Proposed Deer plan for Central Idaho(not official)

[Gobbler36]

Find a halfway point between the free for all we currently have and controlled hunt only. The voices calling for controlled hunt only are only growing louder every year, but I would like to see a baby step in that direction that could appease those crowds. I do think that the current model is living on borrowed time. As it stands currently I could hunt mule deer every day from August 30 until December 31 if I’m willing to jump units and some will. Even our rifle seasons are staggered in a way that it jams everybody who travels to the less pressured areas away from the treasure valley but doesn’t harvest into 2 units for the final week of rifle season. How much could we alleviate pressure just on those 2 units alone by making people choose a zone. It’s not unprecedented since we also do it for elk. Better ability to open and close the faucet as it were for season dates and harvest restrictions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Completely agree
the free for all has gotten outta hand and 39 this year the last week of season was an utter mad house

 

[Gobbler36]

I've hunted Utah general tags twice in the last 4 years. They have all the same issues that we have except you only get to do it every few years. There's more than a few guys who are committed to taking mature deer in Idaho and they get it done year in and year out. Maybe they're a little lucky, maybe they work harder than everyone else, but the bucks are there.

If I was experiencing some of the things discussed in this thread I'd switch areas. Continuing to do the exact same thing over and over while expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

Dude I’ve hunted multiple areas in The same unit and multiple units it’s the same story everywhere. yes You can find bucks if you can sit out there majority Of the season but we both know it could be better here.

I could say the same for your Utah experience, hunted it several times and was able to get on several nice bucks on a long weekend unfortunately couldn’t pull it all together with the bow

 

[Spoonbill]

No it’s illegal to use them attached to your weapon people are getting around it by using thermal Binos and monoculars not attached

Here is the rule as published in the regs. It just says “aid” so monoculars and binoculars would qualify.

 

[Gobbler36]

Hmmm well I know of 4 different people this year that used thermals during big game seasons.

 

[Spoonbill]

Hmmm well I know of 4 different people this year that used thermals during big game seasons.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law. It’s a good opportunity to inform them what the regs say so they don’t wind up in legal trouble.

 

[littlebigtine]

I would really like to see people stop thinking that more regulations turns into better deer hunting. I'm so tired of hearing that people want to limit our own opportunity.

I agree not to limit opportunities, but I know there are ways IDFG can improve hunting quality while maintaining current opportunities. And to be clear, im for raising tag cost in order to do so as long as it requires more from the agency. All in all im happy with how IDFG manages but id like to see incentives(via season dates or greater opportunity) to hunt with a bow or muzzy. The long range rifle game is one that Im done playing and my general rifle season enjoyment and, frankly, safety has been compromised. Ive been shot over twice in two seasons and each time the shooter had no idea. This is not hunting imo or really shouldnt be an option in the most congested hunt of the year. Everybody knows someone or has watched someone shoot at 1000+ yards. Where will the line be drawn? Im playing devils advocate a bit with you Dioni because like it or not what you say carries a bit more weight just like Robby and whoever else has a social media presence. Do you really want to relinquish control by just saying what you don’t want?

 

[Idahowitzer]

I have said this in this thread more than once but I will say it again. If you see illegal behavior, report it to fish and game, forest service, and/or the sheriff’s office. Posting a picture and calling the guy a pos with no description as to what he did wrong, how about reporting it. You have a picture that could be used to identify the individual, tell someone who can do something not a bunch of nameless people on the internet.

1. Read the post above. I wrote: “See trailcam photos of these dudes 10+ miles in where you’re not even supposed to ride a mountain bike”
2. It has been reported, followed up on, and nothing. Sometimes casting a wider net helps find a poacher.
3. I have reported dozens upon dozens of wildlife crimes to no avail sans 1 incident when I called after the fact. Never once has my simple tip ever turned into a conviction. Hell, even when they catch the guys I’m repeatedly told “they were good guys, they juat didn’t know” and the dudes get off with a warning. The piss poor hunters grossly outnumber the enforcement officers and both parties know it. I sound like a broken record saying Idaho hasn’t increased the number of CO’s in 30 years. I’ve lived here the whole time and it doesn’t take a census to realize we’ve got more people in the state, but the numbers do show- it’s BLOWN UP. To continue on line nothing is wrong would be foolish.

It might come acroas as harsh, but I mean no disrespect. Frankly, your response, and this entire discussion is indicative of the fact that nobody is getting what is happening in this state, and presumably across the country. Hunter behavior is at all time lows. It is grossly exacerbating the problems with a more and more crowded landscape. Much thanks to R3, the bar being lowered (e.g., online hunters ed), and the hunting industry cramming more people into the woods for a profit.

Calling out a guy on the internet isn’t as fruitless as you indicate. The chances are actually pretty good this guy has put up his own grip n grins on this forum, Chances are good somebody on this forum knows him. To assume this forum is only made up of law abiding hunters who are in it for the right reasons would be beyond foolish. The ONLY time I’ve ever gotten someone truly busted was by doing my own detective work, cold calling every single person I knew.

 

[Spoonbill]

I agree not to limit opportunities, but I know there are ways IDFG can improve hunting quality while maintaining current opportunities. And to be clear, im for raising tag cost in order to do so as long as it requires more from the agency. All in all im happy with how IDFG manages but id like to see incentives(via season dates or greater opportunity) to hunt with a bow or muzzy. The long range rifle game is one that Im done playing and my general rifle season enjoyment and, frankly, safety has been compromised. Ive been shot over twice in two seasons and each time the shooter had no idea. This is not hunting imo or really shouldnt be an option in the most congested hunt of the year. Everybody knows someone or has watched someone shoot at 1000+ yards. Where will the line be drawn? Im playing devils advocate a bit with you Dioni because like it or not what you say carries a bit more weight just like Robby and whoever else has a social media presence. Do you really want to relinquish control by just saying what you don’t want?

I do not know a single person who has shot 1000 yards at an animal. I do know several people who shoot that far regularly.

More archery or muzzleloader opportunities won’t change people taking questionable shots, it will just incentivize to use lesser equipment when taking unethical shots. Look at how little people practice with centerfire rifles, now take a slower loading and harder recoiling muzzleloader, I bet it gets shot even less.

Only solution I have for people shooting over others heads is to require blaze orange. Not a fan but I see the benefits.

 

[littlebigtine]

I do not know a single person who has shot 1000 yards at an animal. I do know several people who shoot that far regularly.

More archery or muzzleloader opportunities won’t change people taking questionable shots, it will just incentivize to use lesser equipment when taking unethical shots. Look at how little people practice with centerfire rifles, now take a slower loading and harder recoiling muzzleloader, I bet it gets shot even less.

Only solution I have for people shooting over others heads is to require blaze orange. Not a fan but I see the benefits.

Im open to the blaze. I am not saying that 1000 yards is a questionable shot. Who am I to determine someone else’s effective range? Just not hunting to me. My point is that long range rifle tactics in a busy deer season is a recipe for disaster and, furthermore, is pushing the harvest success rate up which is pressuring people to play the game. I bet in 10 years a 800 yard shot will be the 600 yard shot equivalent of today. This scaling is not a viable future for rifle hunting but the only option out imo is to incentivize the use of shorter range weapons. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it’s going to happen.

 

[Gobbler36]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law. It’s a good opportunity to inform them what the regs say so they don’t wind up in legal trouble.

According to fish and game after a call they say thermals are legal and do not fall under artficial light as long as it’s not attached to the weapon. no nightvision is allowed.

 

[Spoonbill]

Im open to the blaze. I am not saying that 1000 yards is a questionable shot. Who am I to determine someone else’s effective range? Just not hunting to me. My point is that long range rifle tactics in a busy deer season is a recipe for disaster and, furthermore, is pushing the harvest success rate up which is pressuring people to play the game. I bet in 10 years a 800 yard shot will be the 600 yard shot equivalent of today. This scaling is not a viable future for rifle hunting but the only option out imo is to incentivize the use of shorter range weapons. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it’s going to happen.

I didn’t mean to imply that it was, my fault for not being more clear. I assumed you referring to people who take long shots because they bought a rifle/scope setup that they believe is capable of shooting that far. Sorry if that’s not what you meant.

 

[littlebigtine]

I didn’t mean to imply that it was, my fault for not being more clear. I assumed you referring to people who take long shots because they bought a rifle/scope setup that they believe is capable of shooting that far. Sorry if that’s not what you meant.

Ya people will do what they do cuz they are them and they do that. The heart of my point is that general rifle season is impossible to regulate and at least a long shot with an idaho legal muzzy is back within more normal hunting distances of the past. I think that technology will outgrow or opportunity so we will need to check it systematically going forward.

 

[HuntQuietly]

I would really like to see people stop thinking that more regulations turns into better deer hunting. I'm so tired of hearing that people want to limit our own opportunity.

I don't disagree, but until people come to grips with the fact that the overwhelming majority of people that ARE advocating for it are doing so as a result of poor hunter behavior and complete lack of enforcement so they do simple math. Less Hunters = Less Stupid human tricks.

Blaze Orange? Absolutely not. Funneling people to bows and muzzleloaders doesn’t change the “wound it enough to find it” ethic. As was stated previously, most of the retards out in the field shouldn't be shooting further than 100 yards so any limits just serve to restrict the people DO take their rifleman ethics seriously.


I contend that if Fish and Game would make even the slightest attempt at making a show of enforcement, present even the APPEARANCE of enforcement, a great many of the idiots that are out there today would simply quit hunting and go find something else to do to. Especially so if the cost of infractions increased 10x and they started truly revoking privileges for game-related infractions.

These guys setup a roadblock/check station - in one small and obscure area in the corner of one unit somewhere in the state- and in a night’s time catch something on the order of 5 deer without tags, 1 deer taken without a tag at all, a couple giant bucks shot in an antler restriction area and so on. That's in a couple hours of work -on a WEEKDAY. Great.

Or is it?

In order to setup that check station, because we are so woefully understaffed on Enforcement Agents, they have to pull agents from every other surrounding unit to run the checkpoint. That means every other surrounding area (assuming these even have an agent assigned to it in the first place) goes without ANY enforcement at all (such that it is).

What does that translate into if you extrapolate that level of untagged deer, bucks shot out of season, etc out to the rest of the state and then multiple it by every day? That's just on a weekday, in a VERY small area so we are talking about complete and widespread disregard for the rules. That's just the truly illegal stuff, if you add in the legal but generally dodgy poor hunter behavior it’s untenable. Sorry @WeiserBucks, if you don't see it then I can't help you, but I promise I'm neither a unique instance nor have I brought up a single example that isn't true.

We can go into philosophizing about all the societal issues that contribute to it and the instant gratification culture combined with the dopamine hit from social media BS.......all multiplied by the reality of a complete lack of fear that they might get caught.

@Spoonbill - I agree that if anyone happens to have real data you can share (license plates, tail numbers, videos, etc) then getting that to IDFG is a good thing. And I have personally experienced agents responding to the truly and overly egregious instances like I mention above. But there is definitely a fine line between reporting douchey and illegal behavior and truly doing the job of we are presumably already paying to be done. If we all flooded the zone with every instance of illegal behavior - they simply are too understaffed to even respond to a tiny fraction of the issues, so your 'solution' of just reporting things doesn't work.


Which, btw, is why I believe the frontier justice system is starting to come back in vogue. Drive off trail, shoot a big buck in a point restriction unit, set your blind up 20 yards away, shoot a deer out the window of your truck and claim you had the boating and big game rules mixed up (had to look that one up and OMG how retarded are you?) - expect retribution. I don’t care how it happens, if people start seeing the potential for consequences for their actions, then I’m all for it. Either IDFG does it or the community polices itself. Doesn’t matter to me.


Just to be clear - this is NOT an indictment on the IDFG Enforcement Agents out in the field. My experience with every agent I have had the pleasure of meeting has been positive and I find them to be hard-working professionals. They are simply impossibly understaffed to make a dent or present even the appearance of deterrent.

The issue sits squarely with their management (not the agents) and the commissioners and the importance they put on enforcement - which is so far down the priority list it might as well not exist.


So if we want people to stop advocating for shorter seasons, less tags, fewer opportunities, more orange, less rifles..– then how about we start addressing the root of why those people feel that way and start enforcing off-trail riding, window shooting ANYTHING, “wound it enough to kill it” ethics and I bet the hue and cry for limiting opportunities fades away.

 

[Spoonbill]

According to fish and game after a call they say thermals are legal and do not fall under artficial light as long as it’s not attached to the weapon. no nightvision is allowed.

I stand corrected, thanks for checking with them and letting me know. I do agree they should be illegal and it doesn’t make sense that binos are ok but a thermal optic is illegal.

 

[Gobbler36]

I stand corrected, thanks for checking with them and letting me know. I do agree they should be illegal and it doesn’t make sense that binos are ok but a thermal optic is illegal.

Thermal Binos is what i meant
guy i know spent 10k on thermal imaging binos

they try and say its not a huge advantage lol I’m like then why spend 10k on a pair then.

This is something hunters should sign a petition on for F&G to address. It’s ridiculous it took 15+ years to legalize lighted arrow nocks and yet we haven’t addressed one bit people scoping out deer, elk and antelope at night with thermal imaging. It’s madness

 

[HuntQuietly]

Help me understand how adding more regulations to anything improves our situation in the slightest - if there is no attempt or resources applied to enforcing it?

These people are worse than the BLM (which is a low bar indeed!) and can't police anything. Why add more regulations until we can get a commitment to enforce the meager restrictions that exist already.

You can't achieve the goals we want by simply adding more rules. Period.

Edit: Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing for the usage of thermals for big game - that qualifies as just as retarded and unethical as shooting shit out the window of your truck - just questioning the logic of adding more regulations to those that are already not enforced.

 

[Spoonbill]

1. Read the post above. I wrote: “See trailcam photos of these dudes 10+ miles in where you’re not even supposed to ride a mountain bike”
2. It has been reported, followed up on, and nothing. Sometimes casting a wider net helps find a poacher.
3. I have reported dozens upon dozens of wildlife crimes to no avail sans 1 incident when I called after the fact. Never once has my simple tip ever turned into a conviction. Hell, even when they catch the guys I’m repeatedly told “they were good guys, they juat didn’t know” and the dudes get off with a warning. The piss poor hunters grossly outnumber the enforcement officers and both parties know it. I sound like a broken record saying Idaho hasn’t increased the number of CO’s in 30 years. I’ve lived here the whole time and it doesn’t take a census to realize we’ve got more people in the state, but the numbers do show- it’s BLOWN UP. To continue on line nothing is wrong would be foolish.

It might come acroas as harsh, but I mean no disrespect. Frankly, your response, and this entire discussion is indicative of the fact that nobody is getting what is happening in this state, and presumably across the country. Hunter behavior is at all time lows. It is grossly exacerbating the problems with a more and more crowded landscape. Much thanks to R3, the bar being lowered (e.g., online hunters ed), and the hunting industry cramming more people into the woods for a profit.

Calling out a guy on the internet isn’t as fruitless as you indicate. The chances are actually pretty good this guy has put up his own grip n grins on this forum, Chances are good somebody on this forum knows him. To assume this forum is only made up of law abiding hunters who are in it for the right reasons would be beyond foolish. The ONLY time I’ve ever gotten someone truly busted was by doing my own detective work, cold calling every single person I knew.

No disrespect taken, thanks for adding in the context. I didn’t mean to indicate that calling someone out is fruitless (see the AVB thread) just that adding context to your post may help others on here lend some help.
I’ve seen and heard similar stories to those posted here, so I get it but I chose not to share any of them for various reasons. Sorry to hear your reports to law enforcement didn’t result in more convictions, that is disheartening.

 

[Idahowitzer]

For those of you who believe the @robby denning narrative. This has been the same language in our regs since I was 12.

 

[robby denning]

For those of you who believe the @robby denning narrative. This has been the same language in our regs since I was 12.

Yip it has. and I still had it wrong. That's why I freely told the story for a couple of years on various media. That's how FnG found out and why they didn't ticket me. they believed I thought the law was "off the road, and stopped".

retarded on my part yes, but not intentional.

 

[CorbLand]

I personally would rather us go to what Utah has for deer a general draw at random and a limited draw random if we only got to hunt deer every 3 years I’d be ok with as opposed to dealing with the shit show that general deer has become here too many resident hunters and NR alike. at least you would have a chance at seeing a mature buck once in a while

Yea, its worked so well here that there are mature deer around every tree...listen to the RAC and board meetings. People are bitching about the same thing you guys are. Cutting tags has worked so well we have done it virtually every year for 40 years. Dont worry though, this next time it will work.

Idaho is killing as many if not more mature deer than Utah does.

I hear this a lot, and its idiotic to think that hunting deer every three years will somehow make it better. I repeat DO NOT GIVE UP WHAT YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU HAVE.

This mentality will kill the average hunter, and they are the back bone of hunting.

Northern Utah, most of Idaho, and Western Wyoming are coming off the worst winter we have seen in 20 years. Winter kill was hard, and it will have an effect. Dont let that override and change managements permanently. Even when Utah was growing deer, they didnt issue more tags.