Maven RS1.2 2.5-15x44 new model

[clperry]

So are you gonna sell that swfa 3-15?

If the maven proves to be reliable over extended use, yes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[4th_point]

Waiting on the sidelines with great expectations…however I’m not going to jump in based on a sample size of three.

With the Trijicons, Form had mentioned he had seen quite a few of them and they “behaved as one would expect a scope to behave”.

Maven doesn’t have that track record; so I’ll wait for a larger sample size.

I think that is a sound strategy. Just a handful of samples, fairly light impacts, not enough recoil cycles or magnitude, and limited transport portion. Plus lack of track record. And sorry, but the hype is a little fishy too but I know some people might just be super duper excited. Plus some inside information?

We need the early adopters, as they will help perform the final validation and possibly provide limited field data to the reseller and maybe OEM. Sad but true - "The customer does the final testing". The anecdotal reports are hard to classify, but still add value to consumer confidence. The more the better. As long as the source is reputable and we know the assumptions and conditions, right?

This Maven appears to be the same base model, from the same OEM, as the Tract as well? Not sure that Maven or Tract have the technical expertise in-house to speak authoritatively on this topic to begin with, so they are relying on their outsourced partner. That's OK, but I have not heard of many anecdotal reports of Maven scopes being robust and reliable. Tract seems to have the reputation, for recoil cycles, but on the 1" models. All just anecdotal though, and maybe a few issues with impact?

I'm a bit surprised that the first run has sold out already, at least the mil version. I wonder how many were made? Why so few? Can't afford to order more? OEM capped the quantity? Serious question.

More importantly, I would also be curious about this first run of scopes especially since it seems so limited. In other words, are the samples in the hands of Roksliders actual high volume production units? Was the shipment based on the final established process by the OEM for Maven? Will subsequent runs be made with the same exact process? What level of inspection or assembly are done in San Diego?

I heard or read a claim earlier, that Maven doesn't have enough weight to get the OEM to produce a ringer of a scope. I don't doubt that. Probably a drop in the bucket for the OEM's production, but initial runs can sometimes be done by the most skilled workers. They help iron the kinks out of a process. Hint - you want those skilled techs with tribal knowledge to make your stuff, especially with the Great Resignation and other factors affecting the skilled labor force.

I hope the best for Maven on this model. I'm optimistic, but prepared to be let down. The reticle shown online hurts my brain, but the reports are surprisingly good so I am less concerned now.

J

 

[4th_point]

PS - weird that someone from Maven hasn't posted here as well? Engage the customers, right? Why not?

 

[fwafwow]

PS - weird that someone from Maven hasn't posted here as well? Engage the customers, right? Why not?

I had the same thought, and may have posted something about it being odd that they haven't been trumpeting their new design and successes. But someone made the point that if the company did that, what would that mean about their other scopes?

 

[atmat]

I think that is a sound strategy. Just a handful of samples, fairly light impacts, not enough recoil cycles or magnitude, and limited transport portion. Plus lack of track record. And sorry, but the hype is a little fishy too but I know some people might just be super duper excited. Plus some inside information?

We need the early adopters, as they will help perform the final validation and possibly provide limited field data to the reseller and maybe OEM. Sad but true - "The customer does the final testing". The anecdotal reports are hard to classify, but still add value to consumer confidence. The more the better. As long as the source is reputable and we know the assumptions and conditions, right?

This Maven appears to be the same base model, from the same OEM, as the Tract as well? Not sure that Maven or Tract have the technical expertise in-house to speak authoritatively on this topic to begin with, so they are relying on their outsourced partner. That's OK, but I have not heard of many anecdotal reports of Maven scopes being robust and reliable. Tract seems to have the reputation, for recoil cycles, but on the 1" models. All just anecdotal though, and maybe a few issues with impact?

I'm a bit surprised that the first run has sold out already, at least the mil version. I wonder how many were made? Why so few? Can't afford to order more? OEM capped the quantity? Serious question.

More importantly, I would also be curious about this first run of scopes especially since it seems so limited. In other words, are the samples in the hands of Roksliders actual high volume production units? Was the shipment based on the final established process by the OEM for Maven? Will subsequent runs be made with the same exact process? What level of inspection or assembly are done in San Diego?

I heard or read a claim earlier, that Maven doesn't have enough weight to get the OEM to produce a ringer of a scope. I don't doubt that. Probably a drop in the bucket for the OEM's production, but initial runs can sometimes be done by the most skilled workers. They help iron the kinks out of a process. Hint - you want those skilled techs with tribal knowledge to make your stuff, especially with the Great Resignation and other factors affecting the skilled labor force.

I hope the best for Maven on this model. I'm optimistic, but prepared to be let down. The reticle shown online hurts my brain, but the reports are surprisingly good so I am less concerned now.

J

I appreciate your input, but I do think you’re reading a bit too much into things. This is coming from someone who is cautiously optimistic about the scope but won’t be buying one — so I’ve got no dog in this fight.

Lots of companies have small initial runs of new products. The new Garmin Xero is still near impossible to get, for example.

And if three scopes have been dropped and passed — that’s super promising. At even a 20% failure rate, the likelihood of getting 3 consecutive passes is only ~50%.

Yes, the product hasn’t been tested for its lifespan lifecycle. But keep in mind that none of these other scope brands are passing these homemade drops.

Edit: fixed a word above

 

[fwafwow]

This Maven appears to be the same base model, from the same OEM, as the Tract as well? Not sure that Maven or Tract have the technical expertise in-house to speak authoritatively on this topic to begin with, so they are relying on their outsourced partner. That's OK, but I have not heard of many anecdotal reports of Maven scopes being robust and reliable. Tract seems to have the reputation, for recoil cycles, but on the 1" models. All just anecdotal though, and maybe a few issues with impact?

I have no idea as to where and how Tract is made or if they have in-house expertise on this topic, but they do not believe in these tests. I was told and have read online that they do some sort of recoil test, but I have not been able to find anything other than a reference similar to the following "TRACT scopes were designed and engineered to withstand 1000g of recoil."

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

As a 20 year OEM employee I’ll just say this… You can hire the best quality and reliability teams on the planet. Have the best engineering verification team, and the best validation/alpha/beta teams ever. You can even put very strict product design/spec requirements with stringent overwatched manufacturing certifications in place. None of that will ever replace customer field use. This thread is customer field use and is great to see.

 

[4th_point]

Lots of companies have small initial runs of new products. The new Garmin Xero is still near impossible to get, for example.

And if three scopes have been dropped and passed — that’s super promising. At even a 20% failure rate, the likelihood of getting 3 consecutive passes is only ~50%.

Yes, the product hasn’t been tested for its lifecycle. But keep in mind that none of these other scope brands are passing these homemade drops.

The Garmin is a different distribution model, with wider interest, but I sort of understand your point about availability. Just not apples to apples.

The fact that small runs happen, doesn't negate the question of processes. How does the Xero example relate to that?

Also, I am curious what your definition of lifecycle is? And no scope brands have passed, so this Maven would be the first?

Jason

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

The Garmin is a different distribution model, with wider interest, but I sort of understand your point about availability. Just not apples to apples.

The fact that small runs happen, doesn't negate the question of processes. How does the Xero example relate to that?

Also, I am curious what your definition of lifecycle is? And no scope brands have passed, so this Maven would be the first?

Jason

It’s called supply chain, seed stock, and forecasting estimated annual usage. Nailing these down in combination with very weak/unreliable supply chain timelines is not as easy as you would think.

 

[4th_point]

As a 20 year OEM employee I’ll just say this… You can hire the best quality and reliability teams on the planet. Have the best engineering verification team, and the best validation/alpha/beta teams ever. You can even put very strict product design/spec requirements with stringent overwatched manufacturing certifications in place. None of that will ever replace customer field use. This thread is customer field use and is great to see.

I get your point, but field use is not dropping a scoped rifle on a memory foam mattress topper. Well, maybe... one may get home and drop it on the bed before putting it in the safe!

Just messing with you, but field use has a different meaning in product development.

 

[4th_point]

It’s called supply chain, seed stock, and forecasting estimated annual usage. Nailing these down in combination with very weak/unreliable supply chain timelines is not as easy as you would think.

Good to know about your experience. I understand supply chain issues pretty well, across several industries.

How does your response relate to the question about the processes used for the initial run? The Xero example? Or were you not responding to that?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I get your point, but field use is not dropping a scoped rifle on a memory foam mattress topper. Well, maybe... one may get home and drop it on the bed before putting it in the safe!

Just messing with you, but field use has a different meaning in product development.

Field use is going out and using the thing. Which is what they are doing.

Some folks are dropping, which is a proposed way of “accelerating” field use. Similar to what we’ve done with g force simulators, extreme high/low vibration chambers, salt water baths, tightly controlled impact tests, oven/freeze chambers, the list goes on…

When we compare field use applications to accelerated use lab tests, let’s say, on one of our IMUs as an easy example; we find that prototypes that perform in those tests do well generally speaking when being brought to the field for initial verification.

These scopes are still new. Nothing has been “proven” yet but as the data set grows we do learn more about how “general” field performance is going to be.

Let’s say 5 guys went out and bought 5 VX6 scopes and did this same exact “test”. We’d see 5 complete failures.

 

[Reburn]

PS - weird that someone from Maven hasn't posted here as well? Engage the customers, right? Why not?

Its almost never good when a company comes on here.
It worked out well for stocky's but it has gone so bad for many others.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Probably won’t clutter up the thread with boring work stuff anymore especially on a Saturday, sorry all haha.

Mostly I’m looking forward to two things… Getting my unit in hand on Monday and beginning some of my own “testing”; and seeing if a field evaluation from @Formidilosus comes in testing a couple of these things.

 

[Reburn]

I get your point, but field use is not dropping a scoped rifle on a memory foam mattress topper. Well, maybe... one may get home and drop it on the bed before putting it in the safe!

Just messing with you, but field use has a different meaning in product development.

This response is meant as a query and not in a combative tone please take it as such.

You seem to either have alot of opinons or alot of very specific knowledge in the realm of scope drops and the physics behind it.

If you know all of this why dont you buy a scope from somewhere and participate in showing us how it should be done outside of a labatory setting.

 

[atmat]

Also, I am curious what your definition of lifecycle is?

Sorry, I meant to say “lifespan” and will edit as such. My definition is roughly, the amount of time a product lasts (I.e., time until it fails to fulfill its purpose to an acceptable degree).

And no scope brands have passed, so this Maven would be the first?

I oversimplified, assuming everyone here was familiar with the Field Scope Eval pages. Other scope brands/models have passed, but they’ve been few and far between. Basically, Trij, SWFA, NF, and S&B are the ones passing the tests, while other brands are failing.

 

[BRTreedogs]

So are you gonna sell that swfa 3-15?

There on sale again.

 

[fwafwow]

Probably won’t clutter up the thread with boring work stuff anymore especially on a Saturday, sorry all haha.

Mostly I’m looking forward to two things… Getting my unit in hand on Monday and beginning some of my own “testing”; and seeing if a field evaluation from @Formidilosus comes in testing a couple of these things.

 

[4th_point]

Its almost never good when a company comes on here.
It worked out well for stocky's but it has gone so bad for many others.

Maybe because the company reps don't have the necessary competence. That's not an insult to their intelligence, but a statement of technical competence only. It happened to at least two other companies at another site, as I am sure you may know. The intent and spirit were commendable, but they didn't realize what they were getting into.

I'm not sure Maven has the appropriate person though. Based on some of the other companies in the industry, I highly doubt it. But that is part of the reason why I ask!

 

[Reburn]

Maybe because the company reps don't have the necessary competence. That's not an insult to their intelligence, but a statement of technical competence only. It happened to at least two other companies at another site, as I am sure you may know. The intent and spirit were commendable, but they didn't realize what they were getting into.

I'm not sure Maven has the appropriate person though. Based on some of the other companies in the industry, I highly doubt it. But that is part of the reason why I ask!

So your statement is you don't think there is a compentent person at maven?