Montana Rifle Co, Shoot2Hunt, and Rokslide Rifle

[DavidReed]

We proof test all guns, measure cocking piece travel during safety engagement, firing pin protrusion, set/measure trigger weight, coating mil thickness measured... ect. The design has been tested to and exceeds SAAMI/ANSI Z299.5 Abusive Mishandling Standards. We've done test firing at sub zero temps, and one test rifle ate 5 boxes of proof rounds with no measurable distortion when I broke it down. I've done intentional case head blowouts to ensure the action handles gas properly and protects the shooter. Some day, in my free time, I'm going to intentionally squib a barrel and try to blow an action up while filming with our high speed camera. If it still doesn't blow, I'll load some some rounds up with flash powder and just detonate it.

@Imac45acp

Are you measuring cocking piece travel as a matter of design tolerance, i.e. it meets spec, or ar you measuring if the cocking piece consistency has the same amount of travel through the three safety positions and after the firing pin is released to fire the gun and through the action of cocking the fire control mechanism?

 

[4th_point]

1) Yes, sort of on the collar. The interior barrel collar is abbreviated by both bolt raceways as opposed to just the extractor side lug. The first step of our receiver machining is punching a hole through Ø2" bar and broaching the bolt bore/raceways clear through. This gives us datums to index and fixture on for all remaining machining process. The shroud and bolt stop act in conjunction to block any gasses from injuring the shooter in the event of a catastrophic case failure.

Thanks, Ian.

A so-called H-collar, instead of a C-collar.

 

[Dobermann]

It’s fantastic. And maybe in the not too distant future there is a variation of it in a less expensive scope….

 

[solarshooter]

It’s fantastic. And maybe in the not too distant future there is a variation of it in a less expensive scope….

What scope/reticle is this?

 

[solarshooter]

A full value, right to left 8-12mph gusting wind at the rifle; and about half way to the coyote a full value left to right 8+ mph wind. They canceled each other out.

How did you know the wind was fully switched halfway downrange?

 

[mtnbound]

What scope/reticle is this?

Minox zp5 5-25x56 thlr-Pro.

 

[walk2112]

Minox zp5 5-25x56 thlr-Pro.

I think he’s referring to the mysterious future scope that Form mentioned

 

[walk2112]

It’s fantastic. And maybe in the not too distant future there is a variation of it in a less expensive scope….

Curiosity strikes me again… if you were to give an approximation (fully understood it’s a maybe) of what ‘not too distant future’ means, in terms of numbers and units of time, would you be willing to share?

Wondering if this future scope could be available around same time as this MRC/S2H collab rifle? Seem like they’d be a nice pairing

 

[IrkedCitizen]

I think he’s referring to the mysterious future scope that Form mentioned

Would you buy this scope?

Scope specs: FFP 3-12x40 to 3-12x44mm Consistently holds zero through 3-foot drops and 3,000 rounds of constant use. The reticle is specially designed for 25 to 600 yards, with bold outer posts and correct center aiming references. Zero Stop Low profile top turret. Capped windage. Large...

rokslide.com

Likely this

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Curiosity strikes me again… if you were to give an approximation (fully understood it’s a maybe) of what ‘not too distant future’ means, in terms of numbers and units of time, would you be willing to share?

Wondering if this future scope could be available around same time as this MRC/S2H collab rifle? Seem like they’d be a nice pairing

As someone who was about to buy one of the minox zp5 thlr, it's enough for me to hold off.

 

[Forestryguy]

Yes. Its not that Starbucks is “good”, it’s that everything else on the road sucks. I prefer quality French press above all else, though good Turkish coffee, pour overs, etc etc, are all fine choices. The key is that it is coffee- that means real cream and sugar. Black “coffee” isn’t coffee- it’s black bean water.

Finding good coffee while traveling is nigh impossible, so it’s Starbucks desert drink- one must slum with the peasants at times.

Only reason to go to McDonald's is that their coffee is better than Starbucks. It doesn't taste like a pile of burnt beans. Just have to bring along your own real cream and sugar.

It’s fantastic. And maybe in the not too distant future there is a variation of it in a less expensive scope….

Teasing like a Starbucks barista for a tip.

 

[Imac45acp]

This is great news. Always nice to have new options, if done right

Instead of asking a ton of questions...

1) What's the test procedure involve?

2) Can someone provide a design summary on function, robustness, and safety?

A little more on 2)
The design goal here was to make a modern version of the pre-64 M70. The combination of CRF, 3 pos shroud mounted safety, and bomb-proof simple trigger system is what helped earn it's moniker "The Rifleman's Rifle". That sounds like some slick bs marketing line, but its the truth. Our goal was take the soul and functionality of the original, and throw in tight tolerance machining and superior materials. Take the trigger and sear for example- they're A2 tool steel, wire EDM cut to a tolerance of .0005", polished, head treated to 56-58 Rc, polished again, and the trigger is titanium nitride coated for slickness and wear resistance. The gold tone is just a byproduct of the TiN plating. I may do some different tooling type coatings in the future, but marketing and sales like the color, so we kept it.

I mentioned before the robustness of the design and some of the torture tests, but a more detailed description off how the safety operates should be noted-
Shroud mounted safeties have one HUGE advantage over 90% of the other systems. When transitioning from fire to safe, the lever cams the cocking piece rearward off the sear, and directly blocks it from any forward movement. There is no way for the cocking piece/firing pin to drop with the safety engaged. The third, rearmost position also locks the bolt in the down position which is handy as hell in brush. Another fun feature this allows is a field strippable bolt with no tools. You just remove the bolt with it on safe, press the shroud lock with your thumb and unscrew the shroud assembly from the bolt. Very handy if the rifle has been dunked and you want to ensure the water is all out (freezing temps ect). Even if you forget to apply the safety before removing, it's simple to put the bolt on safe out of the gun.

Some follow-up question:
1) Why the 18” over 16” barrel? I love shorties.

2) Plans for any rimfire builds down the road?

No rim fire. I love my 22s, but it's just not worth it.

I'd be extremely interested to see the recoil dynamics of dangerous game cartridges and the Rokstock's geometry. Prediction: extremely effective.

I've wondered about this quite a bit before, actually. Here's why:

About 15 years ago I worked with a gun-fitter whose clients included national and international trap and skeet champions, but he made his bread and butter with fitting random club guys around the region. The first thing he always did was re-cut the butt to be perfectly 90-degree perpendicular to the bore.

I got him to explain in detail the reasons he adjusted the geometry the way he did with that particular cut, and it was all about recoil management. Butts that undercut, with the toe further forward than the heel, increase muzzle flip in direct proportion to the increased angle. It's also largely what is responsible for cheek bruising. The perfectly perpendicular bore/butt angle ended up being best for recoil managment and follow-up shots.

Fast-forward to a few years ago, and I came across someone's writing about really early theories of stock design on big-bore dangerous game guns, from the 19th century - and why they often have both severe undercuts on the butt, and the combs dropping so much below the bore axis. It seems the idea was that it was to "manage" the muzzle flip to intentionally make it go up - rather than straight back.

Given that the Rokstock has what appears to be a butt cut at perfectly 90-degrees to the bore axis, and that its heel is as high as it is above the bore line, I'll wager that it will be exceptional at helping manage muzzle flip with heavy big-bore cartridges.

Please let us know what you experience with that .375 H&H from standing position.

As of right now, we're not planning on doing a .375 RokStok gun. These will have traditional sporter style stocks... for now. I'm 99% sure @UM GM will be building himself one though!

Will it be possible to buy additional MRC prefit barrels in the same calibers and 18” length? It would be nice to snag an extra barrel or two or maybe an additional caliber.

It's quite possible. We haven't really discussed it internally yet. I'll happily provide the specs to anyone that wants to build them. UM has already done Form's test gun, so they've certainly got the capability.

I've never been to an SCI event before but since I have been looking for a nice 375 H&H rifle for several years and I have a good friend who lives just a couple blocks away from the event center, I will have to make a trip to see this one.

Maybe I'll like the rifle enough to order a couple more in different calibers to replace some of my other rifles.

I do have one question though, why did you decide to do a two piece integrated picatinny instead of a full length one? Maybe it's just me but the full length version would seem to allow for a better selection of modern optics given that many of them are quite a bit shorter than older ones, or maybe I'm overthinking that.

Sweet! You'll have to come by for sure!
We opted for the two piece pic rail because our rifles are primarily top loaders. When we machined the one piece protos, it was a pain in the a$$ to load. Side story- you wouldn't believe the amount of hate we got putting the pic rail on a 'classic rifle'. One critic referred to it as "an aesthetically disgusting cheese grater. Internally we started referring to it as the ADCG rail, and all got a laugh out of it. We'll be doing a classic style slick top for the classic guys, and anybody that just has to have a 20MOA rail.

@Imac45acp

Are you measuring cocking piece travel as a matter of design tolerance, i.e. it meets spec, or ar you measuring if the cocking piece consistency has the same amount of travel through the three safety positions and after the firing pin is released to fire the gun and through the action of cocking the fire control mechanism?

Measuring the cocking piece travel is gauge of consistency. As mentioned above, the safety lever's barrel cams the cocking piece to the rear off the sear when transitioning from fire to safe (no travel from safe1 to safe2 positions). It needs to move to fully disengage from the sear, but excessive movement translates to a safety that's very difficult to actuate. There are 6 components that locate the cocking piece's position relative to the safety when the rifle is in the cocked state. This location needs to be a .007 window for everything to work from gun to gun without fitting. We also measure the travel for cock on close. Again, we need a certain amount of travel, but excessive movement translates to crappy feeling as you're closing the bolt.

 

[Reburn]

As someone who was about to buy one of the minox zp5 thlr, it's enough for me to hold off.

If you have a gun that isnt weight sensitive then you wont regret the minox. I love mine. Its the bomb diggity.

 

[Formidilosus]

As someone who was about to buy one of the minox zp5 thlr, it's enough for me to hold off.

As a medium to long range scope, the ZP5 THLR is spectacular.

 

[Alpha Echo]

The third, rearmost position also locks the bolt in the down position which is handy as hell in brush. Another fun feature this allows is a field strippable bolt with no tools. You just remove the bolt with it on safe, press the shroud lock with your thumb and unscrew the shroud assembly from the bolt. Very handy if the rifle has been dunked and you want to ensure the water is all out (freezing temps ect). Even if you forget to apply the safety before removing, it's simple to put the bolt on safe out of the gun.

Will you be able to fully remove the bolt even on a long action with it in a Rokstock?

 

[Bluumoon]

A little more on 2)
The design goal here was to make a modern version of the pre-64 M70. The combination of CRF, 3 pos shroud mounted safety, and bomb-proof simple trigger system is what helped earn it's moniker "The Rifleman's Rifle". That sounds like some slick bs marketing line, but its the truth. Our goal was take the soul and functionality of the original, and throw in tight tolerance machining and superior materials. Take the trigger and sear for example- they're A2 tool steel, wire EDM cut to a tolerance of .0005", polished, head treated to 56-58 Rc, polished again, and the trigger is titanium nitride coated for slickness and wear resistance. The gold tone is just a byproduct of the TiN plating. I may do some different tooling type coatings in the future, but marketing and sales like the color, so we kept it.

I mentioned before the robustness of the design and some of the torture tests, but a more detailed description off how the safety operates should be noted-
Shroud mounted safeties have one HUGE advantage over 90% of the other systems. When transitioning from fire to safe, the lever cams the cocking piece rearward off the sear, and directly blocks it from any forward movement. There is no way for the cocking piece/firing pin to drop with the safety engaged. The third, rearmost position also locks the bolt in the down position which is handy as hell in brush. Another fun feature this allows is a field strippable bolt with no tools. You just remove the bolt with it on safe, press the shroud lock with your thumb and unscrew the shroud assembly from the bolt. Very handy if the rifle has been dunked and you want to ensure the water is all out (freezing temps ect). Even if you forget to apply the safety before removing, it's simple to put the bolt on safe out of the gun.


No rim fire. I love my 22s, but it's just not worth it.


As of right now, we're not planning on doing a .375 RokStok gun. These will have traditional sporter style stocks... for now. I'm 99% sure @UM GM will be building himself one though!


It's quite possible. We haven't really discussed it internally yet. I'll happily provide the specs to anyone that wants to build them. UM has already done Form's test gun, so they've certainly got the capability.


Sweet! You'll have to come by for sure!
We opted for the two piece pic rail because our rifles are primarily top loaders. When we machined the one piece protos, it was a pain in the a$$ to load. Side story- you wouldn't believe the amount of hate we got putting the pic rail on a 'classic rifle'. One critic referred to it as "an aesthetically disgusting cheese grater. Internally we started referring to it as the ADCG rail, and all got a laugh out of it. We'll be doing a classic style slick top for the classic guys, and anybody that just has to have a 20MOA rail.

Measuring the cocking piece travel is gauge of consistency. As mentioned above, the safety lever's barrel cams the cocking piece to the rear off the sear when transitioning from fire to safe (no travel from safe1 to safe2 positions). It needs to move to fully disengage from the sear, but excessive movement translates to a safety that's very difficult to actuate. There are 6 components that locate the cocking piece's position relative to the safety when the rifle is in the cocked state. This location needs to be a .007 window for everything to work from gun to gun without fitting. We also measure the travel for cock on close. Again, we need a certain amount of travel, but excessive movement translates to crappy feeling as you're closing the bolt.

The ability to order an additional barrel (especially if kept reasonable $) that has been fitted and tested to the rifle would be slick and another feather in your cap to separate you from the industry. I’d likely order a 6cm and 22cm, or just double up on the 6cm.

 

[Dobermann]

As someone who was about to buy one of the minox zp5 thlr, it's enough for me to hold off.

My guess is that there will different use cases for the ZP5 vs the 'Would you buy this scope' / RS / S2H / Form etc scope - that one will have a lower magnification, smaller objective, and less weight.

I'm also guessing that the THLR ZP5 won't be around forever - so if you're thinking about one, could be worth picking it up. (I grabbed two on close-out a couple of years ago.)

And if you end up not liking it / can have all of your needs met by the upcoming scope, the THLR ZP5 should readily sell here ... of few of us really, really, really, like it.

@Reburn: what's your take? Do you want to expand on his earlier post regarding all this / give @Wyo_hntr a better case to join the club? ...

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

My guess is that there will different use cases for the ZP5 vs the 'Would you buy this scope' / RS / S2H / Form etc scope - that one will have a lower magnification, smaller objective, and less weight.

I'm also guessing that the THLR ZP5 won't be around forever - so if you're thinking about one, could be worth picking it up. (I grabbed two on close-out a couple of years ago.)

And if you end up not liking it / can have all of your needs met by the upcoming scope, the THLR ZP5 should readily sell here ... of few of us really, really, really, like it.

@Reburn: what's your take? Do you want to expand on his earlier post regarding all this / give @Wyo_hntr a better case to join the club? ...

He should join the club haha. Mine is on Sako and it’s one of my favorite all time scopes.

 

[Dobermann]

He should join the club haha. Mine is on Sako and it’s one of my favorite all time scopes.

What's your cartridge and use case? (Might help @Wyo_hntr with scenario / build planning ...)

 

[fwafwow]

What's your cartridge and use case? (Might help @Wyo_hntr with scenario / build planning ...)

Please don’t do that in this thread, because I’m following this thread. I don’t want to hear about how good it is, as I don’t need to spend any more money.