New MT Mule Deer Rifle Season

[brockel]

Being a lifelong eastern Montana resident I promise you something needs to be done. This free for all on our “management” of mule deer has to come to an end. 11,000 mule deer doe tags for the entire region 7 is a joke when technically all those 11k could be used in the same county. It needs to be broke down and managed per district vs an entire Region which is like 36,000 square miles. Also needs to be broke down into public and private land doe tags

And it’s not just non residents. I see a ton of western Montana vehicles throughout the fall. The way Montana’s resident population is growing an over the counter tag that’s good from September 3rd to Christmas Eve this year is just not sustainable

 

[Sioux33]

You are incorrect. Mule deer are easy to find- they aren’t cagey. There are states that have shortened seasons/opportunities that have seen what happens. There are states that have near identical habitat, terrain, feed, genetics, etc. but different structures- one for “quality over quantity” and one for “quantity over trophy”. One has a week or two season and bucks get slaughtered. One has an extremely long season, and opening day of rifle is darn near quite. That state also used to limit rifle season to one-two weeks and then went to almost two months. The amount of bucks killed dropped noticeably once they lengthens the season.

So, were these seasons during or before the rut? That's a huge difference and if they're not apples to apples, then it doesn't really hold water.

You cannot honestly say you're going to shoot more deer in 3 weeks of hunting in October when bucks aren't chasing does, than you are in 2 weeks of Oct plus 4 weeks of November, when bucks are going crazy.

 

[Formidilosus]

More deer on accessible ground and a older age class. Shooting 1.5-2.5 year old deer isn’t an older age class.

How does “older age class” make a better healthier herd? The answer is that it doesn’t. That is the reason that people want to change it- “trophy”. Just be honest about it.

 

[huntnful]

Well damn, I love hunting MT in November. Probably see 30+ bucks and very few people. This literally only has to be an issue close to roads. All I hear there is people everywhere and deer numbers suck. Yeah, that's probably true.... right next to the roads. There are great deer numbers and no people in the actual back-country in November.

I had a dude tell me there was no big deer in unit I was hunting, then proceeds to show me some dink 3x4 he killed after 5 "hard" days of hunting. The buck was whole, in the back of a SXS. I said "yeah, they don't get big hanging out where everyone can drive around and kill them". He got butt hurt, obviously lol. Then I proceeded to glass probably 20 bucks bigger than the one he killed, and then killed a 10 1/2 year old buck..... 5 miles from the road. No need to change the whole world because of a skewed perspective IMO

 

[Formidilosus]

So, were these seasons during or before the rut? That's a huge difference and if they're not apples to apples, then it doesn't really hold water.

You cannot honestly say you're going to shoot more deer in 3 weeks of hunting in October when bucks aren't chasing does, than you are in 2 weeks of Oct plus 4 weeks of November, when bucks are going crazy.

Both during the rut. And yes, 100% more non serious people will fill their tag because “they have to”, they don’t have time to come back later. I’ve lived in both types imply times. You artificially limit the “duration”, you kill more deer in that duration.

 

[Lawnboi]

Being a lifelong eastern Montana resident I promise you something needs to be done. This free for all on our “management” of mule deer has to come to an end. 11,000 mule deer doe tags for the entire region 7 is a joke when technically all those 11k could be used in the same county. It needs to be broke down and managed per district vs an entire Region which is like 36,000 square miles. Also needs to be broke down into public and private land doe tags

And it’s not just non residents. I see a ton of western Montana vehicles throughout the fall. The way Montana’s resident population is growing an over the counter tag that’s good from September 3rd to Christmas Eve this year is just not sustainable

Specific to region 7, I’d agree that a little more control over doe tags is not a bad idea. Some areas definitely receive more pressure than others. If needed why don’t we see a push in legislation for that, instead of cutting seasons?

Groups want to cut seasons only because they think it will result in bigger bucks. Atleast that’s my understanding

 

[Lawnboi]

You are incorrect. Mule deer are easy to find- they aren’t cagey. There are states that have shortened seasons/opportunities that have seen what happens. There are states that have near identical habitat, terrain, feed, genetics, etc. but different structures- one for “quality over quantity” and one for “quantity over trophy”. One has a week or two season and bucks get slaughtered. One has an extremely long season, and opening day of rifle is darn near quite. That state also used to limit rifle season to one-two weeks and then went to almost two months. The amount of bucks killed dropped noticeably once they lengthens the season.

This is my experience with Montana, along with its neighboring state. All a shorter season will do is put a shit load of people in the same spot all at once.

 

[MT257]

How does “older age class” make a better healthier herd? The answer is that it doesn’t. That is the reason that people want to change it- “trophy”. Just be honest about it.

I’d sure like to see deer herds with older deer in them. When all you see is 1.5-2.5 year old deer all season. I’m not aiming for the biggest deer on earth, but for crying out loud when you have fork horns tending a herd of 15+ Does these areas need a little more age class to them.

 

[Formidilosus]

Being a lifelong eastern Montana resident I promise you something needs to be done. This free for all on our “management” of mule deer has to come to an end. 11,000 mule deer doe tags for the entire region 7 is a joke when technically all those 11k could be used in the same county. It needs to be broke down and managed per district vs an entire Region which is like 36,000 square miles. Also needs to be broke down into public and private land doe tags

Eliminate the doe tags if deer numbers aren’t sustainable.

And it’s not just non residents. I see a ton of western Montana vehicles throughout the fall. The way Montana’s resident population is growing an over the counter tag that’s good from September 3rd to Christmas Eve this year is just not sustainable

Sure it is. Again, if deer numbers are low, eliminate the doe tags. You can have 1 buck in all of region 7, yet allow 50,000 bucks tags to be sold, and killing that one buck does not hurt the herd. As long as dies are alive, there will be more bucks next year.

 

[Geewhiz]

Well damn, I love hunting MT in November. Probably see 30+ bucks and very few people. This literally only has to be an issue close to roads. All I hear there is people everywhere and deer numbers suck. Yeah, that's probably true.... right next to the roads. There are great deer numbers and no people in the actual back-country in November.

I had a dude tell me there was no big deer in unit I was hunting, then proceeds to show me some dink 3x4 he killed after 5 "hard" days of hunting. The buck was whole, in the back of a SXS. I said "yeah, they don't get big hanging out where everyone can drive around and kill them". He got butt hurt, obviously lol. Then I proceeded to glass probably 20 bucks bigger than the one he killed, and then killed a 10 1/2 year old buck..... 5 miles from the road. No need to change the whole world because of a skewed perspective IMO

SSSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

 

[Formidilosus]

I’d sure like to see deer herds with older deer in them. When all you see is 1.5-2.5 year old deer all season. I’m not aiming for the biggest deer on earth, but for crying out loud when you have fork horns tending a herd of 15+ Does these areas need a little more age class to them.

Then just say you would rather people not hunt so you can see bigger deer- it has absolutely nothing to do with “good herds”. There is absolutely nothing biologically wrong with a fork horn breeding every single doe alive.

 

[ianpadron]

I haven't read all the comments but I don't understand why people are whining. I will say I don't think you should have a say in how montana is managed unless you live here.

Maybe look up how much of MT FWPs budget is funded by NR license sales.

I don't necessarily disagree with you tbh, especially as a new MT resident, but it's tough to write off NRs when they're the ones keeping the lights on. Same thing in Idaho.

 

[Lawnboi]

Having hunted Montana quite a bit for a few different species I’ll say this thread has more clues to a successful hunt than any “where should I hunt Montana” Iv seen. Some things are best kept secret

And to residents saying there is no say for a non, your partially right. I won’t even talk about money from non residents cause as a resident of a state that collects non res hunting money that dosnt mean squat to me.

Go shoot one of those deer you claim are yours without a tag and see how the state sees it.

 

[Sioux33]

Both during the rut. And yes, 100% more non serious people will fill their tag because “they have to”, they don’t have time to come back later. I’ve lived in both types imply times. You artificially limit the “duration”, you kill more deer in that duration.

Ok, we can agree to disagree on that approach. All I know is that I've seen first hand how the quality of the hunt has diminished from piss pounding them through the rut with rifles.

My solution was to rifle hunt for a few weeks in October and archery hunt in November. That doesn't shorten seasons, that changes the opportunity type and relieves the resource significantly. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Hunting shouldn't be a cakewalk for everyone and if it is, you get what we have now in MT, miles and miles of public land devoid of elk and deer, surrounded by private land sanctuaries.

 

[Geewhiz]

Maybe look up how much of MT FWPs budget is funded by NR license sales.

I don't necessarily disagree with you tbh, especially as a new MT resident, but it's tough to write off NRs when they're the ones keeping the lights on. Same thing in Idaho.

I didn't say write them off. I said don't sell out. Talk to and get oppinions from people that live here and experience it for more than 1 week per year.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

I personally hope that this becomes the season dates. October 1 - 15 is when I personally believe the bucks are the least vulnerable and would help age classes by running the season then.

 

[MT257]

I personally hope that this becomes the season dates. October 1 - 15 is when I personally believe the bucks are the least vulnerable and would help age classes by running the season then.

Careful that kinda talk only implies you want trophy deer.

 

[Tmac]

Where I hunt SE MT the die off was terrible. Population is way down. Would not bother me a bit to stop all doe tags, including WT B tags, to help the population rebound. No idea if that is a localized issue, if so it’s unlikely any tag reductions would be done, if over a large area then they should.

 

[brockel]

Specific to region 7, I’d agree that a little more control over doe tags is not a bad idea. Some areas definitely receive more pressure than others. If needed why don’t we see a push in legislation for that, instead of cutting seasons?

Groups want to cut seasons only because they think it will result in bigger bucks. Atleast that’s my understanding

I’ve brought this up to the biologists many times. They are trying to “simplify” the regs this year so that goes exact opposite to what managing by district would be. Which to me isn’t right. They also use the excuse of CWD as a reason for all the doe tags

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

Careful that kinda talk only implies you want trophy deer.

Yeah, I probably better. I mean, we wouldn't want more mature bucks doing the breeding.