New MT Mule Deer Rifle Season

[MT257]

I see about a 0.5% chance of mule deer seasons changing in the next 5 yrs. In all honesty, seasons arent causing our mule deer to decrease. The real issues are habitat and elk/whitetail competition. And given our current legislature/governor situation here there is no way they are doing anything that may decrease business to outfitting operations, which season structure would definitely do.

Not sure about this statement. The director is on record saying the next thing they look at changing is mule deer hunting in this state. Time will tell I guess.

 

[MT257]

Why do you believe it’s a problem that people shoot 4x4’s? Why do you believe you have a “right” to “big” bucks. Why does big bucks equal herd health to you?

Not sure he means it’s a bad thing to shoot a 4x4. I think what he’s getting at is allowing rut hunting of these deer during a vulnerable time you take a lot more deer off the landscape that are of an older age. Not saying everyone wants to shoot a 2 point. Some people would rather shoot 4.5 year old deer. Sure seems in recent years the most people have to notch that tag even if it’s 1.5 year old to get a pic for the gram to show they accomplished something?

I too think that by shortening the season here it would have positive impacts on the herds.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing that in order for a NR to be able to buy a doe tag they must have a valid buck tag and only then would they be allowed to buy one (1) mule deer doe tag. Shooting 5 mule deer does just cause you can does nothing to help the herd other than deplete the resource imo.

 

[Lawnboi]

Not sure he means it’s a bad thing to shoot a 4x4. I think what he’s getting at is allowing rut hunting of these deer during a vulnerable time you take a lot more deer off the landscape that are of an older age. Not saying everyone wants to shoot a 2 point. Some people would rather shoot 4.5 year old deer. Sure seems in recent years the most people have to notch that tag even if it’s 1.5 year old to get a pic for the gram to show they accomplished something?

I too think that by shortening the season here it would have positive impacts on the herds.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing that in order for a NR to be able to buy a doe tag they must have a valid buck tag and only then would they be allowed to buy one (1) mule deer doe tag. Shooting 5 mule deer does just cause you can does nothing to help the herd other than deplete the resource imo.

That’s a really easy solution. If the area can’t handle having does taken…. Limit the b tags. Wait they do that already.

 

[MT257]

That’s a really easy solution. If the area can’t handle having does taken…. Limit the b tags. Wait they do that already.

Not sure they do. With quotas so high and all they push is opportunity I’m not real sure it’s called good management.

 

[Formidilosus]

Not sure he means it’s a bad thing to shoot a 4x4. I think what he’s getting at is allowing rut hunting of these deer during a vulnerable time you take a lot more deer off the landscape. I too think that by shortening the season here it would have positive impacts on the herds.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing that in order for a NR to be able to buy a doe tag they must have a valid buck tag and only then would they be allowed to buy one (1) mule deer doe tag. Shooting 5 mule deer does just cause you can does nothing to help the herd other than deplete the resource imo.

Shooting bucks does not reduce the herd. All the females will get bred regardless. Shooting females certianly does however. All that eliminating the rut portion, or shortening the season does is make it where people that hunt only a few days each season, see bigger deer, easier. That’s it.
It’s the same nonsense that sheep hunting is. People would rather hunt less, but see bigger rams, rather than hunt each year, but see smaller rams. It’s selfish. I say this as someone who didn’t kill a buck this year because I didn’t see one I wanted. In fact I am about 50/50 each year on bucks. If the season were shorter would I see more deer I want or bigger deer? Of course. But that is silly. Every other state does that, I could easily go hunt somewhere else, or put in for LE units if that’s what I wanted.


Not only that, but shortening the season concentrates the same amount of people into smaller windows which will greatly and noticeably increase the amount of pressure and people you see. It also causes more people to shoot the first animal they see because they feel they don’t have enough time to let one pass. That’s real, and it’s noticeable. Shortening season has the exact opposite effect of what people thinks it does.

MT’s season structure is good and different than most. Opportunity over “trophy”. People that want to hunt big deer are free to do so, people that just want to hunt are free to do so, and people that want to hunt more than a week or two are free to do so as well.

 

[Geewhiz]

I haven't read all the comments but I don't understand why people are whining. I will say I don't think you should have a say in how montana is managed unless you live here.

 

[Sioux33]

Why do you believe it’s a problem that people shoot 4x4’s? Why do you believe you have a “right” to “big” bucks. Why does big bucks equal herd health to you?

I never said it was a problem to shoot 4x4's, but this ranch was a recent BMA acquisition and another year or two of that is going to leave them with zero deer because everything will be living next door on the neighbors property. What does that do for us public land hunters?

This has been the trend in both elk and deer hunting in MT. Piss pound the public ground for 11 weeks and drive everything onto private, so we can all have our opportunity. It's gotten way worse the last few years with more new resident hunters and most guys spending way more time out in the field than in the past. The current season structure might've worked 10 years ago, but if you spend much time on MT public land you'll see it's turned into an absolute shit show.

If you at least went to November archery-only, you'd still have your opportunity and wouldn't have near the people out over-pressuring the resource.

 

[Formidilosus]

I never said it was a problem to shoot 4x4's, but this ranch was a recent BMA acquisition and another year or two of that is going to leave them with zero deer because everything will be living next door on the neighbors property. What does that do for us public land hunters?

This has been the trend in both elk and deer hunting in MT. Piss pound the public ground for 11 weeks and drive everything onto private, so we can all have our opportunity. It's gotten way worse the last few years with more new resident hunters and most guys spending way more time out in the field than in the past. The current season structure might've worked 10 years ago, but if you spend much time on MT public land you'll see it's turned into an absolute shit show.

If you at least went to November archery-only, you'd still have your opportunity and wouldn't have near the people out over-pressuring the resource.

From mid October to December I believe it was only 6 DTS fathers I didn’t hunt. 100% on public land. I am well aware of what is happening. The amount of deer being shot is the result of easy access and tag numbers. You take that 11 week season and shorten it, it absolutely will result in more hunters shooting more deer. Human nature makes it that every single time you try to limit an item, it causes people to desire that item.

 

[MT257]

Shooting bucks does not reduce the herd. All the females will get bred regardless. Shooting females certianly does however. All that eliminating the rut portion, or shortening the season does is make it where people that hunt only a few days each season, see bigger deer, easier. That’s it.
It’s the same nonsense that sheep hunting is. People would rather hunt less, but see bigger rams, rather than hunt each year, but see smaller rams. It’s selfish. I say this as someone who didn’t kill a buck this year because I didn’t see one I wanted. In fact I am about 50/50 each year on bucks. If the season were shorter would I see more deer I want or bigger deer? Of course. But that is silly. Every other state does that, I could easily go hunt somewhere else, or put in for LE units if that’s what I wanted.


Not only that, but shortening the season concentrates the same amount of people into smaller windows which will greatly and noticeably increase the amount of pressure and people you see. It also causes more people to shoot the first animal they see because they feel they don’t have enough time to let one pass. That’s real, and it’s noticeable. Shortening season has the exact opposite effect of what people thinks it does.

MT’s season structure is good and different than most. Opportunity over “trophy”. People that want to hunt big deer are free to do so, people that just want to hunt are free to do so, and people that want to hunt more than a week or two are free to do so as well.

I didn’t mean my comment to imply shooting 30 bucks in a week off one place it is not helping with the older age class on the landscape.

I am with you in the regard that I rarely shoot a deer any more unless it’s truly something I want. I’ve come to the realization that in Montana at some point we will have to cross the bridge of - so we allow every resident to have a tag every to the point of pushing them onto inaccessible ground or be a bit more restrictive and still have a resource on the accessible ground? I hope we start becoming more restrictive sooner rather than before it’s way too late. Change is hard and it will upset a lot of people. We are hurting the mule deer herds more than most think by hunting them through the rut. Why are we the only western state that allows OTC mule deer rut hunting. That’s because the other states realize its not good for the long term of the herd.

 

[Formidilosus]

I didn’t mean my comment to imply shooting 30 bucks in a week off one place it is not helping with the older age class on the landscape.

I am with you in the regard that I rarely shoot a deer any more unless it’s truly something I want. I’ve come to the realization that in Montana at some point we will have to cross the bridge of - so we allow every resident to have a tag every to the point of pushing them onto inaccessible ground or be a bit more restrictive and still have a resource on the accessible ground? I hope we start becoming more restrictive sooner rather than before it’s way too late. Change is hard and it will upset a lot of people. We are hurting the mule deer herds more than most think by hunting them through the rut. Why are we the only western state that allows OTC mule deer rut hunting. That’s because the other states realize its not good for the long term of the herd.

Where are deer numbers other than the NW “bad”? And that’s not how it works anyways. No one is pushing mule deer does off of any land.

The reality is yes, it’s getting “worse”, and has been for about a decade. Yet everyone’s answer is to do what every other state that’s worse is doing. You’re taking it down the wrong path. Every single state could make it OTC buck only, and the herds would be just fine if not larger than they are currently. Limiting season, structure, and having special seasons for someone’s pet method (archery/muzzleloader) is ONLY to make it easier to shoot bigger bucks for THOSE people. That’s it.

 

[MT257]

Where are deer numbers other than the NW “bad”?

All of eastern Montana. Every year it continues to decline because of the everyone comes east to take their 1.5 year old deer home cause they shot their herd out in the west. The hunting could be leaps and bounds better if we would implement a bit of restriction. Just remember the best is NOT yet to come in Montana for the average joe hunter. The best has already been seen and it’s a slow decline from here out.

 

[WCB]

First step should be choose your weapon. Keep tag allocation the same but you have to pick archery or firearms.


Also, in regards to mule deer populations in general...zero reason to kill does. No idea why there is a mule deer do tag anywhere...also zero idea who would want to shoot one. might as well just pull up to a flock of sheep and have at it.

 

[Sioux33]

From mid October to December I believe it was only 6 DTS fathers I didn’t hunt. 100% on public land. I am well aware of what is happening. The amount of deer being shot is the result of easy access and tag numbers. You take that 11 week season and shorten it, it absolutely will result in more hunters shooting more deer. Human nature makes it that every single time you try to limit an item, it causes people to desire that item.

There's no way you're going to shoot more deer by shortening the seasons. You're comparing pre-rut in October vs full-on rut hunting with a rifle all of November.

 

[WCB]

All of eastern Montana. Every year it continues to decline because of the everyone comes east to take their 1.5 year old deer home cause they shot their herd out in the west. The hunting could be leaps and bounds better if we would implement a bit of restriction. Just remember the best is NOT yet to come in Montana for the average joe hunter. The best has already been seen and it’s a slow decline from here out.

Killing bucks doesn't really effect the herd...maybe you mean age class or trophy number of deer. But you cant swing a stick in eastern MT without hitting mule deer

 

[MT257]

Killing bucks doesn't really effect the herd...maybe you mean age class or trophy number of deer. But you cant swing a stick in eastern MT without hitting mule deer

Yes I clarified that. It could still be much better. Everyone that’s not from this part of the state thinks it’s overflowing with deer because they don’t have any where they came from cause the herds have been decimated because of the general license and long seasons.

 

[Lawnboi]

Not sure they do. With quotas so high and all they push is opportunity I’m not real sure it’s called good management.

I’ll preface this by saying no matter what state your in, I think most would agree that big game is not managed to its potential. Heard it since I started hunting at age 12, and will likely hear it the rest of my life. In regards to Montana, I see your stance as one that they give out too many tags. I’m not a biologist, so I tend to take their word for it. That said if there’s no does in my yard, I’m also not shooting the only one coming in, so to speak.

That said this year all I went on was doe tags, buddy had a buck tag. I’d like to share with you, in case you don’t know how currently non residents get b tags. B tag draw dosnt happen till late due to them wanting to see how the winter goes for the deer. You apply for a single b tag, region and or zone specific. You might draw one tag. Excess no longer go on sale, there is a second draw. While in the past guys could get 5 doe tags, it was not like that this year.

In regards to doe tags. I try to be a responsible hunter, I’m not going to shoot a bunch of doe in an area I see struggling. That said, hunting this year we had in excess of 100 doe counted in 3 days. Number of different bucks was in the single digits. I had no issues taking the couple doe I did.

That said asking for limited opportunity, so certain people experiences are better is also shooting ourselves in the foot.

I’m not trying to sound like a dick but I get fired up, regardless of state, when people want to limit hunting opportunity more even though a big game herd is healthy.

And in regards to Instagram and that bullshit, don’t even have one. I hunt for myself only and as you can see appreciate the meat so much that I would drive to Montana to shoot two doe. People have forgotten what hunting is about. Limiting opportunity for bigger bucks no matter what way you cut it is one hunter wanting more opportunity at the expense of another.

Just some food for thought from a responsible respectful non resident that gets cocksuckered by others for the plates on my truck.

 

[Formidilosus]

There's no way you're going to shoot more deer by shortening the seasons. You're comparing pre-rut in October vs full-on rut hunting with a rifle all of November.

You are incorrect. Mule deer are easy to find- they aren’t cagey. There are states that have shortened seasons/opportunities that have seen what happens. There are states that have near identical habitat, terrain, feed, genetics, etc. but different structures- one for “quality over quantity” and one for “quantity over trophy”. One has a week or two season and bucks get slaughtered. One has an extremely long season, and opening day of rifle is darn near quite. That state also used to limit rifle season to one-two weeks and then went to almost two months. The amount of bucks killed dropped noticeably once they lengthens the season.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yes I clarified that. It could still be much better. Everyone that’s not from this part of the state thinks it’s overflowing with deer because they don’t have any where they came from cause the herds have been decimated because of the general license and long seasons.

Better in what way- more deer or bigger deer?

 

[MT257]

Better in what way- more deer or bigger deer?

More deer on accessible ground and a older age class. Shooting 1.5-2.5 year old deer isn’t an older age class.

 

[hobbes]

First step should be choose your weapon. Keep tag allocation the same but you have to pick archery or firearms.


Also, in regards to mule deer populations in general...zero reason to kill does. No idea why there is a mule deer do tag anywhere...also zero idea who would want to shoot one. might as well just pull up to a flock of sheep and have at it.

Choose your weapon is another let's do it like the other states idea. I've no interest in turning MT into Colorado. If you want to impose that on nonresidents, go ahead, but leave resident hunters the heck alone.

I agree on the mule deer does. Other than a few urban areas that are overran, why are we killing mule deer does? Whitetail does, sure, but not mule deer.