Received the Vaccine today...

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jmez

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Mask stuff isn't cut and dry. The US medical community scoffed at Asian countries for many years over mask wearing during cold and flu season. The CDC, up until the summer had it right on their recommendations page, in a general population setting the wearing of any mask, other than a properly fitted N-95 respirator, (not mask), does not provide protection against airborne viruses. This was on their website long after they were calling for masks for all. There have been 0 landmark studies in the last year to have changed that.


There is still debate within the medical community on the effectiveness of masks during surgery. The science isn't settled there. You can go on Pub- Med and read peer reviewed studies both for and against.

Read the stuff from CIDRAP. All kinds of information, no conclusion on scientific proof that masks work. A lot of opinions and studies. Nothing conclusive for or against. Central theme through a lot of it is there is no concrete scientific proof either way, most of them think "it's a good idea" and you should really concetrate on distancing with situation avoidance to really make a difference. A few links below. There is a lot more there if you want to look it up.

















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MattB

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Because FB and Twitter and youtube are the truth police, right? You obviously didn’t watch the entire video. Typical - everybody wants to cancel narratives that don’t fit their agenda.
No, I did not watch the whole video. When the lead in claims no virus has been identified to cause the disease and thus there can be no virus to target with a vaccine, and that the vaccine has not proven to be effective, I am not going to trust anything else contained within. Why waste my time?
 

tpicou

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Mask stuff isn't cut and dry. The US medical community scoffed at Asian countries for many years over mask wearing during cold and flu season. The CDC, up until the summer had it right on their recommendations page, in a general population setting the wearing of any mask, other than a properly fitted N-95 respirator, (not mask), does not provide protection against airborne viruses. This was on their website long after they were calling for masks for all. There have been 0 landmark studies in the last year to have changed that.


There is still debate within the medical community on the effectiveness of masks during surgery. The science isn't settled there. You can go on Pub- Med and read peer reviewed studies both for and against.

Read the stuff from CIDRAP. All kinds of information, no conclusion on scientific proof that masks work. A lot of opinions and studies. Nothing conclusive for or against. Central theme through a lot of it is there is no concrete scientific proof either way, most of them think "it's a good idea" and you should really concetrate on distancing with situation avoidance to really make a difference. A few links below. There is a lot more there if you want to look it up.

















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There is a good review in PNAS from last month on the evidence regarding viral transmission and population impact of wearing masks.


Naturally, population level analyses are difficult to come by because you can't exactly do large-scale controlled studies on the efficacy of mask wearing.

That being said, there are quite a bit of in vitro/ laboratory controlled studies looking at both aerosol and droplet dispersion through various materials both of infectious agents and inert particles.
 

fwafwow

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Here are three representative samples. In general the finding is that there isn't a statistically significant difference in outcomes when compared to placebo groups.

Edit: I should note that NEJM study was on postexposure prophylaxis which isn't the same as a treatment but is one of the main things people said HCQ might help with. The overall picture of HCQ use indicates that it isn't helpful for any aspect of covid treatment of prevention. That being said, it also doesn't seem to be meaningfully harmful either. But yeah.
Thank you. I'm not arguing in favor of HCQ - I took it during my symptoms, and I have no idea whether it had any impact. Just interested in the studies and the intellectual exercise.

The study in JAMA is interesting - and my first reaction was "but they were hospitalized"/some in bad shape, so the Lancet article covers my response. I'm not an MD, but I have a hard time with Lancet after some of the things that were reported with respect to their gatekeeping capabilities on the same subject.
 

tpicou

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Thank you. I'm not arguing in favor of HCQ - I took it during my symptoms, and I have no idea whether it had any impact. Just interested in the studies and the intellectual exercise.

The study in JAMA is interesting - and my first reaction was "but they were hospitalized"/some in bad shape, so the Lancet article covers my response. I'm not an MD, but I have a hard time with Lancet after some of the things that were reported with respect to their gatekeeping capabilities on the same subject.

Yeah for sure. I should note that I'm not a MD either so I don't mean to give medical advice (I'm a phd who works on CBRNE-related basic science such as biomechanics, tissue engineering, infectious disease, etc). My personal opinion on taking something like HCQ, since it doesn't seem to be harmful, is "go for it if remdesivir or an antibody cocktail isn't available." Plus for a while it did seem like it could be useful. But yeah I'm not a medical doctor so that's just my personal opinion.

Oh and believe me, I have issues with the Lancet too and they go back to the "vaccines cause autism" paper from a long time ago. Well, that and I prefer American journals over UK/Euro ones because we are obviously better at everything. 😎

Also from your signature: stop the bleed is a great org! We got everyone at work to take the class around here and it was great.
 

fwafwow

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Yeah for sure. I should note that I'm not a MD either so I don't mean to give medical advice (I'm a phd who works on CBRNE-related basic science such as biomechanics, tissue engineering, infectious disease, etc). My personal opinion on taking something like HCQ, since it doesn't seem to be harmful, is "go for it if remdesivir or an antibody cocktail isn't available." Plus for a while it did seem like it could be useful. But yeah I'm not a medical doctor so that's just my personal opinion.

Oh and believe me, I have issues with the Lancet too and they go back to the "vaccines cause autism" paper from a long time ago. Well, that and I prefer American journals over UK/Euro ones because we are obviously better at everything. 😎

Also from your signature: stop the bleed is a great org! We got everyone at work to take the class around here and it was great.
Stop the Bleed is great - and that's a good reminder I need to do another refresher course soon. I wish it were more widely known, so it's good to here your work had a class.

The Lancet came up in that Ben Goldacre book I mentioned above, along with a few other "prestigious" journals. While I too love to toot the "USA!" horn, I was left disappointed in us, the UK, etc. I almost wish I had not read the book.

Well, neither of us are MDs, but you actually know what you are talking about!
 
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Marbles

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I have a hard time with Lancet after some of the things that were reported with respect to their gatekeeping capabilities on the same subject.

Scientific publishing in all disciples has issues and for years there has been discussion of a crisis in academic circles. None of it should be treated as infallible. Reputable publications (like the Lancet) are a convenient filter, but nothing more. Each study must still be assessed on its own merits and in the context of other available evidence. The assessment is also subject to change as the availabile evidence and our understanding of it changes.
 
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William Hanson (live2hunt)

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I love how you tout that this thread has remained civil, then have the nerve to say that people question the vaccine out of ignorance. Which one is it? Backhanded snarks, keeping it civil? My brother has worked in this field for 30 years. We've had many discussions on vaccine and biologics development. He is cautiously optimistic, but still has his doubts. Quite a different approach from the "I've gotten my two shots and I'm bulletproof. Those who don't get vaccinated and die are Darwin award winners" crowd.

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The vast majority of fear surrounding the vaccines is absolutely without question out of ignorance, that's not an insult it's a fact. If you are frightened about it because of ignorance, well that's your own fault as all the information is readily available at your fingertips just like everyone else. I know wading through mountains of research isn't quite as efficient as having a conversation with your brother, but the information is out there. If you are offended at the term "ignorance", well frankly that is your problem as it was used as an accurate descriptor not some derogatory ad hominem attack. It belongs to each of us to PROPERLY educate ourselves and sadly most don't, but instead they choose to exist in their echo chambers of confirmation bias. Questioning things is great, but don't mistake general mistrust and fear for sound critical thinking.

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MattB

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The vast majority of fear surrounding the vaccines is absolutely without question out of ignorance, that's not an insult it's a fact. If you are frightened about it because of ignorance, well that's your own fault as all the information is readily available at your fingertips just like everyone else. I know wading through mountains of research isn't quite as efficient as having a conversation with your brother, but the information is out there. If you are offended at the term "ignorance", well frankly that is your problem as it was used as an accurate descriptor not some derogatory ad hominem attack. It belongs to each of us to PROPERLY educate ourselves and sadly most don't, but instead they choose to exist in their echo chambers of confirmation bias. Questioning things is great, but don't mistake general mistrust and fear for sound critical thinking.

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You mean we can't glean our understanding of COVID from the meme thread?
 

fwafwow

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Can someone please point me to the research on long term side effects of each vaccine?
It is being intentionally obfuscated by a minuscule group of adepts within the slightly broader group of the modern-day priest class. On a prospective basis.
 
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