Official Montana 2023 Draw Thread!

[bmart2622]

Its my understanding that when it comes to released tags that parties are dissolved and its a complete random draw at that point

 

[fatlander]

Its my understanding that when it comes to released tags that parties are dissolved and its a complete random draw at that point

Where is it in code? Where is it in the regs? Where is it in the approved draw plan?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bmart2622]

I cant recall where I read or saw it

 

[fatlander]

I cant recall where I read or saw it

Well I know there’s a lot of folks that would love to see it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bmart2622]

Does it say how the draw will go specifically in regards to released tags ans party applications?

 

[fatlander]

Does it say how the draw will go specifically in regards to released tags ans party applications?

2023 Montana Elk draw unexpected outcomes

2023 Montana Elk draw unexpected outcomes

I thought I would post this for those who had a draw outcome that maybe had you scratching your head as did the outcome of my party. This is not a complaint its more of a observation and a question. I entered the draw with two other hunters to our party. Myself and one friend entered with 2 PP...

r.tapatalk.com

It talks about party apps to a degree, nothing pertaining to split party apps for released tags. It says nothing about released tags in general. At least nothing I could find and nothing anyone else has brought up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bmart2622]

Well I guess then there isnt much to hold them to. If it doesn't say how they have to do it then its hard to say they violated anything

 

[fatlander]

Well I guess then there isnt much to hold them to. If it doesn't say how they have to do it then its hard to say they violated anything

That’s not necessarily true at all. Most of the laws in this country aren’t written for the government to tell the people what they can and can’t do. They’re written to tell the government what the people say the government can and can’t do.

The wildlife is held in trust by the state government for residents of the state. Depending on state law, they (FWP) may have violated state law by doing something that FWP doesn’t have specific approved statutory authority to do.

FWP sold preference points as giving the highest order of preference to those with the highest number of points.

FWP sold party application as an average of the party’s collective points. No one in the party has their own points once the draw begins, they all have the whatever the collective average is.

FWP kept 20% of the proceeds from released tags.

Finally, FWP awarded released tags to individuals who collectively had less preference points than others before they gave anyone the chance to agree to the new terms. I think there’s a judge in Montana that would at least hear this argument.


Edit: FWIW, I drew a tag with 2 points in the first go before the released tags and my friends drew with an average of 2.5. I’m not harping on this because I didn’t draw and I think I’m entitled to a tag. I’m upset that one of the greatest public resources in the world is this mismanaged. I’m frustrated that American tax payers, specifically sportsmen, foot the bill for this mismanagement. And I’m extremely disheartened that American citizens are ok with saying “well the government does what it does” and “just be happy with what you’ve got.” That’s not how we got to the point of abundant wildlife and hunting opportunity in this country and it’s damn sure not how we’re going to ensure it’s here for our children and children’s children to enjoy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dos Perros]

@fatlander is right. Montana sold a product and delivered something else. I'm not saying it was malicious, but that's called fraud.

 

[bmart2622]

Again, where is the process in writing that they violated?? Tags went to those with higher preference points as outlined. You could return your tag for an 80% refund as outlined. It seems until someone can show that they violated a law or broke a contract its going to be real hard to claim foul play.

 

[fatlander]

Again, where is the process in writing that they violated?? Tags went to those with higher preference points as outlined. You could return your tag for an 80% refund as outlined. It seems until someone can show that they violated a law or broke a contract its going to be real hard to claim foul play.

Go read the regs and documents and tell us. That’s what we all want to know. The government can’t do what it wants because there’s nothing that says it can’t. The government can only do what the law has dictated it can.

They didn’t award all the tags to those with highest points.

They did a secondary draw that split parties up without anyone’s consent.

There’s a box that is checked at application when applying for a permit that consents to turning a tag in and eating 20%.

Where’s the box to check that says “I’m good with you splitting my party and some of us getting tags while others don’t.”?

Where’s that in the regs, approved draw plans, or state code?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bmart2622]

How do you break a law or rule that isnt written?

 

[fatlander]

How do you break a law or rule that isnt written?

Citizens can’t, the government can.

Citizens can’t break laws that aren’t written. The government can’t do anything besides what it’s been given specific authority.

That’s the beauty of our country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bmart2622]

Good luck

 

[RidgeRunna]

I scored a general elk with 2 points as non resident thankfully. Must of gained some good luck from the 12 hour ordeal I spent on Dec 1 trying to get a non res Idaho tag.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

I scored a general elk with 2 points as non resident thankfully. Must of gained some good luck from the 12 hour ordeal I spent on Dec 1 trying to get a non res Idaho tag.

Piggy backing off what @fatlander said, this is actually a good thing to bring up, Idaho’s situation was a shit show (i participated and got a tag that I’m returning since I’m now a resident so one of you folks can have it) but it still followed their law and process.

It was a damn train wreck but it still worked, you got a place in line and if you were low enough or if you held strong you got to buy your tag.

This is less of a mess that might violate their laws. I’m all for just sending the releases tags back into the initial draw rather than waiting for the alternate list. I think that’s a great idea, but they can’t just do it according to terms that were never set and agreed to.

As I’ve said i didn’t draw, and I’m a little tired of the whining from people who did draw individually in their party, like go hunt an elk you probably won’t get one anyway and you might as well bring your hunting buddy and learn something….but FWP really should have either kept parties together for the whole thing OR at least made it clear beforehand that released tags could go to highest point holders regardless of party status.

I’ve seen some comments that somehow 1 point holders might have gotten a tag, i won’t buy that without hard evidence as i think there’s been some confusing comments from people who bought DEER combo licenses, not elk or big game.

 

[PaBone]

General elk with zero points, I feel like I won the Powerball lottery.

 

[BigBull777]

They just released the detailed draw results for 2023 deer/elk permits in Montana. They are showing people drew tags with 21 bonus points. Please tell me how that is possible when the maximum possible in 2022 was only 19?

 

[FlareBlitz91]

They just released the detailed draw results for 2023 deer/elk permits in Montana. They are showing people drew tags with 21 bonus points. Please tell me how that is possible when the maximum possible in 2022 was only 19?

The new outfitter welfare bonus bonus point.

 

[Spiro]

Got a Montana big game combo tag (non resident from Cali)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk