Money or Happiness

[Billinsd]

Money can buy a lot of good times!!! Just saying…

 

[ddowning]

Listen to this. Then complete it. Pay particular attention to the fact that it is not a diet, an exercise program, or a challenge. It is a tool to sharpen your mental toughness and perspective. It literally changed my life. Not just parts of it, all of it. I also still have the same job, marriage, house, hobbies, etc as before I knew anything about it.

Money or happiness??? BOTH!!! Anyone who tells you you have to choose is a loser. It sounds like you have the world by the balls. You seem to make enough money to be happy with the amount, and you do it in only 50 hrs a week!!! 50 hours a week is NOTHING!!! I'm screwing around on rokslide at lunch on a Friday, and I have over 50 hours of work in already this week, and it has been a very slow and easy week. I do not say this as a brag. I am trying to create perspective. Also, this week, I have peppered a volleyball with my wife and 2 daughters for multiple hours, played countless games of UNO and Farkle(a dice game we play as a family), and a game of clue. We have eaten supper as a family every night this week. We have called raccoons, and my wife has coached multiple volleyball practices (she helps me run the company and is absolutely critical to its success.) I also helped coach at 1 volleyball practice. For myself I have done some reloading and some shooting. We don't make insane money, but we make more than many of our friends, and we are improving our income all the time. The past 2 years we have traveled and hunted and shot prs and nrl matches together as a family and we spend insane amounts of time doing fun things we never did when I saw everything as a trade-off.

I used to feel the same way as you. I had a perspective problem. I thought I had to work 100 hour weeks and build a $10m business in 5 years. My family suffered as a result. The reality is we all have a certain level of capability. I backed off a little on the work, but we are still growing, just a little slower. I put the pedal to the metal on diet, started doing something about fitness, (part of my job is very active, so I never noticed it was a problem), and started focusing on raising the toughest, smartest, most capable kids I knew how to raise. My marriage and relationships with my kids are infinity better. I had no clue how much time I was wasting and how much potential I was squandering.

Control every aspect of your life you have control over. This includes diet, exercise, learning, sleep habits, your emotional contributions to relationships, and numerous other things. Also, realize that balance isn't a daily schedule of work vs play. Sometimes life will kick you while your down and you will have to grind. Other times things will be easier and you will have more leisure time. It is not an everyday balance, but a balance over the course of your life. Practice gratitude and learn that fulfillment is the result of pursuing your potential in all areas of life while simultaneously expanding it. Yes, this means you will never truly reach your potential because it expands before you reach it. Once you stop feeling as though you are wasting life, and find a purpose, gratitude and motivation are less difficult. Notice I did not say easy.

It is true that everything is a trade-off. The more time you spend at your job, the less you can spend in a treestand or on a mountain. If you are telling your situation like it is, you have it really good. You just need to develop a different perspective, and focus on full utilization of the time spent on the couch or in the bed. Hell, I spend most of my drive time talking to my wife on the phone. This has improved our relationship tremendously and is simply a different utilization of the commute than listening to the radio.

You have a great life. You have plenty of time. It was extremely hard for me to hear this and took over a decade for me to do something about it. You need to mentally Unf**k yourself. I posted the best tool I have found for it at the top of my response. You have all the tools to be extremely financially successful while still spending a lot of time enjoying life.

Go build the life you desire to have. No one except you can do it.

 

[Kilboars]

Money or happiness?
Yes.


Hopefully you’ve been socking some money away from your current job into investments.
Start a side gig in the evenings and weekends that will duplicate your current job income and then move forward,

There’s a ton of baby boomers, retiring, and walking away from their businesses because they can’t find anyone to take over their companies.
Could be another great angle to start looking.

 

[mi650]

Unpopular opinion:

I am not working to "set up my kids". My kids are on their own. I will help them, but I am not saving tens of thousands of dollars for them to go to college. They can live with me on and off through college, I will help them with expenses (cell phones, car stuff, few bucks here and there to help them survive, etc) but I am not willing to pay for their college.

I didn't have help outside of what I mentioned above, and feel it molded me into someone who works hard and works for and appreciate what they have. I came from nothing, and my kids have MUCH more growing up than I ever dreamed of already.

(snip)

Interesting line of thought. Mine is the opposite.

I grew up piss-poor, meaning section 8 apartment complex and putting water in a bowl of cereal because there was no milk poor. There were times we didn't have the cereal.

I say that to illustrate why I paid for my kids' college, up to their bachelors. (I paid for my own college as well, every nickel aside from the GI Bill. Paid off my loans, too.) My wife and I made a deal with our kids; they take care of school & their grades, we'd take care of everything else. They each graduated HS as co-valedictorian and summa cum laude from EMU. So far, my son has gotten his masters from Penn State in a year and 1/2, paid for it himself, and is considering a Ph.D. My daughter hasn't decided yet if she's going to go any further.

I guess my point is, after growing up as poor as I did, I wanted a better life for my kids. (My wife grew up rather poor too, but had it better a little than I did.) And entirely thru our own efforts, we were able to provide it for them. Thru their efforts, and the deal we made with them, they held up their end of the bargain.

 

[Sbird2019]

Money is important, there is no denying it. But what truly matters is the love that your wife and kids feel and who shows up at the end of the day / weekend. If taking a pay cut means that you’re a more fulfilled and satisfied husband and father, that will have far reaching benefits in your family and in your marriage. When your job as a husband and father is to pour out your cup into others, the most important thing is to ensure that your cup is as full as possible so that you have more to give to your family. Millionaires and billionaires are often rich, but not wealthy. Middle class families are often wealthy, but not rich. People are incredibly resilient when it comes to financial survival, but I think the greatest indicator regarding the happiness of your wife and kids is a dad who gave them the world in love, rather than material possessions

 

[Marbles]

I have been with the same company for 18 years and make a very good salary. A salary that I could not replicate if I decided to leave the company. I drive a desk for 50 hours a week.
The problem I've been having for the past couple years is I just can't get myself "motivated" to get going at work. I'm not enjoying working with the coworkers, not enjoying the industry anymore, and not really enjoying who I am at work.
If i was single or childless this debate might be easier, but my wife and i have 2 kids under 4 years old. At this point we could cover college tuition for the both of them. If i worked this job for another 20 years we could essentially set them up for life.

Money and being set up for life is not what produces happy or healthy adults from children.

The feeling comes and goes but I'm constantly day dreaming about quitting this to pursue a more meaningful career, that would result in a significantly lower income, that i imagine would be more fulfilling but that's not guaranteed either.
In my mind i can justify staying for the money and my families financial future at the expense of my happiness (my happiness at work, outside of that I love life, but work is a big part of life). But I can also justify leaving knowing that my family will still be comfortable and I could potentially be a better father and husband.
I realize this is a good predicament to be in. Never gotten anyone's thoughts on this

Being a better father and husband trumps money. I grew up dirt poor in the Ozarks, 5 kids in a single wide trailer, and eat a whole lot of beans and rice because it was cheap. I had great parents though, and that made the difference.

 

[49ereric]

Interesting line of thought. Mine is the opposite.

I grew up piss-poor, meaning section 8 apartment complex and putting water in a bowl of cereal because there was no milk poor. There were times we didn't have the cereal.

I say that to illustrate why I paid for my kids' college, up to their bachelors. (I paid for my own college as well, every nickel aside from the GI Bill. Paid off my loans, too.) My wife and I made a deal with our kids; they take care of school & their grades, we'd take care of everything else. They each graduated HS as co-valedictorian and summa cum laude from EMU. So far, my son has gotten his masters from Penn State in a year and 1/2, paid for it himself, and is considering a Ph.D. My daughter hasn't decided yet if she's going to go any further.

I guess my point is, after growing up as poor as I did, I wanted a better life for my kids. (My wife grew up rather poor too, but had it better a little than I did.) And entirely thru our own efforts, we were able to provide it for them. Thru their efforts, and the deal we made with them, they held up their end of the bargain.

^^^^ well done! I agree 100%!

 

[swampfoxsc]

Read this wisdom from Morgan Housel on moving the goal post (resetting expectations) - https://collabfund.com/blog/goalpost/

 

[TheViking]

Interesting line of thought. Mine is the opposite.

I grew up piss-poor, meaning section 8 apartment complex and putting water in a bowl of cereal because there was no milk poor. There were times we didn't have the cereal.

I say that to illustrate why I paid for my kids' college, up to their bachelors. (I paid for my own college as well, every nickel aside from the GI Bill. Paid off my loans, too.) My wife and I made a deal with our kids; they take care of school & their grades, we'd take care of everything else. They each graduated HS as co-valedictorian and summa cum laude from EMU. So far, my son has gotten his masters from Penn State in a year and 1/2, paid for it himself, and is considering a Ph.D. My daughter hasn't decided yet if she's going to go any further.

I guess my point is, after growing up as poor as I did, I wanted a better life for my kids. (My wife grew up rather poor too, but had it better a little than I did.) And entirely thru our own efforts, we were able to provide it for them. Thru their efforts, and the deal we made with them, they held up their end of the bargain.

I don't think our line of thinking is actually that far off, minus paying for college. My kids have a GREAT life. And I give them that because the same as you - I don't want them growing up how I did, but I want them to learn a good work ethic and not expect handouts. They have everything they need (plus some), we go on vacations, they have phones, nice things, etc. When the oldest turned 16 we bought her a car, pay the insurance and just make her pay for her own gas. We require her to have some sort of part time job to show some responsibility and gain some work ethic. We also require them to have good grades : A's and B's only. She will be graduating this spring with a 4.3 GPA (AP classes are on a 5.0 scale). She has been accepted to the few schools she applied for, and offered about a 50% scholarship from the school as well. She hasn't even applied for the secondary scholarships yet. I am guessing she will have at least 75% of her college paid for from scholarships. She works hard, and has great grades. She's a good kid by nature, but we also set high expectations for her and discussed life past High School many, many times.

The younger one...we'll see how he turns out. He's smart as hell, just like his older sister, but he likes to f**k off a lot in school and has an arrogant little attitude. That said, he still has all A's and B's.

I'm not disagreeing with you and how you want to raise your kids, I think that's fantastic. I just choose to not pay for post high school schooling. I will 100% support them when they need it, but I want them to earn it. I will also not let them get into $150k worth of shitty debt either. I think there's a trade off when it comes to college. Are you going to go to the most expensive school to get a Liberal Arts degree? Waste of money. Can you go to a community college for a year or two, save money, work part time and then finish a degree somewhere else? Can you get into a trade/apprenticeship? So many options out here. College isn't for everyone, and certainly isn't necessary to make a damn good living. I know many guys that never stepped foot on a college campus and are EXTREMELY successful.

 

[mi650]

I don't think our line of thinking is actually that far off, minus paying for college. My kids have a GREAT life. And I give them that because the same as you - I don't want them growing up how I did, but I want them to learn a good work ethic and not expect handouts. They have everything they need (plus some), we go on vacations, they have phones, nice things, etc. When the oldest turned 16 we bought her a car, pay the insurance and just make her pay for her own gas. We require her to have some sort of part time job to show some responsibility and gain some work ethic. We also require them to have good grades : A's and B's only. She will be graduating this spring with a 4.3 GPA (AP classes are on a 5.0 scale). She has been accepted to the few schools she applied for, and offered about a 50% scholarship from the school as well. She hasn't even applied for the secondary scholarships yet. I am guessing she will have at least 75% of her college paid for from scholarships. She works hard, and has great grades. She's a good kid by nature, but we also set high expectations for her and discussed life past High School many, many times.

The younger one...we'll see how he turns out. He's smart as hell, just like his older sister, but he likes to f**k off a lot in school and has an arrogant little attitude. That said, he still has all A's and B's.

I'm not disagreeing with you and how you want to raise your kids, I think that's fantastic. I just choose to not pay for post high school schooling. I will 100% support them when they need it, but I want them to earn it. I will also not let them get into $150k worth of shitty debt either. I think there's a trade off when it comes to college. Are you going to go to the most expensive school to get a Liberal Arts degree? Waste of money. Can you go to a community college for a year or two, save money, work part time and then finish a degree somewhere else? Can you get into a trade/apprenticeship? So many options out here. College isn't for everyone, and certainly isn't necessary to make a damn good living. I know many guys that never stepped foot on a college campus and are EXTREMELY successful.

No, we aren't all that far off. And I agree 100%, I would not have paid for a garbage degree. 1 thing I kick myself for is not putting my foot down and making them go to Hillsdale College. Not that Eastern Michigan is a bad school, but Hillsdale is better, and they would not have had to fight off the liberal indoctrination.

And oh yeah, very familiar with AP classes, that's mostly what they took. My son, for example, was a math major and took AP Calc. 2 in HS. Near the end of his 1st semester of college, there was an awards ceremony. The dean of the math dept. was pretty impressed by that and gave him an extra scholarship because of it. Said he'd never had a student who'd taken Calc. 2 in HS before.

 

[TFrank]

Brings up a thought. How many people would kill to have your job and you are dreaming about some other job. While those people at the job you want are thinking of doing something else. Guess this is a convoluted way of saying what was already said with “grass isn’t greener.

I commented because I feel the same way about my job often. My priority is my family and I find my happiness outside of work.

Although I do have to say I work with good people so that helps.

 

[ddowning]

Money is important, there is no denying it. But what truly matters is the love that your wife and kids feel and who shows up at the end of the day / weekend. If taking a pay cut means that you’re a more fulfilled and satisfied husband and father, that will have far reaching benefits in your family and in your marriage. When your job as a husband and father is to pour out your cup into others, the most important thing is to ensure that your cup is as full as possible so that you have more to give to your family. Millionaires and billionaires are often rich, but not wealthy. Middle class families are often wealthy, but not rich. People are incredibly resilient when it comes to financial survival, but I think the greatest indicator regarding the happiness of your wife and kids is a dad who gave them the world in love, rather than material possessions

I couldn't agree more. Setting your kids up doesn't mean handing them enough money that they never have to work or worry. It means you teach them the skills, morals/ethos to go create a great life for themselves. If part of that is helping them financially at certain points, then so be it.

Giving them a fortune will only make it more difficult for them to find purpose and be productive in life and society. Then, even if they are very motivated, and productive, no matter what they achieve, they will constantly be questioned by others if it was them or you. Ultimately, most of those people begin to question themselves, leading to a lower level of fulfillment and accomplishment.

Wanting your kids to have a better life than you is the way. You have to be careful how you think about it. I want my kids to be better than me in every way. I had a pretty good life growing up. Most of the times when I was challenged, I chose to be challenged. People need to push themselves and demand to be challenged in order to be great. Make sure you teach your kids to love a challenge and rise to conquer it. You conquering challenges for them will only make them weak, and leave them lacking a sense of purpose and accomplishment. They will never strive to reach their potential, or expand it.

 

[ddowning]

I don't think our line of thinking is actually that far off, minus paying for college. My kids have a GREAT life. And I give them that because the same as you - I don't want them growing up how I did, but I want them to learn a good work ethic and not expect handouts. They have everything they need (plus some), we go on vacations, they have phones, nice things, etc. When the oldest turned 16 we bought her a car, pay the insurance and just make her pay for her own gas. We require her to have some sort of part time job to show some responsibility and gain some work ethic. We also require them to have good grades : A's and B's only. She will be graduating this spring with a 4.3 GPA (AP classes are on a 5.0 scale). She has been accepted to the few schools she applied for, and offered about a 50% scholarship from the school as well. She hasn't even applied for the secondary scholarships yet. I am guessing she will have at least 75% of her college paid for from scholarships. She works hard, and has great grades. She's a good kid by nature, but we also set high expectations for her and discussed life past High School many, many times.

The younger one...we'll see how he turns out. He's smart as hell, just like his older sister, but he likes to f**k off a lot in school and has an arrogant little attitude. That said, he still has all A's and B's.

Your son sounds like a young me. He is bored and everything that is supposed to challenge him is easy as hell. At some point in life, I was finally challenged. It was hard as hell, and I had never learned to really apply myself to things that weren't "fun". I spent 7 years coasting in a low paying job because I was afraid of failure. Looking back, I wasn't afraid of failure. I was afraid of the effort I was going to have to give to be successful. I had only ever applied that kind of effort to shooting, which I loved. Work, up to that point, had been easy to excel at, school as well. Eventually I manned up and started a business. I'm still struggling to find the success I found in school, and the technical aspects of my career, in marketing, sales, and leadership. I have come to really enjoy that struggle. Had someone shown me the rewards that would come from it, and how to stay the course, I would be 7 years further right now. Find something to challenge the hell out of him and get him comfortable with failing, learning from failure, and applying what he learned to create growth. When everything comes so easily, as good grades do for him, failure is a rare and crushing feeling (it was for me anyway). Until I got used to the fact that failure was normal, I always avoided situations with a likelihood of failure and therefore growth. He sounds like he is so smart and talented that he can accomplish what is expected with very little effort. That made me lazy, and I was not used to applying max effort. When I reached a point were even max effort resulted in failure, and I had to learn and try again, it was a rude awakening.

I'm not disagreeing with you and how you want to raise your kids, I think that's fantastic. I just choose to not pay for post high school schooling. I will 100% support them when they need it, but I want them to earn it. I will also not let them get into $150k worth of shitty debt either. I think there's a trade off when it comes to college. Are you going to go to the most expensive school to get a Liberal Arts degree? Waste of money. Can you go to a community college for a year or two, save money, work part time and then finish a degree somewhere else? Can you get into a trade/apprenticeship? So many options out here. College isn't for everyone, and certainly isn't necessary to make a damn good living. I know many guys that never stepped foot on a college campus and are EXTREMELY successful.

I had a good scholarship, but went to a private school. Between my wife's and my student loans, they were more than our mortgage (monthly payment). I ended up in the trades anyway. Now my wife and I run a couple small construction businesses. We don't make crazy money, but we make a comfortable living. The only way I will encourage my kids to go to college is if it is absolutely required for the occupation they are pursuing.

 

[hereinaz]

Lots of good advice. Like everything, it depends on your specific situation.

Tune up your mental health?

My life has been filled with lots of stressful health issues with my wife and daughter that leads to extremely high divorce rates. My profession is stressful, like second highest suicide rate.

I powered through for decades, and wish I would have taken care of my mental health. I thought I could pull myself up by my bootstraps—all the time. It leads to burnout and a dad that loses love of life.

All the money in the world won’t help your kids if they don’t get an involved dad. If the malaise from work infects your home life, something should change.

Take a realistic look at your mental health. Maybe s tune up can get you the perspective to get focus back in your work. Or, give you perspective about the need for change in your life.

You have the money for it.

 

[missjordan]

Sometimes choosing to stay stuck keeps you from searching for other opportunities. I don’t think it hurts to look but a move needs to be calculated and well thought out. You never know what you might find that works out better than you ever could imagine.

I get it being in a job that you have no passion for is hard. If you spend over a 1/3 of your day or more there you definitely deserve to find something that aligns with your core values.


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[pacoalcracker]

Life is too short to go to a job that you hate and coworkers you don't like every day. Find something else to do that would inspire you to work at a high level of productivity and satisfaction, regardless of matching pay or not. You are doing yourself, the coworkers and the company justice. Alternatively, you could stay and be miserable and stressed out and end up at the local cardiac center..or in the ground. How would your young family fare out then? There are literally thousands of different kinds of jobs that pay very good money and I'm sure you have talents that are transferable to other types of work. Don't be the gerbil on the wheel. Don't worry about your kids college education..they will be just fine with or without your financial input. Don't worry about your wife, she will understand and be supportive. Move on.

 

[IDVortex]

Well, both. I want a job/career that'll make me not hate my life, but to where my wife doesn't need to work, where we can go on a vacation about every 3-5 years. Not living paycheck to paycheck, but not giving up my life or family time. Which is why I'm looking into a full career change. I'd also would be willing to make less, live a much more simpler life style if it meant my life was better, my relationship with my wife was better, and we were growing together. No job will be there for you when you're retires, your wife is though.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Misery loves company, very evident in this thread. Don't listen to people telling you to suck it up and work a job you hate because of money. Do something you love, and most importantly love and be there every day for your family. When you're on your death bed you wont be wishing you worked anthoner day harder at that desk job you hate.

 

[RCB]

It is quite possible that a few years after quitting this job and finding another you like better, you will again be in this same predicament. I.e. bored, unmotivated, with a grass-is-greener perspective.

That’s not to say one should never take risks and try something new. But try to recognize whether your current apathy is really the result of the job or whether it’s an internal problem that will arise again later.

 

[WRO]

I hated my last job, the new one seems much better. Work sucks, but a change is good at least once a decade. I bet you’d be surprised what competing offers might bring.


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