.

I also think that there are some who question masks (my physician says the evidence supporting their efficacy is questionable) and the lockdowns (this guy is pretty interesting - "Do Lockdowns Work or Not?" - https://drmalcolmkendrick.org).

Although I believe the medical community is usually correct, and in agreement, a few recent books I've read have caused me to question much more than I used to. The diet/heart or lipid hypothesis is a good example. And if you are up for something disturbing, read "Bad Pharma - How Drug Companies Mislead Doctors and Harm Patients" by Ben Goldacre. The book does not just call out Big Pharma, but also universities, government agencies (including the FDA), health organizations and medical journals. It's pretty troubling, and as a result, not easy to read/stomach.

The HCQ disagreement was an interesting one, but I was not aware that remained a disagreement. And we continue to hear about the mask flip-flop at the onset of the pandemic, but I have not seen recent instances of that sort of dissent among the medical community. Those are the examples I am seeking.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Do you have examples of disagreement within the medical community? I have read a few comments to that effect but have not seen examples.

Ask The Experts (Covid-19 Vaccine) - Banned on YouTube & Facebook (Part 2 in description)

⁣ALSO WATCH ASK THE EXPERT'S PART 2 https://brandnewtube.com/watch/ask-the-experts-ii-oracle-films-covileaks-2021-bbc-panorama-response_OvssgcJXMblheFt.html

brandnewtube.com

 

[tpicou]

The HCQ disagreement was an interesting one, but I was not aware that remained a disagreement. And we continue to hear about the mask flip-flop at the onset of the pandemic, but I have not seen recent instances of that sort of dissent among the medical community. Those are the examples I am seeking.

Yeah the HCQ disagreement was largely due to a lack of placebo controlled studies. Since then the vast majority of studies have shown it doesn't do much of anything. That's how science works, though. Often knowledge changes as experiments and studies come in.

I have yet to see any legitimate study that shows masks do not mitigate the dispersion of respiratory droplets (for any type of infectious agent). Obviously they aren't magical shields that confer 100% protection. But they help. If people have something indicating the opposite from a legit journal I'd love to read it and spread it around the CBRNE community because that means we've been taking unnecessary precautions for decades.

 

[MattB]

Yeah the HCQ disagreement was largely due to a lack of placebo controlled studies. Since then the vast majority of studies have shown it doesn't do much of anything. That's how science works, though. Often knowledge changes as experiments and studies come in.

I have yet to see any legitimate study that shows masks do not mitigate the dispersion of respiratory droplets (for any type of infectious agent). Obviously they aren't magical shields that confer 100% protection. But they help. If people have something indicating the opposite from a legit journal I'd love to read it and spread it around the CBRNE community because that means we've been taking unnecessary precautions for decades.

On masks, I was speaking about the initial indication they were not helpful and then the about face - which continues to be regurgitated in these discussions as an explanation for why some don't wear them. My take is that was more practical (to conserve PPE supplies for medical professionals adequate supplies) versus scientific.

 

[fwafwow]

The HCQ disagreement was an interesting one, but I was not aware that remained a disagreement. And we continue to hear about the mask flip-flop at the onset of the pandemic, but I have not seen recent instances of that sort of dissent among the medical community. Those are the examples I am seeking.

The lockdown link is current and my doctor’s point on masks is recent - but I don’t know his basis (and will ask). I am also interested in other views within the medical community.

 

[MattB]

Ask The Experts (Covid-19 Vaccine) - Banned on YouTube & Facebook (Part 2 in description)

⁣ALSO WATCH ASK THE EXPERT'S PART 2 https://brandnewtube.com/watch/ask-the-experts-ii-oracle-films-covileaks-2021-bbc-panorama-response_OvssgcJXMblheFt.html

brandnewtube.com

No surprise they were banned from other platforms. When your video leads with a psychiatrist talking about a virus (one that apparently hasn't been identified), you have a problem.

 

[fwafwow]

Yeah the HCQ disagreement was largely due to a lack of placebo controlled studies. Since then the vast majority of studies have shown it doesn't do much of anything. That's how science works, though. Often knowledge changes as experiments and studies come in.

I’m not questioning this but I’ve not paid attention since August on the new studies of HCQ. Is there one or a few in particular of note?

 

[tpicou]

I’m not questioning this but I’ve not paid attention since August on the new studies of HCQ. Is there one or a few in particular of note?

Effect of Hydroxychloroquine on Clinical Status at 14 Days in Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19

This randomized trial compares the effects of hydroxychloroquine vs placebo on clinical status at 14 days (home, requiring noninvasive or invasive ventilation or extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, hospitalized, died) among adults hospitalized with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

jamanetwork.com

Randomized double-blinded placebo-controlled trial of hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin for virologic cure of non-severe Covid-19

HC±AZ does not facilitate virologic cure in patients with mild or asymptomatic Covid-19.

www.thelancet.com

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2016638

Here are three representative samples. In general the finding is that there isn't a statistically significant difference in outcomes when compared to placebo groups.

Edit: I should note that NEJM study was on postexposure prophylaxis which isn't the same as a treatment but is one of the main things people said HCQ might help with. The overall picture of HCQ use indicates that it isn't helpful for any aspect of covid treatment of prevention. That being said, it also doesn't seem to be meaningfully harmful either. But yeah.

 

[tpicou]

On masks, I was speaking about the initial indication they were not helpful and then the about face - which continues to be regurgitated in these discussions as an explanation for why some don't wear them. My take is that was more practical (to conserve PPE supplies for medical professionals adequate supplies) versus scientific.

Yeah Fauci came out and admitted his initial mask guidance was based on conservation of supplies for the medical community. Which, imho, is terrible public policy and is a really, really bad mark on his otherwise stellar career. How do you expect people to put faith in the public health community when you lie (and admit to lying) to them about something instead of coming out and saying the truth at the start. He should have said something as simple as, "Hey everyone, wearing a mask will help with both spread and protection. We might hit supply issues so please don't buy up all the N95s and instead wear cloth masks that will still help mitigate transmission."

That being said, there have been plenty of other public health blunders during all of this that are shameful. Saying some gatherings are totally fine (massive protests) while others aren't (insert anything else here) was another awful mark on both public health and science-based policy at large. There have been a few officials/scientists that have been consistent but sadly they were drowned out.

Those admittedly awful blunders aside, stuff like wearing a mask during a pandemic and not attending large gatherings are pretty standard mitigation techniques for communicable disease. Similarly, our vaccines are fantastic. I'm stoked to have had the opportunity to get vaccinated early and obviously highly recommend other people do the same when possible.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

No surprise they were banned from other platforms. When your video leads with a psychiatrist talking about a virus (one that apparently hasn't been identified), you have a problem.

Because FB and Twitter and youtube are the truth police, right? You obviously didn’t watch the entire video. Typical - everybody wants to cancel narratives that don’t fit their agenda.