Non residents getting jammed?

[HuntHarder]

So, a couple years ago Azf&g made a choice to change the way non-resident tags were allocated, not reduce the amount of tags that are given. It used to be that non-residents stood 0.0 chance of getting a premium tag unless that were in the bonus point pass for that particular unit. 10% of the tags where set aside for non-res and they were gone in the bonus point pass on every high demand hunt. The new change is 5% of the tags for non-res go in bonus point phase while the other 5% is drawn in the 1-2 pass. This does not guarantee that 10% of the tags for each hunt will go to non-res, just the maximum amount that will. It hurt the guys with max or close to max bonus points, but vastly helped those with little to no points. I mean, 80% of the tags on every hunt go to lucky guys who draw with less than max bonus points or close to. It is pretty fair I think. I would whine about NM, UT before Az...

 

[sneaky]

Nonresidents in general know what the draw odds are and they chose to pay; Arizona didn't force them to apply. Seems pretty fair to me. Apply somewhere else if you want better odds.

While we're on the topic of Arizona elk, I feel like a lot of people are unaware of just how many elk there are in AZ compared to other states. Here’s a rough list of elk populations by state (in thousands) that I threw together from a few sources a year or two ago. I'm no biologist so excuse me if any of the numbers are far off:

Arizona- 37
Colorado- 270
Idaho- 120
Montana- 150
New Mexico- 85
Oregon- 125
Utah- 68
Washington- 60
Wyoming- 120

Nevada is like 16k I think

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[sneaky]

Maybe we should get AOC involved in F&G affairs...make it fair for everyone! (EDIT: Sarcasm...not directed at OP)

What I can't seem to understand is why people complain left and right about these kinds of things and then turn around and complain that their home state "is overran by nonresidents' and that the non residents 'have destroyed all of the good hunts'. If you don't like the odds or drawing systems of other states, don't apply. Enough people stop applying, F&G of that specific state will change the system to attract more applicants. It's pretty simple.

It writes itself lol

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[bluetick78]

I have to laugh. We all know that forums bring light and publicity to our hunting spots. If you look, there are 3 threads that popped up after this one about "how can I hunt Arizona?"

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Arizona could also make the choice to tell NR to go pound sand and keep all their wildlife resources for Residents....nothing to stop them from doing it.

As a NR we hunt at the complete pleasure of the States that are generous enough to allow us to.

For the record, I find Arizona to be quite generous to NR hunters...I've had 4 late deer tags, 4 rifle bull elk tags, multiple Javelina, and desert sheep tags there.

Arizona treats NR's very well with all kinds of great opportunity.

Umm, yes there is plenty of reason they won’t do that. All of them equal the $14 million+ quoted above.


As also stated above, most every state does it out west. The question is should they tonthe degree they are? Probably not. But, it pays to do so as long as NR’s keep doing it.


What I find truly funny is the ironic side of this. Residents all complain. In every state about the NR’s. Yet, if a state forgives the NR opportunity, the Residents are going to be footing the bill. It’s as if they forgot that government doesn’t posses a belt to tighten up and live on less.

 

[MuleyFever]

If I understand it correctly with the ability to use one license for 2 draws the dollar amount may be much less.

 

[dirtytough]

If I understand it correctly with the ability to use one license for 2 draws the dollar amount may be much less.

You can only do that if you aren't applying for everything in AZ every year. With their staggered app dates it kind of screws that up.

I think eventually the states that have more of a preference point system than bonus point system are going to start losing new applicants. AZ, CO, WY, are all almost impossible to draw a top tier tag in. Even mid tier tags are getting out of reach for new applicants. A quick look at AZ shows it takes at least 7 points to guarantee a tag in the bonus pass for early archery. In 5 years it will probably take 10 years to guarantee a tag in the bonus pass. By the time a new applicant has 10 points it will take 15.

Hunters will eventually realize they have zero chance at what they started out chasing and start burning points. New applicants will look over the odds and decide its not worth it. What future day that is idk but I think it is closer then states realize.

I will keep playing the game for myself. My wife hunts a little and I only apply her for states/species that make sense. Same with my son who is almost old enough to start hunting in most states. I would rather spend a few $1000 more per year and guarantee he can hunt with a voucher, or good otc hunt on private, etc than start him in the points game for hunts that he realistically will never draw until he is 70 years old.

 

[jm1607]

Az isn't too bad.. Every state has it's pro's and con's and Az definitely has more pro's than con's. I feel like the one big positive change they could make is making the 10% tags guaranteed. Everything else about them (hybrid system, price, trophy management, etc.) is all good to me.

It could be worse.. They could use Wyoming's system

 

[Beendare]

So, a couple years ago Azf&g made a choice to change the way non-resident tags were allocated, not reduce the amount of tags that are given. ...

No sir,^ they did cut the tags available to non res.

 

[dirtytough]

No sir,^ they did cut the tags available to non res.

Could you expand on that? As far as I know it was always "up to 10%". I don't remember them ever allocating a higher % of tags to non res.

I know they changed the draw slightly to allow non res without max points a chance to draw.

 

[Steve O]

They did NOT cut the number of tags available to NR. They DID cut the number of tags available to NR in the Bonus round. Only UP TO 5% of the available tags can go to NR in the bonus round...so half. Now that gives the rest of the NR access to up to 5% left in the random segment of the draw.

All the NR allotment was getting filled in the bonus round before effectively turning bonus points into preference points.

 

[HuntHarder]

No sir,^ they did cut the tags available to non res.

FAKE NEWS!

 

[NDGuy]

Hey my odds of drawing there are better than my own state probably!

 

[FLAK]

I quit applying in AZ way back and NM when they went to 6% for NR.

Lowest number of tags for NR's and 10-20x higher licenses and tag prices. Doesnt take a genius to figure that one out. Y'all go ahead.

 

[DWBMontana]

You can always move to a great hunting state, become a working, tax paying, contributing member of the local community....that is why I moved to Montana. I have a hard time having any pity of NR hunters.

 

[sneaky]

You can always move to a great hunting state, become a working, tax paying, contributing member of the local community....that is why I moved to Montana. I have a hard time having any pity of NR hunters.

In many parts of Montana good paying jobs are hard to come by. I've worked in Montana for years, the markets with jobs are usually the liberal hotbeds these days.

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[LandYacht]

In many parts of Montana good paying jobs are hard to come by. I've worked in Montana for years, the markets with jobs are usually the liberal hotbeds these days.

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Welcome to Colorado


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[NDGuy]

I hate when I get...jammed

 

[larsonbarkurn]

Well, we all have to make choices. I think AZ is more “fair” to the NR hunter than NM so I continue to put in for AZ and don’t even look at NM. I’d rather hunt AZ elk once every decade than Colorado elk every year. We are all non residents in 49 other states so we all get screwed one way or another. I’m looking forward to someday retiring in AZ and will gladly have the rest of you poor bastards pay my way

I agree we are all get screwed in one state or another... I can make myself pay for the AZ hunts every year as I come from MS and hunt Colorado every year. I like the diversity of the western states opportunity vs. trophy states. Maybe one day I will start putting in for AZ.

 

[larsonbarkurn]

Life isnt fair. Fact is just about every state out west does it.

Heck, even yearly bird licenses are getting up there

They know that hunting is a passion for most people especially big game hunting and costs will continue to rise until people refuse to pay it, especially non-residents...