Get some 50/50 Ballistol and water for lube and swabbing. Run along time without swabbing between shots at the range. Hunting, I use mink oil lube or similar, so it doesn’t dry out.
Patched roundball range day
- Thread starter 30338
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 13,517
I tried to do two 10 shot groups with PRB’s and this CVA. @longrangelead stated that this barrel had been left loaded for about 15 years. Due to the barrel issue, I cleaned it well and could feel a “ring” or really rough spot right where the bullet would sit.
First 10 shots would be without swabbing between shots. First couple went ok, the second load was only a bit more difficult to seat. But, at #3 it became very difficult to seat and only got worse. By shot 5 or 6 I had to use the tailgate to seat the ramrod all the way. The shots also got worse. Shots 7 and 8 didn’t hit the IPSC backer.
These were pre-lubed patches .015” thick and .490” balls. 65gr FFG Swiss.
Looking at the target when I went to pull it, the two balls hit the head. This continues the trend of it shooting way high when it gets Fowled.
I stopped at 8 as they were off the paper. Swabbed with spit patches and started the second group of 10 that were going to be swabbed between every shot. These were spit patches with .490” balls- 65gr FFG Swiss. Only made it to shot number 2, as the end of the ram rod came off-
Went home, put a bunch of super glue on the end of the ram rod (glueing myself to everything in the process) and shoved it back down. Got it out and continued today-
What’s interesting is when the swab patch was very tight at the breach, that’s when the shots were off. The times I swabbed and it felt much smoother, that’s when the shots were in the black (the first two shots after the heavy swabbing were both in the black). The nasty spot in the barrel was cutting the swab patches.
Then I tried the same .015” spit patch with a .495” ball, same 65gr FFG. While they were much harder to start, the tighter ball/patch combo did seem to help keep the fowling not so aggressive in the patches.
The group was significantly better, but again when the swabbing was rough and tight- the next shot was generally one of the lower ones.
I’ll keep playing with it until the Flintlock comes in, but the barrel needs some attention.
First 10 shots would be without swabbing between shots. First couple went ok, the second load was only a bit more difficult to seat. But, at #3 it became very difficult to seat and only got worse. By shot 5 or 6 I had to use the tailgate to seat the ramrod all the way. The shots also got worse. Shots 7 and 8 didn’t hit the IPSC backer.
These were pre-lubed patches .015” thick and .490” balls. 65gr FFG Swiss.
Looking at the target when I went to pull it, the two balls hit the head. This continues the trend of it shooting way high when it gets Fowled.
I stopped at 8 as they were off the paper. Swabbed with spit patches and started the second group of 10 that were going to be swabbed between every shot. These were spit patches with .490” balls- 65gr FFG Swiss. Only made it to shot number 2, as the end of the ram rod came off-
Went home, put a bunch of super glue on the end of the ram rod (glueing myself to everything in the process) and shoved it back down. Got it out and continued today-
What’s interesting is when the swab patch was very tight at the breach, that’s when the shots were off. The times I swabbed and it felt much smoother, that’s when the shots were in the black (the first two shots after the heavy swabbing were both in the black). The nasty spot in the barrel was cutting the swab patches.
Then I tried the same .015” spit patch with a .495” ball, same 65gr FFG. While they were much harder to start, the tighter ball/patch combo did seem to help keep the fowling not so aggressive in the patches.
The group was significantly better, but again when the swabbing was rough and tight- the next shot was generally one of the lower ones.
I’ll keep playing with it until the Flintlock comes in, but the barrel needs some attention.
ResearchinStuff
WKR
Have you tried shooting it on a moist day yet? High humidity, foggy, snowing hard, or better yet rainy?
insanelupus
WKR
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2015
- Messages
- 643
Form,
I'm far from an expert, but was trained under the tuteludge of one who was. He built the .54 that I took this buck with several years ago at 75 yards. First time that rifle had been hunted in almost 30 years and my mentor died within a month of this photo being taken. Best present I could have given him. I've learned a little from others mistakes since then.
One word of caution, if you have to hammer that ram rod home with the tailgate, probably best to clean. Little good will come of doing so and often some form of damage can result. Sometimes, we have to accept and conform to the limitations of the tool we are using, or find a tool that better conforms to our standards.
Those pre lubed patches are convenient, true. As you have discovered, the tighter the patch/ball, typically the better the group. But powder fouling is a thing. Good Swiss powder (if it can be found, tough at the moment) is a gift and second to none. Running your patch material (100% cotton) through a hot wash cycle and drying is supposed to be beneficial, which means cutting (pre cut or at the muzzle) and lubing them . And experimenting with lube (hey, don't be weird here) is a good idea. Mink oil is often touted and that's been my go to for the rifle pictured. My mentor used a home brew of sheep tallow and beeswax, perhaps with a little linseed oil (memories fade). I asked once about bear grease and his experience indicated it is too thin. There is a balance in patch lube regarding thickness and viscocity I'm still learning.
I've purchased a .58 I need to repair a little and then get online next year. The rifles my mentor built are relegated to terrain I can navigate without falling these days, but the elk don't usually live there! Thus the purchased .58. I'll be playing with lube, ball size, and powder charges, provided I can find more 2F Swiss.
One thing friends have found helpful and I believe it was mentioned, a fiber wad over your powder charge before the PRB is seated. Research I've done indicates going up a caliber is helpful too (I'll be using .62 wads). Lowers extreme spread and has helped accuracy with several I know using conicals, but does the same for PRB.
My experience has all been with slow twist barrels for PRB and the .58 I have is basically a sporterized Remington 1863 Contract rifle that was never actually produced. An Antolio Zoli creation of the 70s. Complete with shallow rifling, 3 groove short barrel, and I've found multiple twists listed from moderate that should be PRB fine to slow and no good for conicals, which I doubt.
Rarely with a muzzlleloader will there be a generic secret sauce. More than modern rifles, each is a rule into its own and requires experimentation.
My mentor told me there have been and are many muzzleloaders capable of very good accuracy. He built many of them over his lifetime. But not every shooter is or has the patience to find it he told me. But the myth that PRB is not capable of small groups at 100 yards is just that, a myth. Not all muzzleloaders are capable of it, but he always reckoned there were fewer shooters capable of finding the necessary combo than there were muzzleloaders.
I'm far from an expert, but was trained under the tuteludge of one who was. He built the .54 that I took this buck with several years ago at 75 yards. First time that rifle had been hunted in almost 30 years and my mentor died within a month of this photo being taken. Best present I could have given him. I've learned a little from others mistakes since then.
One word of caution, if you have to hammer that ram rod home with the tailgate, probably best to clean. Little good will come of doing so and often some form of damage can result. Sometimes, we have to accept and conform to the limitations of the tool we are using, or find a tool that better conforms to our standards.
Those pre lubed patches are convenient, true. As you have discovered, the tighter the patch/ball, typically the better the group. But powder fouling is a thing. Good Swiss powder (if it can be found, tough at the moment) is a gift and second to none. Running your patch material (100% cotton) through a hot wash cycle and drying is supposed to be beneficial, which means cutting (pre cut or at the muzzle) and lubing them . And experimenting with lube (hey, don't be weird here) is a good idea. Mink oil is often touted and that's been my go to for the rifle pictured. My mentor used a home brew of sheep tallow and beeswax, perhaps with a little linseed oil (memories fade). I asked once about bear grease and his experience indicated it is too thin. There is a balance in patch lube regarding thickness and viscocity I'm still learning.
I've purchased a .58 I need to repair a little and then get online next year. The rifles my mentor built are relegated to terrain I can navigate without falling these days, but the elk don't usually live there! Thus the purchased .58. I'll be playing with lube, ball size, and powder charges, provided I can find more 2F Swiss.
One thing friends have found helpful and I believe it was mentioned, a fiber wad over your powder charge before the PRB is seated. Research I've done indicates going up a caliber is helpful too (I'll be using .62 wads). Lowers extreme spread and has helped accuracy with several I know using conicals, but does the same for PRB.
My experience has all been with slow twist barrels for PRB and the .58 I have is basically a sporterized Remington 1863 Contract rifle that was never actually produced. An Antolio Zoli creation of the 70s. Complete with shallow rifling, 3 groove short barrel, and I've found multiple twists listed from moderate that should be PRB fine to slow and no good for conicals, which I doubt.
Rarely with a muzzlleloader will there be a generic secret sauce. More than modern rifles, each is a rule into its own and requires experimentation.
My mentor told me there have been and are many muzzleloaders capable of very good accuracy. He built many of them over his lifetime. But not every shooter is or has the patience to find it he told me. But the myth that PRB is not capable of small groups at 100 yards is just that, a myth. Not all muzzleloaders are capable of it, but he always reckoned there were fewer shooters capable of finding the necessary combo than there were muzzleloaders.
Attachments
You need to get a new ram rod. At least the wood and pin the end on. I wouldn't trust any kind of glue. You can buy wood blanks from muzzleloader supply dealers. I make up a spare or two. A real range rod is a real plus.
Search - Track of the Wolf
Muzzle Loading & Black Powder Guns Kits, Parts, Accoutrements, Rendezvous Gear & Primitive Americana.
www.trackofthewolf.com
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 13,517
Haha. They were ordered within 5min of it happening.
BBob
WKR
5lb of Swiss inbound. Guess I’m committed 
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 13,517
5lb of Swiss inbound. Guess I’m committed
Man that’s a pretty good day of shooting…
Grin.
FrontierGander
WKR
With Swiss costing $60 a lb now, Im sure glad i make my own stuff lol.
Similar threads
Featured Video
Latest Articles
- TT#64 Josh Boyd Elk Hunting Strategies for Every Season
- Aaron Davidson of Gunwerks
- TT#63 Dirk Durham’s Art of Elk Calling
- BIG Buck Stories with the Dirty Giants Podcast
- TT#62 Brian Barney Hunting Bulls without Calling
- Hoyt Alpha AX-2 SD Review
- Kuiu Kenai vs Outdoor Vitals Vario Hooded Jacket Review
- Hoyt RX-9 Ultra Review
- Hunting Vampire Bucks & Building an Optics Kit
- Darton Sequel ST2 35 Review