Real elk hunting!

[cnelk]

How is pressure from hunters and treehuggers in CO any different than pressure from wolves, mountain lions, black bears and grizzlies is some of the other surrounding states?

You’ve obviously never hunted Wyoming

 

[Coveyleader]

How is pressure from hunters and treehuggers in CO any different than pressure from wolves, mountain lions, black bears and grizzlies is some of the other surrounding states?

Quick answer on this.............

There are no tree huggers where I hunt in CO, nor in the other state I hunt so that's cancelled out

Wolves, they're here in CO, but not an issue where I hunt. They were not an issue where I hunted in the other state so it cancels out.

Mountain lions, CO has them so that cancels out.

Black bears, CO has them, tons of them, probably more, so again canceled out.

Grizzly bears, believe it or not, this is a plus as it keeps hunter numbers low as many don't want to deal with them which is good if you don't mind the extra work/precautions.

So, what this really tells me is tag allocation matters as hunter pressure is the biggest issue in CO.

 

[trophyhill]

You’ve obviously never hunted Wyoming

That is correct. That would probably be like comparing the Gila to CO 80-81.

 

[trophyhill]

Quick answer on this.............

There are no tree huggers where I hunt in CO, nor in the other state I hunt so that's cancelled out

Wolves, they're here in CO, but not an issue where I hunt. They were not an issue where I hunted in the other state so it cancels out.

Mountain lions, CO has them so that cancels out.

Black bears, CO has them, tons of them, probably more, so again canceled out.

Grizzly bears, believe it or not, this is a plus as it keeps hunter numbers low as many don't want to deal with them which is good if you don't mind the extra work/precautions.

So, what this really tells me is tag allocation matters as hunter pressure is the biggest issue in CO.

So do you think they will make rifle hunts draw now too? If not they are just kicking the can down the road

 

[Coveyleader]

So do you think they will make rifle hunts draw now too? If not they are just kicking the can down the road

I used to be pretty active in these things, but as of late, I just don't pay attention as it really comes down to what the WC/DIV wants.

I'm convinced nobody knows what is going to happen. The rumors will get heavy, especially as we approach the next five year structure. To be up front, I could care less if they limit rifles or not. Sure it will make a better experience in a lot of ways, but I only bow hunt so it's not something I concern myself with. Truth be told, archery seasons have been flooded with rifles and it wouldn't surprise me if the archery seasons are shortened and limited, while rifle seasons are expanded. As I mentioned above, elk to me are way down on the enjoyment level most likely due to the number of people in the woods. I'm just glad I can do it still, put alot of meat in the freezer, but my enjoyment starts way before, and way after September.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

How is pressure from hunters and treehuggers in CO any different than pressure from wolves, mountain lions, black bears and grizzlies is some of the other surrounding states?

Those predators typically...
1) Have better aim. They're more likely to make a (humane) kill than many hunters, including WKRs.
2) Will expend the effort required to make an honest attempt at recovering the dead animal. This is contrary to many hunters, including WKRs.
3) Do not approach game wanting to take selfies.
4) Do not leave used TP to blow in the wind.
5) Smell less offensive than many hunters, including WKRs.
6) Do not keep killing until they find an animal that they want to tag.
7) Kill to eat rather than to stroke their delicate little egos showing the world and Rokslide elite just how special they are in their feeble little minds.

Edit...
This was just for fun and was not meant to hurt any specific individual's feelings.

 

[SoloWilderness]

Being a Colorado native, I'm not sure I even know what an un-pressured elk is.... so, if it's all I've ever known, is it real elk hunting? I mean they sure taste like elk, and all the pressure pushes them right into the hell holes I hunt. I would like to see more mature bulls, and less tags, with a good chance at a nice 6x6 being a bit more regular than an every 3-4 years kind of thing.

 

[stanginthe11s]

5miles, the term entitled was to the statement that its not a real hunt unless the animals do as you wish. however, everyone is certainly entitled to hunt the way they want. what I don't understand is how we can complain about other hunters pressuring elk when we are also out there doing the very thing we complain about? if it truly is a problem will any of us really take the first step and give up hunting so the next guy can have his "real" hunt? and honestly its disappointing to hear that term used, you may not be old so what do you think we did before we had all this technology and calls? guess us old guys never had a real hunt.

 

[Scooter90254]

I understand what the OP is saying.

Normal Elk hunt.
Look for fresh sign, work the mountain, maybe even try to call one in.

Colorado OTC hunt.
Drive around and look for a trailhead jammed full of cars. You know there are ELK in the area once you find that.
Bomb on into the group and find a good ridge. Sit and wait until someone pushed ek by you.

Both are hunting, I guess. Colorado just feels a little different.

 

[5MilesBack]

what I don't understand is how we can complain about other hunters pressuring elk when we are also out there doing the very thing we complain about?

I've hunted some areas a lot in the past and while I hunt them a lot, the elk always still acted like unpressured elk year after year. So is what I do the same as what everyone else does? Apparently not. Because when I have an area to myself for at least a few days, the hunting "as I expect it to be" is always good. But when the areas get filled with other hunters and recreationalists, the elk just aren't the same. Perhaps it's just a numbers game, which is also what the OP is talking about. CO needs to start "severely" restricting tags for quality hunts.

This isn't about killing, and this isn't even about getting on elk.......which is still very possible even with high pressure. But the difference in how much I enjoy the hunt is huge. When you experience the good stuff (or real hunting in other terms) it's night and day difference. For me it's a similar classification between a rifle season hunt in Oct or Nov and a bow hunt in September. The enjoyment factor difference is HUGE for me between those. Which is why I bow hunt in Sept. Again.......just different preferences......not entitlements. But IMO if everyone got to experience "the good stuff", we'd be in even worse shape for hunting right now, because everyone would be doing whatever they had to do to experience that every year. And "the good stuff" isn't just calling in an elk.....even if it's a huge bull.

I'm getting to a point where I don't HAVE to hunt anymore. In the past I kind of had no choice, that's just who I was.....an elk hunter. These days I'd rather not hunt.......unless it's real hunting. You know.......the "good stuff". Killing elk without that, just isn't the same for me. I'd rather have real hunting and eat my tag every year, than kill every year without the real hunting part. How it happens, and how it's done is more important to me.

 

[stanginthe11s]

I've hunted some areas a lot in the past and while I hunt them a lot, the elk always still acted like unpressured elk year after year. So is what I do the same as what everyone else does?

that's the very definition of pressuring elk. do you believe those elk really just enjoyed your presence and getting killed by you? sure, one person alone has less affect than 2 or more but there's an effect none the less. I did say we 3 times in my statement yet you seem to take it personal, why? just to be clear, I do agree there are too many people in some areas but they deserve to be there as much as you and I so how do address that? maybe educating people on proper hunting etiquette would help so there is less crowding or teaching newcomers how to hunt elk so they are less intrusive?
I know I have no problem calling elk in colorado but I'm also not afraid to make a hunt be what I want it to be even if that takes work. could it be better? I don't know because to me a "real hunt" isn't sitting by my truck bugling and having big bulls run to me so I can just load them up. I'm happy with whatever god sends me and ill continue to enjoy any time I have in the outdoors all the same as long as I am allowed

 

[Coveyleader]

I do agree there are too many people in some areas but they deserve to be there as much as you and I so how do address that? maybe educating people on proper hunting etiquette would help so there is less crowding or teaching newcomers how to hunt elk so they are less intrusive?

We address it by limiting tags, end of story.

Look at the Kenai/Russian River in AK. Everyone fishing shoulder to shoulder. Is it fun? Maybe for some. Does everyone have the right to be there? For sure. Do they catch fish? Defiantly! Is it what I would call salmon fishing? Hardly!

This is the modern day CO elk hunt for everyone to enjoy!

 

[farmermail]

What is real elk hunting? Well, my eyes have been opened, and it is NOT Colorado. I had a chance to hunt another state this year for the first time ever and lets just say, this next five year structure the CBA and other groups should be pushing hard for limits on elk/tag allocations.

The time has come for such groups to get vocal about the current situation occurring in OTC units in CO. Regardless if you kill elk, CO is not elk hunting in any way shape or form compared to what I experienced in a "non draw" unit.

As a resident of CO, I'm already trying to figure out how to hunt out of state next year.

I lived/hunted in CO for years (way back in the 1990's), and I completely agree too much hunting pressure is frustrating/maddening/ruins an experience. However, I then moved to UT and hunted there for 15 years, where attempting to draw a branch antlered bull tag takes 10 years, maybe more. I now live in ID, and it is similar (for folks in ID, can you say "McCall tag"?) to CO for OTC units. Herds of elk/deer are, in general, not increasing (overall, certainly local populations can/will be exceptions) and habitat is not improving (drought for 20 years, fires, etc.). Hunting opportunity is only going to get worse due to fewer animals. Would we rather sit on a couch, waiting to draw a tag or at least get out and have a 5 or 10% chance of taking an animal? I think that is the question for western hunters at this point. No easy answer in my humble opinion.

 

[Gargantuan]

“Elk hunting” can take many forms. Could mean hiking 10+ miles a day or it could mean hunting over an alfalfa field right off the road. Hunt where you’re able and never look a gift horse in the mouth if you’re given an opportunity.

 

[5MilesBack]

I did say we 3 times in my statement yet you seem to take it personal, why?

Not personal........just answering your questions, and/or clarifying for some of your statements. Some guys go out and never make a peep, some only cow call, some bugle, and that's all real hunting to them. That's great. We all just have different perceptions and opinions on what constitutes "real hunting" to us. "Real hunting" isn't even the proper term for me. Putting "fun" in the middle of that would be a better descriptor for me. Because "real hunting" could describe someone busting their tail covering 15 miles every day for an entire season and never even seeing an elk. It's all semantics, but the bottom line is.....it gets more and more crowded every year. And the more crowded it gets, the less "fun" it is.

I could go out and set up my tent and my camp and that's "real camping". Then someone comes and sets up camp near me.....it's still real camping, but is no longer real "fun" camping.

 

[stanginthe11s]

I agree with what you say and no the term real hunting isn't the correct term which is what a lot of us were saying and what the post was about.
overcrowding isn't something limited to colorado or even elk so I'm sure we all know how it is and I can tell you limiting tags doesn't have the effect you might think it does. I hunt OTC colorado not because its easy to get but because I'm not limited to where I can go or when, and because of that I can and do have the kind of hunt you refer to. I see so many people complain about finding 50 cars at a trail head, yet they park there anyway and go out just adding to the problem. If you ever run into me out there, you'll know it because I'm the guy who will ask or tell you where I'm going so we don't ruin our hunt, and if you're going to the same spot I will gladly give you that. it's called respect, and that will have a greater effect on our hunts than anything else, period.
limiting tags doesn't have any effect on non-hunters or small game hunters so you will still have pressured elk and no parking, it also will not make them instantly start talking or less weary of people. its far better to act than to react, and unfortunately we are at a point where we are reacting and that usually has a bad outcome. you cannot recondition all the elk so even if you cut the number of hunters in half they will still be the same elk.
Colorado already has limited tag areas so how is that working out? and we all know residents apply for those areas but if they don't get them they go to OTC areas so now this becomes an issue of not wanting out of state hunters which then becomes unfair. license allocation favors residents as it should but having 100 residents in one area is no different than having a 50/50 split in an area so we then circle back to who is willing to give up hunting to please the next guy. and if it truly bothers you then why go out and kill 3 or more elk in the place you are complaining about? I'm not clear on the mentality of " I had such a bad time that I did it 2 more times ". the overcrowding debate is one of the hardest you'll ever have in this sport, and only by working together and being open minded will you see any positive outcome so you have to be able to see all sides.

 

[betterluckythangood]

And it happened 4 months ago...

With the onset of more former otc units becoming draw units, you will get your wish in the next few years i'm sure. But not making all rifle hunts a draw, its likely that a good chunk of archery hunters will be applying for draw hunts and picking up their dusty rifles for the otc rifle hunts if they are serious about putting meat on their tables. I know i will be.

Ditto!!!!

 

[5MilesBack]

Colorado already has limited tag areas so how is that working out?

Still too many hunters. I swear that there are people hunting these draw units that don't even have that tag. They have become insanely crowded too. There's a draw unit I've hunted a lot with vouchers. I watched it get more and more crowded every year, even though tag numbers haven't changed. The last time, I thought maybe they all just chose where I was to hunt so I went exploring. The entire unit was packed, all season long.

To compare.......about 10 years ago I only saw one other hunter/camp in there for two straight weeks. And that was camping and hunting right off the main roads. Normally I have a "plan A" every morning, and every evening. I rarely needed anything beyond that. The last time in there, I got to plan E+ a few times, and there were still people there......and I rarely use trailheads or trails for that matter.....they're even worse. Things have definitely changed......even with the same number of tags.

I grew up fly fishing from the time I could hold a rod back in the 60's. I haven't been fishing in a few years now, just because of the crowds. I prefer rivers, and the rivers are too crowded. Elk hunting will soon go the way that fly fishing did for me. But it is what it is. Of all the things........my wife is the one trying to convince me to move to WY. I'm starting to come around to that.......and WY was a second home for me while growing up. We spent a lot of time there, especially for our fly fishing trips.

Oh, and when I do run into someone else out there, I always ask them first "where they're heading", so I can go the other way. Hunting where people aren't, is priority number one......even if there aren't any elk there.

 

[stanginthe11s]

those of us who have been sportsmen long enough have all seen what you describe, and as you say regardless of the tag numbers being the same somehow there are still more people out there which is why I don't believe limits will help the way many hope.
the 2 things that I've seen make the biggest negative change over the years are respect and the disconnect between sportsmen worldwide. it use to be that you would drive down a road and if you saw a truck you would assume that hunter had that mountain side and move on, now if you see a truck you park next to it and run in then get upset because you ran into another hunter. this happened to me this year and the response was " I didn't think anyone was up here", when I said really? cause you parked next to my car all I got was a blank stare. that's called a complete lack of respect and common sense.
the other problem is the big swing in state regs. you have states that don't offer tags to non res, then you have states that let anyone in. If states got together and created regs. that were equal and fair then people could go to other places instead of being forced into one area. you have to realize that for some people hunting elk is a dream, and for various reasons some can only realize that dream in colorado, as flawed as it may be. Now if you open up other states, then that takes the burden off that single state. the RMEF is trying to help by reintroducing elk in other states and in time that will reduce the number of hunters in colorado because I'm sure most would rather hunt near home.
I believe as sportsmen we should look at ourselves when things aren't right instead of just complaining and blaming others but that might be frightening. If you complain about something long enough you will not have to worry, cause it will be gone. you know the saying, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
As far as anyone wanting a certain type of hunt, well that's great, but don't blame others if you cant achieve it. like I said, we make our own hunts or break them. sure it may not be as easy as it once was, but you cant always have it easy. I have hunted areas that are hit hard, and I have bugled a herd bull while surrounded by hunters and yes there's nothing more exciting than a pissed off bull snapping trees wanting to fight you as you pretend to steal his cows but I don't get upset if it doesn't happen every time, instead I sit there and say what can I do to continue making it happen.

 

[Hnthrdr]

You’ve obviously never hunted Wyoming

When all you have hunted in Co mostly OTC, Wyoming is like fantasy island haha, buddy went up to an easy to draw cow tag unit, with 0 boots on the ground experience. Picked a spot, hiked in sees a 360+ bull, several above average bucks, next day calls a herd with 2 nice bulls and 20 cows in, let’s a guy he is with shoot the lead cow at 100 yards. He is a great elk hunter and caller, but you don’t find that in most OTC or east to draw Co units thats for dam sure