Patched roundball range day

[Formidilosus]

I’m down to see what I can do at 100yds. I have a TVM Poor Boy that I want to put through the paces. Was able to kill a blacktail doe with a decent load but I think I could dev out a better one. Will post feedback after range days!

That will be great.

I have an older TC Hawken that has an appropriate twist dedicated round ball barrel on it. I haven’t shot it much lately but mby I need to drag it out and shoot it this spring when other things have slowed.

Do it!

 

[Formidilosus]

PA has a strong traditional muzzleloading culture. I selfishly wish more states would have flint/trad seasons. Traditional muzzleloading is a dying sport and I think these seasons do more to spark interest and introduce new people to these rifles than just about anything.

It’s not selfish at all. It goes right back to when these “muzzleloader” or “primitive” season were adopted in most states (and this includes archery). The reason they got a special season set aside is because due to the equipment limitations they wouldn’t have any material effect on game numbers. Instead, now muzzleloader season is just another modern “rifle that sucks” season. They are not a handicap in anyway, and the successful rate is hand in hand with centerfires.

 

[2Stamp]

I’ve got a package and half on the way. When I ordered the stuff, the sales person was like “wtf, what are you doing with this”. Haha.




I was given a place and asked not to repeat. I’m not even sure they are online, I will ask if it is ok to state.

No worries. Black powder is a touchy subject.

 

[Steve300xcw]

. In regards to cleaning, ask 10 different shooters how they clean and you will get 10 different answers. In reality, most all of them work. The ones that will argue with you about it would almost always be better served learning how to shoot rather the formulating their cleaning concoctions.

We always pulled the barrels and stuck em in a bucket of hot water and murphys oil soap. Though I donot know why Wet patch and pretty soon you are pulling/pushing that stuff through it all.

Worked good enough. An at the time we were going through a lot of powder.

 

[Formidilosus]

These are from the other day. For the PRB guys, what do they look like?

 

[Natty]

These are from the other day. For the PRB guys, what do they look like?

View attachment 986691

Look fine to me. Conventional wisdom among the match shooting crowd will tell you pre-cut patches won't shoot well. (I don't buy into this as long as care is taken while loading and the pre-cut patch is big enough/centered enough to go around the circumference of the ball at its widest point.)

What material/thickness/lube?

Is the kibler you have coming a woodsrunner or colonial? What sights are you planning on trying?

 

[Formidilosus]

Look fine to me. Conventional wisdom among the match shooting crowd will tell you pre-cut patches won't shoot well. (I don't buy into this as long as care is taken while loading and the pre-cut patch is big enough/centered enough to go around the circumference of the ball at its widest point.)

Appreciate it.

What material/thickness/lube?

I believe these are Traditions pre lubed cotton patches. .015” thick.

Is the kibler you have coming a woodsrunner or colonial?

Woodrunner.

What sights are you planning on trying?

Flip up Jeager style. Something like fig7 here-





Or a Ferguson-

 

[Natty]

Woodrunner.

Excellent handling rifle. Hadn't seen one in person until about a month ago. Seriously considering picking one up for a hunting gun. I believe he sources barrels from rice and green mountain, so they will be shooters.

Flip up Jeager style. Something like fig7 here.

I like that. Looking forward to seeing what you can do at distance.

Dug this up today. Fifty yd but it was the only thing I had with 10+ shots lying around. Open sights. Match is 13 shots score the best 10. Offhand so I'm positive the rifle can do better. Group is 1.95" center to center. Widest shot is 1.25" from center of target.

 

[Formidilosus]

Excellent handling rifle. Hadn't seen one in person until about a month ago. Seriously considering picking one up for a hunting gun. I believe he sources barrels from rice and green mountain, so they will be shooters.

I like that. Looking forward to seeing what you can do at distance.

Me too sir.

Dug this up today. Fifty yd but it was the only thing I had with 10+ shots lying around. Open sights. Match is 13 shots score the best 10. Offhand so I'm positive the rifle can do better. Group is 1.95" center to center. Widest shot is 1.25" from center of target.

Oh that’s nice.

 

[Natty]

Oh that’s nice.

Good day with a rifle I bummed off a friend. Wish I owned it. Oh yeah, and no cleaning that rifle at any point during that match or the shots prior used to zero.

 

[Formidilosus]

(I don't buy into this as long as care is taken while loading and the pre-cut patch is big enough/centered enough to go around the circumference of the ball at its widest point.)

I was thinking about this. Does the latch need to be perfectly centered? Or does it just need to cover the ball so that it is contained?

 

[Natty]

I was thinking about this. Does the latch need to be perfectly centered? Or does it just need to cover the ball so that it is contained?

This is something that would be worth testing once people start shooting 10+ shot groups to see the effect of centered vs. intentionally not centered.

I haven't tested it but here are my anecdotal thoughts/experience. I started shooting prb with pre-cut patches. I logged 2,000+ shots a year for a series of years. The first several were with pre-cut patches. At some point I switched to cutting them at the muzzle. I never saw any significant change in the scores I was shooting that could be attributed to the change.

For me this switch was out of convenience. I could keep a bolt of material on hand and when it was time to go to a shoot all I had to do was cut off how much I needed and put it in my shooting box or bag. No time spent pre punching patches and no need to inventory different sizes for different calibers.

Another nice biproduct of switching is I no longer had strangers coming up to me while I was in the middle of shooting a match to tell me I would never be able to shoot competitively with pre-cut patches. Every time these conversations happened, I would ask the person if they had ever tested this or had anything quantifiable to prove this, such as a difference in scores. I would always try to figure out their grounds for this belief. The response was always to repeat their opinion or make an appeal to authority.

The theory of the anti pre-cut camp is that you are not getting the ball perfectly centered in the patch like you are when you cut them at the muzzle. They think the lack of concentricity of the ball in the patch effects accuracy. I have never gotten an explanation of what they think is physically causing said effect.

My theory is that as long as the patch has full contact around the circumference of the ball, it will do its job. When I was shooting pre-cut I would try to keep the ball reasonably centered in the patch but not to the point of getting OCD about it. With the right sized patches, you have some wiggle room.

I think if a nonconcentric patch is effecting the balls flight as it exits the barrel, it would only be in extreme cases. Basically unless you are to the point where you feel like the ball is going to slip off one side of the patch when you start it or you have a super long tail sticking up on one side when you are starting it I would say it is fine. If lack of concentricity had an effect, I also suspect it would be magnified with a higher pressure load or loose loading ball/patch combinations.

 

[Formidilosus]

This is something that would be worth testing once people start shooting 10+ shot groups to see the effect of centered vs. intentionally not centered.

I haven't tested it but here are my anecdotal thoughts/experience. I started shooting prb with pre-cut patches. I logged 2,000+ shots a year for a series of years. The first several were with pre-cut patches. At some point I switched to cutting them at the muzzle. I never saw any significant change in the scores I was shooting that could be attributed to the change.

For me this switch was out of convenience. I could keep a bolt of material on hand and when it was time to go to a shoot all I had to do was cut off how much I needed and put it in my shooting box or bag. No time spent pre punching patches and no need to inventory different sizes for different calibers.

Another nice biproduct of switching is I no longer had strangers coming up to me while I was in the middle of shooting a match to tell me I would never be able to shoot competitively with pre-cut patches. Every time these conversations happened, I would ask the person if they had ever tested this or had anything quantifiable to prove this, such as a difference in scores. I would always try to figure out their grounds for this belief. The response was always to repeat their opinion or make an appeal to authority.

The theory of the anti pre-cut camp is that you are not getting the ball perfectly centered in the patch like you are when you cut them at the muzzle. They think the lack of concentricity of the ball in the patch effects accuracy. I have never gotten an explanation of what they think is physically causing said effect.

My theory is that as long as the patch has full contact around the circumference of the ball, it will do its job. When I was shooting pre-cut I would try to keep the ball reasonably centered in the patch but not to the point of getting OCD about it. With the right sized patches, you have some wiggle room.

I think if a nonconcentric patch is effecting the balls flight as it exits the barrel, it would only be in extreme cases. Basically unless you are to the point where you feel like the ball is going to slip off one side of the patch when you start it or you have a super long tail sticking up on one side when you are starting it I would say it is fine. If lack of concentricity had an effect, I also suspect it would be magnified with a higher pressure load or loose loading ball/patch combinations.

That all makes sense, thank you.

 

[43.6N]

This has been a masterclass to sit on the sidelines and listen too!

Thanks you guys for this.

 

[mtnbound]

This is something that would be worth testing once people start shooting 10+ shot groups to see the effect of centered vs. intentionally not centered.

I haven't tested it but here are my anecdotal thoughts/experience. I started shooting prb with pre-cut patches. I logged 2,000+ shots a year for a series of years. The first several were with pre-cut patches. At some point I switched to cutting them at the muzzle. I never saw any significant change in the scores I was shooting that could be attributed to the change.

For me this switch was out of convenience. I could keep a bolt of material on hand and when it was time to go to a shoot all I had to do was cut off how much I needed and put it in my shooting box or bag. No time spent pre punching patches and no need to inventory different sizes for different calibers.

Another nice biproduct of switching is I no longer had strangers coming up to me while I was in the middle of shooting a match to tell me I would never be able to shoot competitively with pre-cut patches. Every time these conversations happened, I would ask the person if they had ever tested this or had anything quantifiable to prove this, such as a difference in scores. I would always try to figure out their grounds for this belief. The response was always to repeat their opinion or make an appeal to authority.

The theory of the anti pre-cut camp is that you are not getting the ball perfectly centered in the patch like you are when you cut them at the muzzle. They think the lack of concentricity of the ball in the patch effects accuracy. I have never gotten an explanation of what they think is physically causing said effect.

My theory is that as long as the patch has full contact around the circumference of the ball, it will do its job. When I was shooting pre-cut I would try to keep the ball reasonably centered in the patch but not to the point of getting OCD about it. With the right sized patches, you have some wiggle room.

I think if a nonconcentric patch is effecting the balls flight as it exits the barrel, it would only be in extreme cases. Basically unless you are to the point where you feel like the ball is going to slip off one side of the patch when you start it or you have a super long tail sticking up on one side when you are starting it I would say it is fine. If lack of concentricity had an effect, I also suspect it would be magnified with a higher pressure load or loose loading ball/patch combinations.

I remember my dad going through the same process of cutting patches at the muzzle, which was supposedly more accurate, but he tried pre-cuts for convenience. After lots of shots, he didn't notice any repeatable loss of accuracy. He became convinced it was more of a mental belief of improved accuracy from the cut ones.