Questions for Form and other "small caliber for big game" folks

[Article 4]

This quote is pretty funny in light of the prior 2 posts.

Not cleaning barrels is delightful. Been shooting ARs without touching the bore for at least a decade.

I love the process of cleaning. every piece and part. Take care of my kit and it takes care of me.

To each their own

Cheers

 

[The Guide]

I just wish there were a good factory supressor ready rifle option for 6mm creed..... pretty slim pickins.

Gen 1 RAP in 6CM is threaded and ready to go. Howa did have barreled actions in 6CM but they have dried up. I've not tried any Ruger American Gen 2 rifles yet. Right now, you have 2 options, cheap rifles and expensive rifles with little in-between.

Jay

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Ok. no worries.

Your actions show you follow backgrounds well. you seem to follow quite a bit of knowledge from the influencers here. Apology accepted

What I did was went out and tried it to see if it was all full of shit, as requested by said “influencers”.

You see which way I “lean” on topics now

 

[fwafwow]

I tried to get a good one but seem to suck at it. This is 1,100 rounds with only action wipe downs. Just wiped down after a hunt about a week ago or so.

View attachment 805101
View attachment 805102

View attachment 805103

View attachment 805105

You, Sir, are disgusting! (But I'm very impressed you knocked out these pics so quickly!)

 

[Article 4]

What I did was went out and tried it to see if it was all full of shit, as requested by said “influencers”.

You see which way I “lean” on topics now

Probably one of the few who do.

Cheers!

 

[LONE HUNTER]

Probably one of the few who do.

Cheers!

I wouldn't say that. believe it or not I bet a fair number of the adherents landed on this site because their shit wasn't working.

I found Formidolosus' posts probably 6 years ago about rifle scope mounting and reliable scopes because I kept having my scopes lose zero and I was sick of it.

So I tried what he suggested and it worked...... I'm willing to bet that's how it goes more often than not.

 

[The Guide]

What I did was went out and tried it to see if it was all full of shit, as requested by said “influencers”.

You see which way I “lean” on topics now

You mean you took the data, you tested the data, and then you followed the data, and it lead you to being a better rifleman and killer of living things? That seems to be the path that I was on and that the data shared on Rokslide accelerated for me.

Jay

 

[Antares]

Ok. no worries.

Your actions show you follow backgrounds well. you seem to follow quite a bit of knowledge from the influencers here. Apology accepted

When you mount your rifle, does the chip on your shoulder get in the way?

 

[Shraggs]

This ^ is exactly and exactly the same topic that I also implemented and holy cow it worked!

Then, the 223/77… nope, wait what, hmm. I better test for myself. Damn that worked too…

Etc.

Cheers, right

Edit, to post 209

 

[The Guide]

When you mount your rifle, does the chip on your shoulder get in the way?

No, but the salty tears makes for Hella rust issues so he cleans rifles more than he shoots them!

Jay

 

[Schmo]

Sounds like we struck a nerve with @Article 4, but maybe we just bumped the chip on his shoulder. Article 4: “You follow influencers”. Me: “No, but I tested clearly presented data for myself and found it to be true, so that’s my method now.” Article 4: “You’re passive aggressive, and you follow influencers.”

That about sums it up. Sigh

 

[mtnbound]

You mean you took the data, you tested the data, and then you followed the data, and it lead you to being a better rifleman and killer of living things? That seems to be the path that I was on and that the data shared on Rokslide accelerated for me.

Jay

The same goes for me. RS gives one so much more data to work with.

 

[DagOtto]

Sounds like we struck a nerve with @Article 4, but maybe we just bumped the chip on his shoulder. Article 4: “You follow influencers”. Me: “No, but I tested clearly presented data for myself and found it to be true, so that’s my method now.” Article 4: “You’re passive aggressive, and you follow influencers.”

That about sums it up. Sigh

For one, I understand the angst that some folks including Article 4 and Joseph Von Benedict are expressing. My initial reaction was much the same. Even after starting to test and adopt some of the things espoused and seeing immediate benefits, I still am not drinking coolaid and I still am skeptical.

I think it's important to remember that most of what Form and Formies are espousing flies directly in the face of what most hunters have been taught from the time they first picked up a gun. Some of us have been hunting for many decades with great passion and success. Many of us have spent an enormous amount of time, energy, passion and money trying to be better marksmen, with better gear and with more affective humane results. In some cases those who were in the military were taught certain practices and told that their lives depended on following those practices. Many of us have also diligently read from other deeply experienced hunting experts and have followed their advice in depth. And after all of that, many of us think we're pretty darned good.

Then one night you fumble across a Form podcast or a Rokslide thread and you are smashed in the proverbial nose by a bunch of younger, hipper, more enlightened super-hunters who are preaching from the book of Forman.

I am here to tell you that that experience is just as shocking, and not nearly as much fun, as walking into a sauna packed with the (naked) Norwegian women's ski team.

Let's examine the Five Demandments

1. Thou shalt never clean thy firearm, lest it lose its sacred patina.
2. Thou shalt smite the moose only with the .223 caliber, for it is decreed sufficient.
3. Thou shalt hold match bullets as the greatest hunting projectiles, even though their makers proclaim otherwise.
4. Thou shalt proclaim the Tikka as the one true consistent and reliable cheap production firearm.
5. Thou shall shun Leupold and Vortex, for they are deemed untrustworthy in the eyes of the Formidiliocous.

Compare these five statements against what the main stream advice and practice has been from almost every other expert hunting source for one hundred years.

In short, it feels like blashemous heresey. And for many of us it causes us to want to lash out in frustration and fear. For many of us, it is painful to contemplate that the path we thought was the correct one, is not the right one.

It hurts to discover that at best; you've been following a bunch of donkeys for the last 40 years: and at worst; you have been activey lied to for a generation.

I'd just ask that you who have already crossed-over to the good path remember to treat the rest of us with the respect, grace and patience that I am sure you don't feel we deserve!

 

[wawa]

book of Forman

Rename Rokslide this

 

[Article 4]

When you mount your rifle, does the chip on your shoulder get in the way?

sometimes. how did you know?

 

[Article 4]

Sounds like we struck a nerve with @Article 4, but maybe we just bumped the chip on his shoulder. Article 4: “You follow influencers”. Me: “No, but I tested clearly presented data for myself and found it to be true, so that’s my method now.” Article 4: “You’re passive aggressive, and you follow influencers.”

That about sums it up. Sigh

Awwwwww Schmo. appropriate name

 

[Shraggs]

For one, I understand the angst that some folks including Article 4 and Joseph Von Benedict are expressing. My initial reaction was much the same. Even after starting to test and adopt some of the things espoused and seeing immediate benefits, I still am not drinking coolaid and I still am skeptical.

I think it's important to remember that most of what Form and Formies are espousing flies directly in the face of what most hunters have been taught from the time they first picked up a gun. Some of us have been hunting for many decades with great passion and success. Many of us have spent an enormous amount of time, energy, passion and money trying to be better marksmen, with better gear and with more affective humane results. In some cases those who were in the military were taught certain practices and told that their lives depended on following those practices. Many of us have also diligently read from other deeply experienced hunting experts and have followed their advice in depth. And after all of that, many of us think we're pretty darned good.

Then one night you fumble across a Form podcast or a Rokslide thread and you are smashed in the proverbial nose by a bunch of younger, hipper, more enlightened super-hunters who are preaching from the book of Forman.

I am here to tell you that that experience is just as shocking, and not nearly as much fun, as walking into a sauna packed with the (naked) Norwegian women's ski team.

Let's examine the Five Demandments

1. Thou shalt never clean thy firearm, lest it lose its sacred patina.
2. Thou shalt smite the moose only with the .223 caliber, for it is decreed sufficient.
3. Thou shalt hold match bullets as the greatest hunting projectiles, even though their makers proclaim otherwise.
4. Thou shalt proclaim the Tikka as the one true consistent and reliable cheap production firearm.
5. Thou shall shun Leupold and Vortex, for they are deemed untrustworthy in the eyes of the Formidiliocous.

Compare these five statements against what the main stream advice and practice has been from almost every other expert hunting source for one hundred years.

In short, it feels like blashemous heresey. And for many of us it causes us to want to lash out in frustration and fear. For many of us, it is painful to contemplate that the path we thought was the correct one, is not the right one.

It hurts to discover that at best; you've been following a bunch of donkeys for the last 40 years: and at worst; you have been activey lied to for a generation.

I'd just ask that you who have already crossed-over to the good path remember to treat the rest of us with the respect, grace and patience that I am sure you don't feel we deserve!

Rokslide really is unique place for exchange of information on all kinds of equipment. You take or give what you want.

Ive absolutely adopted much of the low recoil, heavy for caliber highly frangible bullets with scopes that work. Still have and use sone “fudd” gear I enjoy too.

I have never been an early adopter, but have always remained open to new ideas, processes and technology.

Timing was perfect for me to discover this unique perspective. I had numerous scope issues, and I was stuck trying on my own to move from a mbr 300 yard hunter to something more fulfilling.

There a lot of folks here opposed and are active in most threads voicing their opinions. If you’re successful killer and have not experienced scope and other anomalies let it go and rock on. If you’re searching due to anomalies or just desire a different level of excellence then buy a few items and test. Maybe meet up with a formie and shoot with them.

 

[LONE HUNTER]

If you’re successful killer and have not experienced scope and other anomalies let it go and rock on. If you’re searching due to anomalies or just desire a different level of excellence then buy a few items and test. Maybe meet up with a formie and shoot with them.

^^^ This 100%. There's a billion ways to skin a cat. No need to shit on someone else if what they say they are doing works for them on either side of the argument.

Where I take issue, is someone who hasn't even tried something and then proceeds to shit on it and say it's wrong and doesn't work. That's just plain disingenuous and stupid.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Let's examine the Five Demandments

1. Thou shalt never clean thy firearm, lest it lose its sacred patina.
2. Thou shalt smite the moose only with the .223 caliber, for it is decreed sufficient.
3. Thou shalt hold match bullets as the greatest hunting projectiles, even though their makers proclaim otherwise.
4. Thou shalt proclaim the Tikka as the one true consistent and reliable cheap production firearm.
5. Thou shall shun Leupold and Vortex, for they are deemed untrustworthy in the eyes of the Formidiliocous.

THIS is where all the push back falls on its face. You imply demands or forcing things and others react the same way when all that has been presented is data and factual reality, not rhetoric, that you can institute or not as a choice. But ignoring the data and acting like you HAVE to do those things and just pushing back is foolish.

1) The data shows that generally speaking routinely/proactively cleaning a rifle bore doesn't see to affect functional accuracy hence if you choose to the data supports it likely being okay to test out on your personal rifle too. If you do have an accuracy degradation at some point feel free to clean and see if you breath life back into the barrel.

2) SPECIFIC bullets in 223 can deliver more than adequate wound channels to ethically and quickly kill animals and it has been proven thus you MAY test this out for yourself building on what has been demonstrated by others as being affective and decide if you personally like it. One size doesn't fit all. The benefit of the smaller caliber being folks statistically shoot them better both on first round impacts and follow up shots.

3) It has been demonstrated what certain fragmenting bullets do (not all) and how those are effective terminally and also have the added benefit of higher BC to buck wind better and improve the chances the shooter hits where aiming. It has been discussed when that might be desirable and when other bullets might be desirable.

4) When stuff works it works... the are some cons to the tikka and many pros.

5) It has been demonstrated many/most models of Leopold, Vortex, and many others fail to hold zero. HOWEVER there is a model of Leupold that absolutely holds zero and has been repeatedly mentioned a by Form and demonstrated on the drop test. Just like there is a specific model of Maven that works but doesn't imply the rest do. The data isn't hidden away and only interpreted by the eyes of one, its right in front of our faces with encouragement to verify for oneself.

 

[ElPollo]

^^^ This 100%. There's a billion ways to skin a cat. No need to shit on someone else if what they say they are doing works for them on either side of the argument.

Where I take issue, is someone who hasn't even tried something and then proceeds to shit on it and say it's wrong and doesn't work. That's just plain disingenuous and stupid.

I honestly don’t see a lot of people telling experienced hunters they are doing things wrong on this forum. Most of what I see is inexperienced people coming to Rokslide with an expectation that they need more gun than they actually do and hearing forum members suggest options that are easier to shoot and still effective. If someone has been shooting a 375 H&H on little south Texas deer the size of big dogs since the dinosaurs walked the earth, I think that’s super cool and I’m sure it will work. I just don’t think it’s the best advice for a newbie.