Mechanical vs Fixed - different perspective

[elkyinzer]

If they felt the need to justify/defend the use of mechanicals on a podcast isn't that saying a lot in itself? It does to me anyway.

My big issue with mechanicals is that a lot of super shitty archers and bowhunters use them to cover up tuning issues/poor arrow flight. A porpoising arrow is trouble whether you're using a sharpened rock or a mech with a half dozen hinges. And if the wind is gusting 30 mph, you should probably think about stalking closer than 80 yards or just sticking with boomsticks.

 

[Brendan]

If they felt the need to justify/defend the use of mechanicals on a podcast isn't that saying a lot in itself? It does to me anyway.

My big issue with mechanicals is that a lot of super shitty archers and bowhunters use them to cover up tuning issues/poor arrow flight. A porpoising arrow is trouble whether you're using a sharpened rock or a mech with a half dozen hinges. And if the wind is gusting 30 mph, you should probably think about stalking closer than 80 yards or just sticking with boomsticks.

I don't think they felt the need to justify it as much as they get asked about it all the time from listeners. To your latter point - they basically say exactly that when they cover it, but they'd rather have that than a novice shoot an Elk in the ass when they screw on a fixed blade and don't test it.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Good podcast.

 

[307]

I don't think Tim, nor anyone here is suggesting that a mechanical is a substitute for having a well tuned archery system, both shooter and his equipment. That's a red herring argument.

I believe his point is that even the best in the world, Mike “Mr. Perfect” Schloesser or Levi Morgan, with a bow tuned by God himself, are going to be better off with the forgiveness of a mechanical in hunting conditions, accepting the slim chance of mechanical failure, but acknowledging the realities of launching arrows in uncertain/challenging conditions is really darn hard and you likely won't be on your best form.

I can see the arguments either way, but there aren't a lot of people walking around with a more well developed opinion than Tim Gillingham.

 

[5MilesBack]

My big issue with mechanicals is that a lot of super shitty archers and bowhunters use them to cover up tuning issues/poor arrow flight.

So let's get this straight........you have a problem with a BH, because of some other shooter's lack of tuning????? That's like having a problem with a bullet, because someone loaded them in backwards.

 

[Muley15]

The point of the podcast for me has nothing to do with the age old argument about fixed vs mechanical or how about mechanicals "could" fail or how fixed blades out penetrate mechanicals. What I took from it was that while those are all viable points that continually get made, the uncontrollable factor of weather conditions, adrenaline, fatigue, shot positions, etc are probably a bigger factor to worry about and need to be taken seriously. All those attributes play in favor of a mechanical. Im not saying that everyone should shoot a mechanical but if you are generating around 75lbs or more of KE then it is a good option. Penetrating thin skin gamed animals like mule deer and whitetail shouldn't be an issue.

Yesterday after work i decided to shoot in the wind. We had 30-60mph winds yesterday and I figured I could probably get a good idea on this at 40 yards. I was able to shoot against my house where the wind was not really affecting me. The only mechanical that I have is NAP spitfires as I have only hunted with fixed blades in the past. What I found was at 40 yards they drifted about 1-2". Whereas my Exodus, slick trick mags, ramcats and stingers were anywhere from 2-6". For what its worth out of the fixed blades, the ram cats with out a doubt performed the best in the wind which is also my least favorite fixed blade out of the bunch.

 

[elkyinzer]

So let's get this straight........you have a problem with a BH, because of some other shooter's lack of tuning????? That's like having a problem with a bullet, because someone loaded them in backwards.

Not a good analogy at all, but anyway. I can't really say I have a problem with mechanicals overall and admit they do have some redeeming qualities, just have a problem with that particular scenario which I believe is fairly common. Have a problem with Outdoor Channel tools celebrating 3" of penetration on a whitetail chest cavity. Have a problem with the sensationalized marketing of the broadhead industry that seems to apply to mechs in particular. I know Aron has a ton of experience and his reasoning for using them is solid, but he's not a deity or anything and may well change his tune some day. I use fixed blades and will continue to, but I applaud Aron for advocating mechs for logical reasons and not just pimping himself out to rage type hyperbole.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I haven't seen anything that would make me want to shoot a mechanical broadhead. I don't care how many podcasts are produced. I've seen enough through my own experience to know that what I'm doing is working. Practicing shooting your bow in non hunting situations is not doing you much good. I don't care how high of a score I make at the local club shoots. If you're hunting in the mountains, practice in the mountains. If you're hunting from a treestand, practice in a treestand. About 40 or 50 yards is as far as I care to shoot an animal with my bow, regardless of the broadhead. Getting close to my quarry is why I took up bowhunting in the first place.

 

[jmez]

My experience shooting in heavy wind. If it is blowing hard enough to make an appreciable difference in your impact point with different broadheads, you ability to hold the bow still and control the pin float, esp at long distances, is far more of a limiting factor than the profile of your arrow or BH.

 

[elkguide]

No wonder the Native Americans got wiped out........................


they didn't have mechanical broadheads!

 

[Muley15]

So if your shooting a fixed blade and the wind is blowing 30-50 then you should probably not go hunting then? If I am getting 6" of drift with a fixed blade in a crosswind at 40yds at my house that could translate to 12" in the field. For me that is not acceptable or ethical. If I can minimize that to 2-4" of drift in a hunting situation with a mechanical it is worth it. Worst case scenario is you carry a few mechanicals in your pack if that situation arises. I also think the problem with penetration is that mechanicals have gotten too big. It really comes down to physics. A 2" cutting surface is not going to penetrate as far as a 1" cutting surface. I do think there is a happy medium though with the mechanicals that are i the 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" cutting range like the Grim Reaper fatal steal, kill zone low ke or hypo +p

 

[jmez]

I didn't say that. I said the ability to hold your bow still and on target, especially at longer distances where pin float is greatly magnified and where and inch of movement at the sight is going to change your point of impact about 7 or 8 inches downrange is far more a limiting factor or accuracy than a mech vs a fixed blade.

I won't speak for anyone else. If I was exposed to a 50mph wind and I was going to shoot at an animal it would have to be pretty damn close to even consider taking the shot. At the distance I would shoot in that kind of wind a low profile head wouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[jmez]

And you have already stated that you were standing beside your house where the wind was not affecting you. As I said, those kinds of winds, when you are actually standing in them, not beside your house are not conducive to any type of accuracy no mattter the profile of your BH.

 

[Muley15]

And you have already stated that you were standing beside your house where the wind was not affecting you. As I said, those kinds of winds, when you are actually standing in them, not beside your house are not conducive to any type of accuracy no mattter the profile of your BH.

I agree but I did that test just to see what difference there would be in the equipment alone.

 

[5MilesBack]

I agree but I did that test just to see what difference there would be in the equipment alone.

As you should.......otherwise there are two variables in the equation and therefore impossible to tell how much of the inaccuracy is attributable to each variable.

 

[TheTone]

No one is forcing anyone to take long range shots or in high enough winds you don't know where you're arrow is going to end up.

 

[Muley15]

All I am saying is that there is no question that mechanicals will provide better accuracy in the wind at longer ranges. Why wouldnt you hunt with something that will provide you the best accuracy in certain situations? Isn't hunting ethically all about shot placement? If your a tree stand hunter or don't shoot past 40 yards then don't even bother to look into this thread. Better accuracy and forgiveness at 40+ yards in hunting situations trumps any advantage of a fixed blade. If you have the confidence and ability to guess what the wind will do to your arrow then kudos to you. Guessing isn't guaranteed either. For most hunters, this doesn't happen. Even if the wind is only 10-20 you still have to calculate wind drift with a fixed blade where you don't really need to do that with a mechanical.

 

[Beendare]

My experience shooting in heavy wind. If it is blowing hard enough to make an appreciable difference in your impact point with different broadheads, you ability to hold the bow still and control the pin float, esp at long distances, is far more of a limiting factor than the profile of your arrow or BH.

^^ Good point.

Sure the low profile mech heads will have a slight advantage with less wind drift. I've found fletch or Mezs' point above to be more of a factor.

Contrary to 5 miles [very funny] comment...there are a lot of guys shooting mech heads to get around tuning....or because they want to shoot very long shots. Cool, no problem....but neither one of those is a factor I use for consideration.

 

[Muley15]

Ok lets break this down in simple terms given this scenario.

Joe Blow goes on a few western hunts per year and has a perfectly tuned bow that generates 80lb of KE. His bow will fly fixed blades and mechanicals right with his field points. Joe Blow practices a lot but may not know how to accurately guess wind drift regardless if its 10 or 20mph. Joe Blow only hunts mule deer and antelope and wants to make sure he is as accurate as possible past 40 yards not knowing what elements he will encounter. His go to fixed blade is a slick trick and his go to mechanical is a 1 1/2 cut on contact mechanical.


I don't want to hear about poorly tuned bows attributing to why guys shoot mechanicals, mechanicals not opening or lack of penetration. Given the scenario above none of those are logical.

 

[5MilesBack]

Contrary to 5 miles [very funny] comment...there are a lot of guys shooting mech heads to get around tuning....or because they want to shoot very long shots. Cool, no problem....but neither one of those is a factor I use for consideration.

Funny comment??

I would never use what someone else does or doesn't do in my consideration of what I do. Nor would I take an 80 yard shot in the heavy wind when the bow is being tossed around as much as the fixed blade headed arrow. But this year I took a 30 yard shot in good conditions and hit exactly where I was aiming.....I was hugging the > on a slightly quartering to me shot. However, if that arrow had for whatever reason been blown 2" right by the wind, or I torqued the bow to make it hit 2" further right, or my 3rd axis had been off to make it hit 2" further right (I was shooting angled up and across a hill), that arrow would have hammered the knuckle and would have gotten no penetration.

So you don't have to be shooting at 80 yards for even just a tiny bit of error (regardless of the cause) to ruin a hunt. A mechanical may or may not correct those issues........every situation is different. But I've also barely nicked branches on shots before with fixed heads that sent the arrow way off course. Would a swept back unopened mechanical clear those branches? Who knows........but maybe.