NM now requires license purchase for draw - impact?

[3darcher2]

So thanks to all who replied. I have been surfing the web tha past couple days and have found similar responses elsewhere. Several folks stated matter of factly they would not be applying in NM. Some also said that it was just the cost of playing.

I don’t do CO but apparently they added a similar plan requiring license purchase, and WY has added some fees up front too. Several people posted they were hoping to cash out in WY and were not planning on starting over. It does seem like we may be nearing the beginning of a period of decline in applicant numbers and that those still playing may be more focused. Time will tell.

 

[sneaky]

So, thunder head, you have no issues in coming out west to hunt animals, but you don't agree with contributing money towards states managing these animals you hunt? Just wanna make sure I understand that reasoning from you. If $65 that goes directly into the F&G coffers bothers you I would suggest a couple rounds of golf at your closest community golf course instead.

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[davsco]

the prob, so to speak, is non-residents are already paying some serious coin to hunt out west, multiples of what residents are paying, so then having to pay 2/3 of $100 just to apply for very meager odds adds to the pain. personally i'm completely fine with paying for my hopeful license up front, shows i'm serious, but having to pay a lot of $$ despite not getting a license seems a little unfair.

 

[Scott/IL]

I generally apply for Arizona, Idaho, Nevada, and New Mexico.

In Arizona and Idaho, I have used the upfront license on a few different occasions for OTC opportunities. My end game in Nevada are archery deer tags, but I also lump in sheep and elk while I’m at it. I’m pretty confident I’ll be able to draw a muley tag here every few years when I have the opening in my schedule to do so.

None of these situations apply for me in New Mexico. I’ll likely be out of the game this year. Maybe in the future, when I have no commitments elsewhere and an open schedule in September I’ll rethink it.


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[jspradley]

the prob, so to speak, is non-residents are already paying some serious coin to hunt out west, multiples of what residents are paying, so then having to pay 2/3 of $100 just to apply for very meager odds adds to the pain. personally i'm completely fine with paying for my hopeful license up front, shows i'm serious, but having to pay a lot of $$ despite not getting a license seems a little unfair.

I think instead of looking at it like NR have to pay way too much for hunting we need to realize that residents don't pay nearly enough. $15.00 to kill an animal that can give you 300lb of meat is, quite honestly, an unreasonably low number for the value of that resource.

I think it was an episode of Meateater that really hit home with me, people will drop hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a pass to go skiing or play golf with no second thoughts but will cry a river if their hunting license goes up a few dollars. That's simply unreasonable.

 

[Felix40]

NM residents are paying almost $100 to hunt elk. I dont know about other states but its more even here than it is in CO.

 

[BluetickID]

I think instead of looking at it like NR have to pay way too much for hunting we need to realize that residents don't pay nearly enough. $15.00 to kill an animal that can give you 300lb of meat is, quite honestly, an unreasonably low number for the value of that resource.

I think it was an episode of Meateater that really hit home with me, people will drop hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a pass to go skiing or play golf with no second thoughts but will cry a river if their hunting license goes up a few dollars. That's simply unreasonable.

As long as NR hunters buy up nearly every tag available to them in most Western states, game departments will not raise resident fees significantly.

 

[Rthur]

An extra 65 bucks that goes to "conservation". Lol
If the above were true social security wouldn't be "broke".
Add in high demand and you have shot 1k mostly in the ass.
NM has seen the light from other states and played catch up.
Have done a fair bit of draw attempts in the last 15 years in NM.
I see this continuing till hunting costs prices out many hunters.

R

 

[sneaky]

^^^ makes no sense whatsoever. Social security is broke because they rob from it to fund other BS programs. Lots of states get all, or most, of their funding from license sales. Not even remotely close to social security. $65 is cheap compared to applying in NV, or Idaho, and now Colorado. You don't want to pay it? Don't.

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[sneaky]

Most of their game management funding from license sales, freaking Tapatalk won't let you edit anything.

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[Rthur]

^^^ makes no sense whatsoever. Social security is broke because they rob from it to fund other BS programs. Lots of states get all, or most, of their funding from license sales. Not even remotely close to social security. $65 is cheap compared to applying in NV, or Idaho, and now Colorado. You don't want to pay it? Don't.

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The reasoning is monies are regularly removed from "programs" and used to finance "pet" projects that likely buy votes. By your logic why wouldn't they raise the license fee to 650? If you don't like it don't pay it. The Pittman Robertson act collects mountains of monies to be used for things just like this. Another "tax" willing paid by the obtuse.
BTW- because you have to pay it doesn't mean it's right there or elsewhere.

R

 

[sneaky]

Why should they raise the license fee to $650? So you can make another ridiculous analogy? $65 is not that bad in all reality, less than 2 dinners for guys who eat out. I'm sure they had multiple price options on the table and they settled on $65 to meet the budget needs they had identified. It's getting more expensive to do anything now. The fact that people don't realize this is mind boggling. It's just the cost of doing business. It's a privilege for NR hunters to hunt any state, it's not a right. If we have to pay more for that, then that's how it is.

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[3darcher2]

As long as NR hunters buy up nearly every tag available to them in most Western states, game departments will not raise resident fees significantly.

I don’t think the issue is selling licenses. That apparently still isn’t enough. So states look to supplement that by adding additional fees. The licenses will always sell.

I think the thing with NM in particular is you get nothing but a $78 lottery ticket. I’m not a huge fan of preference points, but a bonus point seems to be a good compromise. Otherwise it’s a $78 sheet of toilet paper for most people, especially when draw odds are in the single digits in a lot of hunts.

Whatever happens, some statistics guys decided this is the way to maximize revenue of the ways that were available for now. We’ve become an in the moment society. Used to be businesses had 5 year and 10 year plans. Now focus is totally on the next month/ quarter, and no one cares about 5 years from now. Whether this is a long term good move will take years to go play out.

 

[Rthur]

Why should they raise the license fee to $650? So you can make another ridiculous analogy? $65 is not that bad in all reality, less than 2 dinners for guys who eat out. I'm sure they had multiple price options on the table and they settled on $65 to meet the budget needs they had identified. It's getting more expensive to do anything now. The fact that people don't realize this is mind boggling. It's just the cost of doing business. It's a privilege for NR hunters to hunt any state, it's not a right. If we have to pay more for that, then that's how it is.

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You obviously trust state/fed governments with money much more than I do. Someday you'll realize that no matter how much is given/taken they always need a bit more. Requiring them to be fiscally reponsible with what they have been given. You know the main reason "things" cost more? Devaluation of our currency by the same government you've placed your trust in. It is in the principle not the cost.

R

 

[BeaverHunter]

^^^ makes no sense whatsoever. Social security is broke because they rob from it to fund other BS programs. Lots of states get all, or most, of their funding from license sales. Not even remotely close to social security. $65 is cheap compared to applying in NV, or Idaho, and now Colorado. You don't want to pay it? Don't.

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I get what you're are saying here and agree with some of it but at least with some states, like Idaho, once you've paid for that license, there is a ton of over the counter opportunities so the non-refundable license wasn't a complete waste. I think what some of the other people are saying in this post is that New Mexico is like a lottery in that it has terrible odds so essentially if you don't win with your lottery tickets you're out an additional $65 now.
Bottom line- until the number of applications goes down, or at least levels off, all of these state agencies are going to continue to raise prices on all tags and application fees. Simple supply and demand. Not saying I agree/like it, just the way it is.

 

[bluetick78]

I get what you're are saying here and agree with some of it but at least with some states, like Idaho, once you've paid for that license, there is a ton of over the counter opportunities so the non-refundable license wasn't a complete waste. I think what some of the other people are saying in this post is that New Mexico is like a lottery in that it has terrible odds so essentially if you don't win with your lottery tickets you're out an additional $65 now.
Bottom line- until the number of applications goes down, or at least levels off, all of these state agencies are going to continue to raise prices on all tags and application fees. Simple supply and demand. Not saying I agree/like it, just the way it is.

Exactly. Like a quadratic function, find the absolute maximum for sustainability, and leave it there. As the demand increases anually, so will prices.

 

[DWBMontana]

It is a good idea, wish my state of Montana would also do something similar. Instead of the small pittance they charge for an app now, $5. While they are at it , they should go to cow elk only and doe deer for a NR to. This would help with the so called "Over objective" numbers they keep stating. Do not worry, it will not happen, to much money involved, outfitters, trophy ranches, it is all about the money, so might as well profit as much as we can.

 

[Felix40]

I get what you're are saying here and agree with some of it but at least with some states, like Idaho, once you've paid for that license, there is a ton of over the counter opportunities so the non-refundable license wasn't a complete waste. I think what some of the other people are saying in this post is that New Mexico is like a lottery in that it has terrible odds so essentially if you don't win with your lottery tickets you're out an additional $65 now.
Bottom line- until the number of applications goes down, or at least levels off, all of these state agencies are going to continue to raise prices on all tags and application fees. Simple supply and demand. Not saying I agree/like it, just the way it is.

NM actually has a lot of otc and easy to draw opportunities. Certainly not as much as other states but if you want to use that $65 you can find a way to do it. Its not a perfect system but to say you dont get anything for your money is a lie.

 

[tlowell02]

I think instead of looking at it like NR have to pay way too much for hunting we need to realize that residents don't pay nearly enough. $15.00 to kill an animal that can give you 300lb of meat is, quite honestly, an unreasonably low number for the value of that resource.

I think it was an episode of Meateater that really hit home with me, people will drop hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a pass to go skiing or play golf with no second thoughts but will cry a river if their hunting license goes up a few dollars. That's simply unreasonable.

Speaking as a longtime nonresident but this being my first year to put in as a resident, I can assure you it still isn't "cheap". Just yesterday I began filling in my application choices and the total bill, so far, is $500. That won't include turkey either.

Compare that to Texas where a resident supercombo costs $90? And includes seven deer tags and four turkey tags.

 

[5MilesBack]

It's a privilege for NR hunters to hunt any state, it's not a right. If we have to pay more for that, then that's how it is.

But you're not paying for the privilege "to hunt" NM........paying for the privilege to hunt NM is the cost of the tag which no one is arguing. You're paying for the opportunity "to apply", and may never draw. But it is what it is, and also why I've never applied in AZ.