Newly lost faith in health care

I have wondered over time about how ethnicity may affect nutritional aspects of health. Northern european diets versus southern european diets. Controls over what will grow where, refidgeration or lack of. Mtn climates vs coastal climates.

I have to believe that bodies have adapted to food opportunities given the location over generations. Such as more of a meat diet in the northern climates vs veg and fish diets along coasts.

With migration now this may have an effect on some populations. Just a thought !
 

I was part of this study. Lean Mass Hyper Responders: basically lean athletes on long term low carbohydrate diets with stratospherically high LDL cholesterol, but also low triglycerides and high HDL, nothing else obviously wrong with us (no diabetes, hypertension, etc), and no familial hyper-cholesterolemia.

Anyway, it raises serious doubts about diet heart hypothesis that we’ve been operating on for decades (high saturated fat leads to high cholesterol leads to heart disease). Maybe statins are appropriate, maybe they aren’t, but I wouldn’t take a doctor’s word on it just because LDL was high.
I just read the whole thing. The most important comment the author makes is "absolute risk vs independent risk factors". These were healthy body weight (I didn't see BF % but at ~22-23 BMI and exercising you can assume leaner than G pop at minimum), exercised regularly, no high BP, drugs, etc etc.

So basically it concludes that in really healthy people absolute risk of high LDL is very low. It should come as no surprise that really healthy people are resilient to independent risk factors. This study is important to less than 5% of the population.
 
I have wondered over time about how ethnicity may affect nutritional aspects of health. Northern european diets versus southern european diets. Controls over what will grow where, refidgeration or lack of. Mtn climates vs coastal climates.

I have to believe that bodies have adapted to food opportunities given the location over generations. Such as more of a meat diet in the northern climates vs veg and fish diets along coasts.

With migration now this may have an effect on some populations. Just a thought !

Edgar Cayce, the “sleeping prophet” used to say people should only eat foods from within 100 miles of where they live.
 
I have wondered over time about how ethnicity may affect nutritional aspects of health. Northern european diets versus southern european diets. Controls over what will grow where, refidgeration or lack of. Mtn climates vs coastal climates.

I have to believe that bodies have adapted to food opportunities given the location over generations. Such as more of a meat diet in the northern climates vs veg and fish diets along coasts.

With migration now this may have an effect on some populations. Just a thought !
Yes, you are definitely on to something. There are findings of when a western diet (eg more processed foods) get adopted by a native/indigenous group, that a rise in the incidence of obesity, diabetes and high blood pressure in those groups. It's pretty interesting to consider what a few 100k yrs worth of evolution likely does to out metabolism potentially....I guess we evolved to not get dehydrated or bleed to death, so our body always tries to hold on to salt
 
Proof source to support my claim:

IMG_0502.jpeg

Nincasi Brewery, Tacovore, Sweet Life Patisserie.

Bonus, beer garden, fisherman’s market, Taco Bell, and another bakery.

All within easy stumbling distance, if you hit the margaritas at Tacovore early.





P
 
A. Statins v. bad. Just don't.
B. It's genetics. So don't worry about it.
C. He prescribed it, he didn't pour it down your throat
 
I just read the whole thing. The most important comment the author makes is "absolute risk vs independent risk factors". These were healthy body weight (I didn't see BF % but at ~22-23 BMI and exercising you can assume leaner than G pop at minimum), exercised regularly, no high BP, drugs, etc etc.

So basically it concludes that in really healthy people absolute risk of high LDL is very low. It should come as no surprise that really healthy people are resilient to independent risk factors. This study is important to less than 5% of the population.
Yes and no to the last sentence.

Yes in that the population like us (Lean Mass Hyper Responders) is less than 5%. Way way way less than 5%. Very low to near zero carb lean athletes effectively didn’t exist 30 years ago, and are still rare today. I had an LDL cholesterol of 592, enough to give doctors heart attacks. They’d never heard of such a thing, and were completely shocked and horrified.

But the implications, they are far reaching. For decades, the operating assumption has been that THE big causative indicator for heart disease is cholesterol (first total, then LDL, then particle size, APo B, etc …). And with that eating fat, particularly animal fats (especially red meat and saturated fats) is the driver of LDL cholesterol. That assumption has radically changed our eating habits since the 1950s.
Don’t eat animal products, but load up on starchy carbohydrates and industrial seed oils, because they will lower cholesterol.
Well hooray it worked, cholesterol is lower. Most of America adopted a radical intervention with the best of intentions, what could possible go wrong?

How’s that working out? Has the population’s health improved?

Most people who go to a very low carbohydrate diet aren’t going to see massive increases in LDL cholesterol. But as they pull harder on any of these 3 levers by getting leaner, exercise more, and further lower carbohydrate, then LDL will rise.

The LMHR phenomenon appears that energy transfer system effect. Higher energy demand from fat, and less fat storage available from the body, then higher requirements for LDL cholesterol. That definitely matches my experience to a T. And I’ve tested that pretty thoroughly on myself. I get really high LDL when I’m ripped, working hard and eating 3 lbs of steak and not much else. And I dropped LDL 450 pts by getting fat, lazy and loading up on bread and fruit juice (which tanked my HDL, quadrupled my Triglycerides, and was the worst experience of my life), all to convince the army I was “healthy” enough to deploy. The irony.

You show me a guy with crazy high LDL, but also high HDL and low Triglycerides, and I’ll show you a lean athlete eating very few carbohydrates.

So why does this all matter? If LDL is the bad guy, the CAUSE of heart disease, then shouldn’t the ideal test of that assumption be the Lean Mass Hyper Reaponders? Shouldn’t an otherwise healthy population, but with massively high LDL be rapidly developing atherosclerosis?

It’s almost as though we don’t know what we think we know, and maybe it’s time to reevaluate our assumptions.
 
Proof source to support my claim:

View attachment 870826

Nincasi Brewery, Tacovore, Sweet Life Patisserie.

Bonus, beer garden, fisherman’s market, Taco Bell, and another bakery.

All within easy stumbling distance, if you hit the margaritas at Tacovore early.





P
Bonus, that trapline is also a good place to pick up a "female (or male) companion for hire"- depending on standards of course (these are the more budget-friendly variety).
 
Yes and no to the last sentence.

Yes in that the population like us (Lean Mass Hyper Responders) is less than 5%. Way way way less than 5%. Very low to near zero carb lean athletes effectively didn’t exist 30 years ago, and are still rare today. I had an LDL cholesterol of 592, enough to give doctors heart attacks. They’d never heard of such a thing, and were completely shocked and horrified.

But the implications, they are far reaching. For decades, the operating assumption has been that THE big causative indicator for heart disease is cholesterol (first total, then LDL, then particle size, APo B, etc …). And with that eating fat, particularly animal fats (especially red meat and saturated fats) is the driver of LDL cholesterol. That assumption has radically changed our eating habits since the 1950s.
Don’t eat animal products, but load up on starchy carbohydrates and industrial seed oils, because they will lower cholesterol.
Well hooray it worked, cholesterol is lower. Most of America adopted a radical intervention with the best of intentions, what could possible go wrong?

How’s that working out? Has the population’s health improved?

Most people who go to a very low carbohydrate diet aren’t going to see massive increases in LDL cholesterol. But as they pull harder on any of these 3 levers by getting leaner, exercise more, and further lower carbohydrate, then LDL will rise.

The LMHR phenomenon appears that energy transfer system effect. Higher energy demand from fat, and less fat storage available from the body, then higher requirements for LDL cholesterol. That definitely matches my experience to a T. And I’ve tested that pretty thoroughly on myself. I get really high LDL when I’m ripped, working hard and eating 3 lbs of steak and not much else. And I dropped LDL 450 pts by getting fat, lazy and loading up on bread and fruit juice (which tanked my HDL, quadrupled my Triglycerides, and was the worst experience of my life), all to convince the army I was “healthy” enough to deploy. The irony.

You show me a guy with crazy high LDL, but also high HDL and low Triglycerides, and I’ll show you a lean athlete eating very few carbohydrates.

So why does this all matter? If LDL is the bad guy, the CAUSE of heart disease, then shouldn’t the ideal test of that assumption be the Lean Mass Hyper Reaponders? Shouldn’t an otherwise healthy population, but with massively high LDL be rapidly developing atherosclerosis?

It’s almost as though we don’t know what we think we know, and maybe it’s time to reevaluate our assumptions.
You would have to follow them more than a year to make the conclusions you are making. Heart disease is a long-term disease.

I would also mention that you can have high HDL and low Triglycerides eating a shit pile of carbohydrates, they are not mutually exclusive. Those 2 factors are more indicative of exercise and metabolic condition than anything. For example, my HDL is 80+, Triglycerides sub 50 and I eat 300-400 carbs a day.

All this to say, I think many diets can work. IMO, being a reasonable bodyweight, lean, muscular and exercising hard are the most important, really terrible genetics withstanding, for long term health.
 
Yes and no to the last sentence.

Yes in that the population like us (Lean Mass Hyper Responders) is less than 5%. Way way way less than 5%. Very low to near zero carb lean athletes effectively didn’t exist 30 years ago, and are still rare today. I had an LDL cholesterol of 592, enough to give doctors heart attacks. They’d never heard of such a thing, and were completely shocked and horrified.

But the implications, they are far reaching. For decades, the operating assumption has been that THE big causative indicator for heart disease is cholesterol (first total, then LDL, then particle size, APo B, etc …). And with that eating fat, particularly animal fats (especially red meat and saturated fats) is the driver of LDL cholesterol. That assumption has radically changed our eating habits since the 1950s.
Don’t eat animal products, but load up on starchy carbohydrates and industrial seed oils, because they will lower cholesterol.
Well hooray it worked, cholesterol is lower. Most of America adopted a radical intervention with the best of intentions, what could possible go wrong?

How’s that working out? Has the population’s health improved?

Most people who go to a very low carbohydrate diet aren’t going to see massive increases in LDL cholesterol. But as they pull harder on any of these 3 levers by getting leaner, exercise more, and further lower carbohydrate, then LDL will rise.

The LMHR phenomenon appears that energy transfer system effect. Higher energy demand from fat, and less fat storage available from the body, then higher requirements for LDL cholesterol. That definitely matches my experience to a T. And I’ve tested that pretty thoroughly on myself. I get really high LDL when I’m ripped, working hard and eating 3 lbs of steak and not much else. And I dropped LDL 450 pts by getting fat, lazy and loading up on bread and fruit juice (which tanked my HDL, quadrupled my Triglycerides, and was the worst experience of my life), all to convince the army I was “healthy” enough to deploy. The irony.

You show me a guy with crazy high LDL, but also high HDL and low Triglycerides, and I’ll show you a lean athlete eating very few carbohydrates.

So why does this all matter? If LDL is the bad guy, the CAUSE of heart disease, then shouldn’t the ideal test of that assumption be the Lean Mass Hyper Reaponders? Shouldn’t an otherwise healthy population, but with massively high LDL be rapidly developing atherosclerosis?

It’s almost as though we don’t know what we think we know, and maybe it’s time to reevaluate our assumptions.

When my doc pointed out my slightly high HLD and brought up statins I had this exact same discussion, pointed out my high HLD, very low trigs, my exercise routine and diet. We then did ApoB which was fine, then a CAC which was 0 (I know the limitations of this on non-calcified plaque) she ended up agreeing that the numbers were not a concern but said she had to give me the print out saying I needed to eat less meat and more grain anyway due to hospital policy.
 
Interesting reading

Diet​

Dietary factors play a major role in CV risk through both excess caloric intake leading to obesity and specific dietary patterns such as processed meats and sugar sweetened beverages (29). However, data demonstrating plaque regression with diet intervention alone are limited. Ornish et al (1998) randomized 48 patients to intensive lifestyle changes (10% whole foods vegetarian diet, aerobic training, smoking cessation, group psychosocial support) and demonstrated reduced coronary atherosclerosis progression at 5 years (although this measured plaque regression by coronary angiography rather than direct plaque imaging) (30). The DISCO-CT trial randomized 92 patients to optimal medical therapy in addition to dietician follow-up with adherence to the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension nutrition model, compared with optimal medical therapy alone (31). Greater reductions in noncalcified plaque volumes measured by CT were observed in the experimental group, but there were no differences in percent atheroma volume. Most dietary arms of patients undergoing statin treatments have shown that plaque volumes progressed (32-35), and therefore, the usefulness of a diet strategy alone for plaque regression in established coronary disease can be considered limited.

Exercise​

Physical activity is well recognized as a useful intervention in both primary and secondary prevention of CV events. A recent Cochrane review and meta-analysis including 63 studies found that exercise-based cardiac rehabilitation led to a 26% reduction in CV mortality and 18% reduction in risk of hospital admission (while no significant differences in total mortality, myocardial infarction or revascularization were observed) (36). Two randomized trials using IVUS have assessed the impact of more intensive exercise on plaque regression (37,38). Although plaque regressed in the exercise arm of each trial, neither study showed a significant difference between treatment groups. However, in one trial’s post hoc analysis, patients that walked ≥7,000 steps per day had greater plaque regression compared with patients who walked <7,000 steps per day (−12.5% vs <3.6%; P < 0.05). Observational data regarding exercise and plaque are scant, but 1 study identified that reductions in IVUS-measured total atheroma volumes over 6 months were associated with a lifestyle modification score (comprised of exercise frequency, body mass index, smoking history) in multivariable analysis (39). Cross-sectional studies assessing plaque composition among athletes using CCTA demonstrated higher calcific plaque volume in athletes, whereas sedentary participants had greater mixed plaque morphologies, which are of higher risk for coronary events (15,40,41). Taken together, these data would support the promotion of exercise as offering modest benefits in plaque regression.
 
When my doc pointed out my slightly high HLD and brought up statins I had this exact same discussion, pointed out my high HLD, very low trigs, my exercise routine and diet. We then did ApoB which was fine, then a CAC which was 0 (I know the limitations of this on non-calcified plaque) she ended up agreeing that the numbers were not a concern but said she had to give me the print out saying I needed to eat less meat and more grain anyway due to hospital policy.
Your last sentence nailed my issue with our dietary guidelines. All these government guidelines are grain based(which are bogus imo). Im only 25 and i saw a dramatic difference in energy levels when I got off a traditional "healthy" American diet and went borderline carnivore. Im toeing the line of conspiracy theorist here but I think the promotion of a high carb/seed oil diet was designed break people down earlier and keep young people full and lethargic. With modern technology and knowledge i don't think people's bodies should be breaking down like they are at 50 and 60. Not saying everyone should be rogan or cam hanes at 60 but there is no reason to live another 20 to 30 years in a chair living off of handfuls of pills from the doctor.
 
Your last sentence nailed my issue with our dietary guidelines. All these government guidelines are grain based(which are bogus imo). Im only 25 and i saw a dramatic difference in energy levels when I got off a traditional "healthy" American diet and went borderline carnivore. Im toeing the line of conspiracy theorist here but I think the promotion of a high carb/seed oil diet was designed break people down earlier and keep young people full and lethargic. With modern technology and knowledge i don't think people's bodies should be breaking down like they are at 50 and 60. Not saying everyone should be rogan or cam hanes at 60 but there is no reason to live another 20 to 30 years in a chair living off of handfuls of pills from the doctor.
My guess is it's more about how the hell would we feed 340 million people on a carnivore diet.

The food pyramid is more based on a population not starving instead of "optimized". Each trophic level is only 8-10% efficient so you can get 10-12x more calories out of the primary producer (plants) than the first herbivore (cows).
 
Your last sentence nailed my issue with our dietary guidelines. All these government guidelines are grain based(which are bogus imo). Im only 25 and i saw a dramatic difference in energy levels when I got off a traditional "healthy" American diet and went borderline carnivore. Im toeing the line of conspiracy theorist here but I think the promotion of a high carb/seed oil diet was designed break people down earlier and keep young people full and lethargic. With modern technology and knowledge i don't think people's bodies should be breaking down like they are at 50 and 60. Not saying everyone should be rogan or cam hanes at 60 but there is no reason to live another 20 to 30 years in a chair living off of handfuls of pills from the doctor.

My guess is it's more about how the hell would we feed 340 million people on a carnivore diet.

The food pyramid is more based on a population not starving instead of "optimized". Each trophic level is only 8-10% efficient so you can get 10-12x more calories out of the primary producer (plants) than the first herbivore (cows).

I doubt it has to do with specifically trying to keep people weak and lethargic. I do think there was some history of feeding a population.

I think its much more simple. Large companies profit off of highly processed food and really do not off of largely unprocessed meat and vegetables. Most processed food takes very cheap ingredients, processes them and sells them at an attractive margin. While meat and veggies (other than highly processed forms) really only go through corporate distribution at much lower margins.

Big companies making high profits leads to lobbying government, and I dont mean any dirty lobbying but are investing lots of money in convincing government this is the best food. The origins of the food pyramid were grain subsidies during WW2 and what to do with the excess post war, then lots of studies funded by big food companies to make the argument convincing. Its not a conspiracy, pretty out in the open.
 
I doubt it has to do with specifically trying to keep people weak and lethargic. I do think there was some history of feeding a population.

I think its much more simple. Large companies profit off of highly processed food and really do not off of largely unprocessed meat and vegetables. Most processed food takes very cheap ingredients, processes them and sells them at an attractive margin. While meat and veggies (other than highly processed forms) really only go through corporate distribution at much lower margins.

Big companies making high profits leads to lobbying government, and I dont mean any dirty lobbying but are investing lots of money in convincing government this is the best food. The origins of the food pyramid were grain subsidies during WW2 and what to do with the excess post war, then lots of studies funded by big food companies to make the argument convincing. Its not a conspiracy, pretty out in the open.
Is it dirty lobbying if it is addictive/ unhealthy? There is no argument that carbohydrates both processed and unprocessed are addictive. The Federal government has not had a pro-population agenda since teddy Roosevelt. We have been lied to about everything since Roosevelt said we have a right to know what is in our food and medicine and it's probably not healthy to keep a side of beef on the floor laying in a pool of blood and fat.

On the topic of not being able to produce more animal products, why are we subsidizing farmers to not use land? In addition, nearly the whole central ny dairy industry has been wiped out as a result of the milk and butter are bad for you campaign. There are a lot of places up there that have been farmed for over 100 years that are sitting vacant.

And efficency wise if that was the case, they should have looked to input vs output. I can get a lot farther on steak and eggs vs a bag of granola and spaghetti.
 
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