Most reliable and shootable 9mm semi auto pistols

Just wondering.... It is far more likely that I suck than the gun, right? I know absolutely nothing about compact pistol accuracy and prevalence, or lack thereof, of factory guns shooting shotgun patterns rather than groups.

No need to worry about the gun's capability, right?
 
Just wondering.... It is far more likely that I suck than the gun, right? I know absolutely nothing about compact pistol accuracy and prevalence, or lack thereof, of factory guns shooting shotgun patterns rather than groups.

No need to worry about the gun's capability, right?

No.

P365’s will shoot around 3” for ten rounds at 25 yards.
 
I wouldn’t say you suck, just lack experience. There is a difference.

To me, shooting a pistol well requires a level of “intimacy” with said pistol which only comes from thousands of dry fires and even more rounds.

You can’t be in a hurry to get competent, but consistently training and doing everything right takes patience and discipline.
 
That's not bad at all for a first-time out as a new pistol shooter. Pistols are a lot less forgiving than rifles when it comes to accuracy - there's just a lot more going on. Striker-fired triggers especially take more time to really get command of, in terms of being able to pull the trigger without the sights moving at all.

Couple of things:

- Dry-firing really is the secret sauce for getting command of a handgun's trigger, and getting the basics of your grip, as you've already partially discovered. I dry-fire 10x what I do over live ammo. Dry-firing 20 excellent reps every day will get you more accurate on single shots with your handgun faster than 200 live rounds will in one weekly range session. It's the consistency of doing it daily where you get your gains. Doing it right before you go to bed also helps - the brain works on it while you sleep.

- At its core, you're trying to isolate your trigger finger from all the rest of the mechanics of your grip, pressing the trigger without any of your hands' other muscles firing sympathetically. You want total isolation of your trigger finger from everything else in your hands.

- Your trigger finger is the only part of your limbs you want doing anything with fine motor-skill movement. Lock your wrists, elbows, and shoulders, and change your point of aim by slightly adjusting your torso. The more you try to adjust the sights with your grip or wrists, the more inconsistent it'll get in breaking each and every shot. As oxymoronic as it sounds, the less "precise" you are with your body trying to adjust the sight picture, especially via wrist or grip, the more precise your handgun shooting will be.

- Try to get each rep fired without your sights moving at all during the entire trigger-press cycle. It's not an excellent rep if your sights move at all, even after the trigger break.

- Practice pressing your trigger straight back to the tip of your nose. You'll notice that when you forget, the front sight will have a tendency to slip left or right. When you're doing it perfectly and consistently, you'll even hear a difference in the tone of the internals of the gun, between perfectly straight-back, and a little left/right pressure on the trigger.

- If you want an actual process or set to work through, do a "Four Square". It's four rounds of 10 dry-fire reps. Put a tack on the wall as a target, btw. First round, normal two-handed grip, for 10 slow, deliberate, precise reps. Second, 10 reps strong-hand. Third, 10 reps weak-hand. Fourth, 10 reps both hands again. Here's the important part: with every rep that's not perfect, try to replicate it in why it went bad. It goes a hair left? Try to replicate that, so that you understand what you did wrong.

Good luck in your development and training, and try to do whatever you do consistently. Those targets you put up were pretty good given how little you've shot centerfire handguns. Save them. You'll be proud of your progress in a couple of months.
 
I would agree, you don't suck, not all all. In fact, I'd guess in the extremely unlikely event you needed that pistol for said incident, if you can shoot even that well, quickly, you'd probably get by okay with that, as long as you're not imagining your route to success is hitting a bear's brain in said incident (I'll add a little more on that dead horse and a couple of other things).

One suggestion I'd add, that has really helped me, I think, is adding in a laser cartridge to at least some of your dry firing. Dry fire is great, but it doesn't give you any feedback on where your shot would actually be going. Adding a laser cartridge and continually changing what you're trying to hit can be super helpful.

If you practice putting your first shot on target, especially from drawing, the following shots follow very similar form and will likely be better placed as well. Of course, live ammo practice is needed too, but I'd practice this much more over live ammo, which is way more cost prohibitive and harder to do, time wise.

I should add, a laser cartridge also gives you trigger feedback. A "good" trigger pull produces a clean unmovig dot. A "poor" trigger pull produces a streak and also shows you which way your pistol is moving after the trigger break. This provides a lot of feedback for experimenting with you hold, your trigger finger, and is probably harder to diagnose with live ammo.
 
Slapped a straight SAO trigger and extended safety in my S2c today. Sweet upgrade.....

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That's not bad at all for a first-time out as a new pistol shooter. Pistols are a lot less forgiving than rifles when it comes to accuracy - there's just a lot more going on. Striker-fired triggers especially take more time to really get command of, in terms of being able to pull the trigger without the sights moving at all.

Couple of things:

- Dry-firing really is the secret sauce for getting command of a handgun's trigger, and getting the basics of your grip, as you've already partially discovered. I dry-fire 10x what I do over live ammo. Dry-firing 20 excellent reps every day will get you more accurate on single shots with your handgun faster than 200 live rounds will in one weekly range session. It's the consistency of doing it daily where you get your gains. Doing it right before you go to bed also helps - the brain works on it while you sleep.

- At its core, you're trying to isolate your trigger finger from all the rest of the mechanics of your grip, pressing the trigger without any of your hands' other muscles firing sympathetically. You want total isolation of your trigger finger from everything else in your hands.

- Your trigger finger is the only part of your limbs you want doing anything with fine motor-skill movement. Lock your wrists, elbows, and shoulders, and change your point of aim by slightly adjusting your torso. The more you try to adjust the sights with your grip or wrists, the more inconsistent it'll get in breaking each and every shot. As oxymoronic as it sounds, the less "precise" you are with your body trying to adjust the sight picture, especially via wrist or grip, the more precise your handgun shooting will be.

- Try to get each rep fired without your sights moving at all during the entire trigger-press cycle. It's not an excellent rep if your sights move at all, even after the trigger break.

- Practice pressing your trigger straight back to the tip of your nose. You'll notice that when you forget, the front sight will have a tendency to slip left or right. When you're doing it perfectly and consistently, you'll even hear a difference in the tone of the internals of the gun, between perfectly straight-back, and a little left/right pressure on the trigger.

- If you want an actual process or set to work through, do a "Four Square". It's four rounds of 10 dry-fire reps. Put a tack on the wall as a target, btw. First round, normal two-handed grip, for 10 slow, deliberate, precise reps. Second, 10 reps strong-hand. Third, 10 reps weak-hand. Fourth, 10 reps both hands again. Here's the important part: with every rep that's not perfect, try to replicate it in why it went bad. It goes a hair left? Try to replicate that, so that you understand what you did wrong.

Good luck in your development and training, and try to do whatever you do consistently. Those targets you put up were pretty good given how little you've shot centerfire handguns. Save them. You'll be proud of your progress in a couple of months.

Thank you the tips! I'll be sure to use that dryfire drill, and can usually do so daily. My typical solo time is late night when everyone is asleep, so I use it for reloading, or other craft type projects. I really like this part :

"Here's the important part: with every rep that's not perfect, try to replicate it in why it went bad. "
 
I would agree, you don't suck, not all all. In fact, I'd guess in the extremely unlikely event you needed that pistol for said incident, if you can shoot even that well, quickly, you'd probably get by okay with that, as long as you're not imagining your route to success is hitting a bear's brain in said incident (I'll add a little more on that dead horse and a couple of other things).

One suggestion I'd add, that has really helped me, I think, is adding in a laser cartridge to at least some of your dry firing. Dry fire is great, but it doesn't give you any feedback on where your shot would actually be going. Adding a laser cartridge and continually changing what you're trying to hit can be super helpful.

If you practice putting your first shot on target, especially from drawing, the following shots follow very similar form and will likely be better placed as well. Of course, live ammo practice is needed too, but I'd practice this much more over live ammo, which is way more cost prohibitive and harder to do, time wise.

I should add, a laser cartridge also gives you trigger feedback. A "good" trigger pull produces a clean unmovig dot. A "poor" trigger pull produces a streak and also shows you which way your pistol is moving after the trigger break. This provides a lot of feedback for experimenting with you hold, your trigger finger, and is probably harder to diagnose with live ammo.
I'm sure I could probably figure it out by searching, but is a laser cartridge just one of those dummies with a laser that people sometimes use to get eat their rifle scope close to zero?
 
I'm sure I could probably figure it out by searching, but is a laser cartridge just one of those dummies with a laser that people sometimes use to get eat their rifle scope close to zero?

The problem with laser trainers is condition bar habits. Stare at the target instead of the sights, anticipate the laser dot, chase tremors that happen after the trigger break.
 
The problem with laser trainers is condition bar habits. Stare at the target instead of the sights, anticipate the laser dot, chase tremors that happen after the trigger break.
Yes I can see it causing problems if not used properly.

Something I found myself doing (subconsciously) trying to shoot both eyes open is focusing on the target instead of the blade. I'm sure that made the repeatability of my sight picture very poor
 
Yes I can see it causing problems if not used properly.

Something I found myself doing (subconsciously) trying to shoot both eyes open is focusing on the target instead of the blade. I'm sure that made the repeatability of my sight picture very poor

Re- both eyes open.

Put glasses on out a piece of black tape over the left eye. Practice with both eyes open. After a few weeks, swap a piece of white tape over it. After a few weeks, swap for a few layers of clear tape over it. Slowly remove layers. After a month or two you should be able to shoot both eyes open.
 
I'm sure I could probably figure it out by searching, but is a laser cartridge just one of those dummies with a laser that people sometimes use to get eat their rifle scope close to zero?
Yeah. I have a Pink Rhino 9mm and it has worked well for thousands of firings.

Something like this:

 
Oh yeah. Have a pretty early and long road with M&P’s. If you like the platform, they are pretty solid. The only real issue they ever had was the 9mm guns shooting 6-8” groups at 25 yards.
I thought this was fixed with the newest Gen but could be wrong.
 
While dots do have an advantage here- Irons do not require front sight focus. Soft focus or full on target focus works just fine for the vast majority of shots. Quite a few top action competitors use and teach only target focus with irons.

The problem with laser trainers is condition bar habits. Stare at the target instead of the sights, anticipate the laser dot, chase tremors that happen after the trigger break.

Was thinking about your thoughts on the laser cartridge. These two views don't seem to square with each other. What am I missing?
 
Tangential to the thread, so I’m going for it…

Without arguing about which gun I should have in what cartridge…

CA graciously lets you carry concealed while hunting, anybody have a good CCW while hunting solution?

IWB excluded for comfort and usability with a pack.
 
Tangential to the thread, so I’m going for it…

Without arguing about which gun I should have in what cartridge…

CA graciously lets you carry concealed while hunting, anybody have a good CCW while hunting solution?

IWB excluded for comfort and usability with a pack.
A Sig P365 with a 12 round mag fits into the front pocket of a AGC Denali bino harness.
I have a Velcro “holster” that holds it vertically. Works pretty good.
 
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