Masculinity and Caliber Choice

[jimh406]

The hundreds of decropsy photos?

That's fine for those with no frame of reference, but you seem to want him to ignore what he's seen in person.

 

[Grundy53]

That's fine for those with no frame of reference, but you seem to want him to ignore what he's seen in person.

I don't give a rip what he does. But he gives "advice" supposedly to less experienced folks. Said advice has been proven wrong endlessly. Yet he keeps spouting off. He can hunt with an elephant gun for all I care but it's non-sense to recommend an elephant gun to inexperienced people because if you don't the 90 pound antelope will keep on running with the herd.

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[Formidilosus]

That's fine for those with no frame of reference, but you seem to want him to ignore what he's seen in person.

Then why doesn’t he share what he’s seen in person? Or is it more likely that he has not killed animals with the heavy for caliber tipped match bullets that are being discussed. Notice he will write multiple paragraph responses about his, his brothers, and everyone else including his gardeners vast experience with everything under the sun, but won’t answer what animals he killed last year and with what. He wont provide any details- because he has none. He like most, are just repeating what they’ve been told.

Bullets and tissue don’t vary that much- there isn’t this magic thing that is happening with ID, WY, and MT elk, that somehow doesn’t happen with AZ and NM elk- they’re the same thing. An elk “shoulder” is 4-6 inches deep from skin to inside of the rib cage- that’s it. The scapula itself is as thick as a standard piece of cardboard- the ribs are thicker on average than the “shoulder”.

How anyone has taken an elk apart and deboned it, and still believes that any non lightweight varmint bullet isn’t making it through that is pure psychoses.

 

[yeti12]

If you want to shoot a cartridge, just go right ahead - I’m happy for you. I was serious when I said it would be great if my hunting partners used a wider variety of cartridges.

You must be the only person on Rokslide that has ever expressed the slightest ability to know moving target lead - something more people should know. You’re right I wouldn’t know how many inches to lead anything at any range. Instead I know the flight time and know a few spoken words that correspond to that flight time - simply watch the horizontal movement against something fixed around the animal and bingo bongo that’s the lead for any speed, and any angle - the deer could be moon walking backwards, or doing summersaults.

So now you say that all your friends and neighbors that have all this experience with other calibers all of a sudden don't and you wish your hunting buddies would use other calibers?

And I'm not a pro on shooting movers. I dropped a round on one last weekend. 300yds, 20mph winds. How many rounds have you fired at moving targets? How often can you get 8/8 or 10/10 on that mover going both directions?

 

[Rich M]

As a newish hunter, I’ve been talking to many folks regarding calibers, rifles, etc. It seems there is a pretty substantial amount of hunters who make fun of people who use “wimpy” calibers and try to justify using a 338 Win Mag on southern white tails.

Shouldn’t a person use the strongest caliber they can shoot the best? A .243 in the right spot is miles better than a 300WM in the dirt ya know?

I’ve even been told the .270, .308, and even the .30-06 isn’t good enough and a magnum is needed . Doesn’t make sense.

Thoughts on why some people seem to think their masculinity coincides with their caliber choice?

Folks got nothing better to do.

If you don't agree with everything, there is something wrong with you. You see it here.

Look up the what caliber to get threads and you'll see a lot of 270, 308, 30-06, 6.5 CM responses from the masses.

It is why we have so many diff calibers. Not just 1.

 

[General RE LEE]

Then why doesn’t he share what he’s seen in person? Or is it more likely that he has not killed animals with the heavy for caliber tipped match bullets that are being discussed. Notice he will write multiple paragraph responses about his, his brothers, and everyone else including his gardeners vast experience with everything under the sun, but won’t answer what animals he killed last year and with what. He wont provide any details- because he has none. He like most, are just repeating what they’ve been told.

Bullets and tissue don’t vary that much- there isn’t this magic thing that is happening with ID, WY, and MT elk, that somehow doesn’t happen with AZ and NM elk- they’re the same thing. An elk “shoulder” is 4-6 inches deep from skin to inside of the rib cage- that’s it. The scapula itself is as thick as a standard piece of cardboard- the ribs are thicker on average than the “shoulder”.

How anyone has taken an elk apart and deboned it, and still believes that any non lightweight varmint bullet isn’t making it through that is pure psychoses.

Not to derail but is there an appreciable difference between the 140 ELD-M and the 143 ELD-X out of a 20” 6.5 CM muzzle velocity 2625 FPS

Thank you sir

 

[TaperPin]

So now you say that all your friends and neighbors that have all this experience with other calibers all of a sudden don't and you wish your hunting buddies would use other calibers?

And I'm not a pro on shooting movers. I dropped a round on one last weekend. 300yds, 20mph winds. How many rounds have you fired at moving targets? How often can you get 8/8 or 10/10 on that mover going both directions?

I’ve never shot at a range that had moving targets - I’d probably enjoy it.

I must not be the right person to explain how people around me behave. For does, meat bucks or cows we shoot them with whatever and avoid hard angled shots, but when it comes to what might be a once in a lifetime animal it makes sense to us to use something with deeper penetration for those hard angled shots. A Creedmoor, 25-06, 270, or even a 243 are all popular meat hunting guns - we see what they do every year, year after year, family after family. There isn’t any mystery to it - it’s not some hidden secret.

 

[roosiebull]

As a newish hunter, I’ve been talking to many folks regarding calibers, rifles, etc. It seems there is a pretty substantial amount of hunters who make fun of people who use “wimpy” calibers and try to justify using a 338 Win Mag on southern white tails.

Shouldn’t a person use the strongest caliber they can shoot the best? A .243 in the right spot is miles better than a 300WM in the dirt ya know?

I’ve even been told the .270, .308, and even the .30-06 isn’t good enough and a magnum is needed . Doesn’t make sense.

Thoughts on why some people seem to think their masculinity coincides with their caliber choice?

Yeah, it’s pretty funny, lots of people identify with their cartridges and pickups, bigger is better…

I am more in favor of the smallest without compromise with both, small pickups and cartridges, they work better for me

 

[mt100gr.]

I’ve never shot at a range that had moving targets - I’d probably enjoy it.

I must not be the right person to explain how people around me behave. For does, meat bucks or cows we shoot them with whatever and avoid hard angled shots, but when it comes to what might be a once in a lifetime animal it makes sense to us to use something with deeper penetration for those hard angled shots. A Creedmoor, 25-06, 270, or even a 243 are all popular meat hunting guns - we see what they do every year, year after year, family after family. There isn’t any mystery to it - it’s not some hidden secret.

The reality is that a creedmoor, 25-06, 270, 243 and even the .223, WITH GOOD BULLETS, are all 100% capable big game hunting cartridges. Even for those wild angled shots that everyone is so afraid of. Centerfire cartridges are more alike than different at hunting ranges.

 

[yeti12]

I’ve never shot at a range that had moving targets - I’d probably enjoy it.

I must not be the right person to explain how people around me behave. For does, meat bucks or cows we shoot them with whatever and avoid hard angled shots, but when it comes to what might be a once in a lifetime animal it makes sense to us to use something with deeper penetration for those hard angled shots. A Creedmoor, 25-06, 270, or even a 243 are all popular meat hunting guns - we see what they do every year, year after year, family after family. There isn’t any mystery to it - it’s not some hidden secret.

So the "small" guns that work great year after year you go away from for a large buck? Cause a large buck is harder to kill than a cow elk or small buck?

Thought you guys only used big calibers cause a 8th grader can tell they kill better....

Now you say you haven't ever shot a moving target but you were an expert on leading targets just a few posts ago.

 

[Pharmseller]

If my target is walking I can shoot it.

If it’s moving out, it’s safe from me.

 

[TaperPin]

So the "small" guns that work great year after year you go away from for a large buck? Cause a large buck is harder to kill than a cow elk or small buck?

Thought you guys only used big calibers cause a 8th grader can tell they kill better....

Now you say you haven't ever shot a moving target but you were an expert on leading targets just a few posts ago.

We don’t take difficult angled shots for meat animals. I don’t know how to say that in a way it makes sense to you.

Never said I was an expert at anything even though I’ve figured out how to shoot well enough - but I do enjoy pointing out the common sense decision making that this type of post often lacks.

I do know memorizing 10 mph lead doesn’t translate well while hunting for a number of reasons. I’d love to learn a more effective technique than what I use, and have been receptive to different techniques since Marry Lou won her gold medal, but few people seem to put much thought into it.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

I’d love to learn a more effective technique than what I use,

Seeing as your current technique is guessing the time to target while reciting “eenie meenie miney moe” to see how far it travels from the center of your reticle, then hoping the animal continues on a perfectly straight uninterrupted path at the exact same speed until you can get your shot off… I’d say any other technique is an upgrade.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Seeing as your current technique is guessing the time to target while reciting “eenie meenie miney moe” to see how far it travels from the center of your reticle, then hoping the animal continues on a perfectly straight uninterrupted path at the exact same speed until you can get your shot off… I’d say any other technique is an upgrade.

 

[wyosam]

Seeing as your current technique is guessing the time to target while reciting “eenie meenie miney moe” to see how far it travels from the center of your reticle, then hoping the animal continues on a perfectly straight uninterrupted path at the exact same speed until you can get your shot off… I’d say any other technique is an upgrade.

Any other technique is also dependent on those same conditions not changing from time of “calculation” to breaking the shot, to impact. Way less voodoo involved than reading wind in the mountains.


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[Thinkingman]

99% of deer hunters dont need to make wind calls AT ALL. Regardless of whether using a big magnum to reduce wind error actually works, remember that MOST deer hunters are hunting whitetailed deer with 100% of shots less than 300 yards, yet magnumitis is still a common disease.

You're not a man if you're not making wind calls.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Any other technique is also dependent on those same conditions not changing from time of “calculation” to breaking the shot, to impact. Way less voodoo involved than reading wind in the mountains.

Any technique that involves “calculating” distance moved as the bullet travels on the fly in the field is flawed. It’s really easy to jam your basic BC/vel into a calculator that has moving target outputs. Put in the approximate MPH for a walk, jog, and run for the animal you’re hunting and see what the leads would look like in MIL or MOA at expected hunting distances. For me this would all be only for previously wounded animals just to get more shots on target if needed. Takes 5 minutes tops but requires a civilized hashed reticle.

 

[wyosam]

Any technique that involves “calculating” distance moved as the bullet travels on the fly in the field is flawed. It’s really easy to jam your basic BC/vel into a calculator that has moving target outputs. Put in the approximate MPH for a walk, jog, and run for the animal you’re hunting and see what the leads would look like in MIL or MOA at expected hunting distances. For me this would all be only for previously wounded animals just to get more shots on target if needed. Takes 5 minutes tops but requires a civilized hashed reticle.

So 5 minutes of messing around with approximate speeds on your phone is NOT flawed? If I was going to do something more than seat of the pant on a moving animal (beyond spitting distance it’s wounded animal only for me as well), I’d preset time of flight into a metronome app for various ranges, turn it on quietly and let it tick. Then watch the animal live in the scope. Would be pretty easy to actually calculate the shot that way. Nothing that takes you out of the scope makes any sense, because you’re not using real time information. That is essentially what his method is- only he’s not using a metronome. Could create the mental time (internal metronome basically) easy enough if you shoot steel enough to create the timing. Of course requires focusing on the visual and not the audible impact.


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[TaperPin]

Seeing as your current technique is guessing the time to target while reciting “eenie meenie miney moe” to see how far it travels from the center of your reticle, then hoping the animal continues on a perfectly straight uninterrupted path at the exact same speed until you can get your shot off… I’d say any other technique is an upgrade.

What improved technique do you suggest?

 

[Shō[t]gun]

So 5 minutes of messing around with appropriate speeds on your phone is NOT flawed? If I was going to do something more than seat of the pant on a moving animal (beyond spitting distance it’s wounded animal only for me as well), I’d preset time of flight into a metronome app for various ranges, turn it on quietly and let it tick. Then watch the animal live in the scope. Would be pretty easy to actually calculate the shot that way. Nothing that takes you out of the scope makes any sense, because you’re not using real time information. That is essentially what his method is- only he’s not using a metronome. Could create the mental time (internal metronome basically) easy enough if you shoot steel enough to create the timing. Of course requires focusing on the visual and not the audible impact.

Obviously I’m not talking about 5 minutes of work while watching a wounded deer walk away. Do it at home well before the hunt and have the numbers as a general reference, because shooting moving animals in the woods is a rough estimate situation at best.