Masculinity and Caliber Choice

[180ls1]

Regardless, the dudes are going to find something to pick on you for. Roll with the punches and find a way to throw some back.

 

[mt100gr.]

Speed of smell... What word would I use to get my hold? Snif?

Probably "whiff"

 

[Formidilosus]

Regardless, the dudes are going to find something to pick on you for. Roll with the punches and find a way to throw some back.

This isn’t facebook- no one should be picking on anyone. Logical, well reasoned thoughts with personal experience or something resembling data, without personal attacks is what is needed. However, it must be a two way street- no constructive conversation happens when the response is “well everyone knows” or “you’re wrong”.
Taper Pin could easily relate his experience with smaller diameter, heavy for caliber rapidly fragmenting bullets on game- if he has any. Then it would be a constructive conversation.

 

[wyosam]

Obviously I’m not talking about 5 minutes of work while watching a wounded deer walk away. Do it at home well before the hunt and have the numbers as a general reference, because shooting moving animals in the woods is a rough estimate situation at best.

I don’t see this technology (full of approximate numbers) based solution being even remotely useful. So you’re planning to memorize what animals moving at various approximate speeds, at various ranges require for a hold in mils? The only thing you said that makes any sense is the fact that shooting at moving animals is a rough estimate situation. Having a time of flight reference and watching the animal move compared to that reference time (even if not exact) is a way make that rough estimate, while staying on the animal in the scope. Much like reading wind in the mountains, it’s not the science of calculating drop with an app.


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[BLJ]

I’m going to hold a hand width of daylight between the crosshairs and the dark mane and pull the trigger.

In for more info on this one.

 

[EmperorMA]

If someone is highly experienced, proficient, and shots a magnum well, why not? The best shooter I know shots a 28 Nosler and the second best shooter I know shots a 300 RUM. Is it ego that they shot those cartridges? Absolutely not. I’d trust my life to either of them having to make a 500-800 yard shot under pressure with those “magnums”. They’ve perfected their shooting sequence on those rifles and prefer the added insurance “if” something goes wrong (e.g. wrong wind call).

Another fallacy. There is no such thing as a larger hunting-type cartridge providing "added insurance" for a non-lethal hit. A bad hit with a .243 is no different than the same bad hit with a .300 RUM.

 

[fwafwow]

This is RS gold.

 

[180ls1]

This isn’t facebook- no one should be picking on anyone. Logical, well reasoned thoughts with personal experience or something resembling data, without personal attacks is what is needed. However, it must be a two way street- no constructive conversation happens when the response is “well everyone knows” or “you’re wrong”.
Taper Pin could easily relate his experience with smaller diameter, heavy for caliber rapidly fragmenting bullets on game- if he has any. Then it would be a constructive conversation.

That's fine but its not how dudes are. Hang out with any group of guys long enough and they will be busting each others balls over something. Its actually how guys bond. If you get defense and just respond with logic all the time they will keep picking on you.

 

[Formidilosus]

That's fine but its not how dudes are. Hang out with any group of guys long enough and they will be busting each others balls over something. Its actually how guys bond. If you get defense and just respond with logic all the time they will keep picking on you.

Again- this isn’t Facebook. It doesn’t matter what people do in real life- the owners of the site have been clear that “picking on” and personal attacks are not welcome.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

I don’t see this technology (full of approximate numbers) based solution being even remotely useful. So you’re planning to memorize what animals moving at various approximate speeds, at various ranges require for a hold in mils?

*example*
Walking deer ~3mph= 2mil hold from 100 to 600y
Walking elk ~5mph= 3mil hold from 100 to 600y
(adjust based on your load)

There's only a couple inches of error for using the same hold throughout the whole range, but then again it doesn't matter because the speed is a guess anyway. Angle is irrelevant because you're only accounting for the horizontal speed equivalent.

I only have to remember one number. If its slower, hold less. If its faster, hold more. Moving target holds are linear like wind so if its twice as fast, use twice the lead. Really pretty simple. Nobody's saying its an exact science, but it gets ya damn close really quick without much thinking.

 

[yeti12]

Reason im speaking up is I don't want a new shooter to come across this and think they can lead a elk by a hand width at 400 or use a word to lead it at 300yds. Same with match bullets for hunting, they work and people shouldnt be scared. These rumors and wise tales have ran long enough. This stuff can be disproved so incredibly fast in the real world. And the people sharing them have obviously no experience with them.

 

[180ls1]

Again- this isn’t Facebook.

Correct.

It doesn’t matter what people do in real life-

Yes, it does. He is trying to get advice when talking to folks.

the owners of the site have been clear that “picking on” and personal attacks are not welcome.

Cool.


Maybe you are thinking he is just on the forums? It seems like he is talking to real people, to me at least.

 

[jimh406]

I don't want a new shooter to come across this and think they can lead a elk by a hand width at 400 or use a word to lead it at 300yds. Same with match bullets for hunting, they work and people shouldnt be scared. These rumors and wise tales have ran long enough. This stuff can be disproved so incredibly fast in the real world. And the people sharing them have obviously no experience with them.

I'm not sure I understand your point. It seems that most of what you posted can be disproved.

I've watched a few gel tests that are contradictory with a few different bullet types. No, I didn't save them, but it seems what you expect from one set of bullets to the next can vary.

Fundamentally there is no difference between success. Using smaller bullets at slower speed isn't "more" valid.

 

[thayerp81]

30-06 will cure whatever ails you

 

[RockAndSage]

Again- this isn’t Facebook. It doesn’t matter what people do in real life- the owners of the site have been clear that “picking on” and personal attacks are not welcome.

Thanks for speaking up on this.

I'll add that such behavior also creates an environment where people are far less willing to contribute - on any subject. Someone may opine where they have, say, more experience than expertise on a given subject. But in other areas may have a very genuine expertise. This whole community loses out when it devolves into mocking and attacks, because it makes people far less likely to share what they have genuine expertise on.

It also risks creating a tribal group-think, where those who have different opinions or even hard evidence will just not share, for fear of tribal attack. The strength of a community isn't measured in how uniform they are, but in how adaptive they are - and adaptation requires consideration of new or differing ideas.

 

[180ls1]

I don't want a new shooter to come across this and think they can lead a elk by a hand width at 400 or use a word to lead it at 300yds. Same with match bullets for hunting, they work and people shouldnt be scared. These rumors and wise tales have ran long enough. This stuff can be disproved so incredibly fast in the real world. And the people sharing them have obviously no experience with them.

You completely missed the point of my post. Did you mean to quote someone else?

 

[TaperPin]

No. But I also am not the one saying that elk are near bulletproof and “magnum” makes a difference. Elk are tissue like every other animal. They are not special, magical, or unique in how they die. Any bullet from any caliber, from any cartridge that consistently penetrates 12’ish inches through mild barriers, that impacts at a velocity that expands or upsets consistently and put in the front half will kill elk without issue.

I agree with you - it won’t take anything special to kill this elk. I would expect him to bite the dirt and make it into the 223 post.

 

[yeti12]

You completely missed the point of my post. Did you mean to quote someone else?

Fixed

 

[180ls1]

Thanks for speaking up on this.

I'll add that such behavior also creates an environment where people are far less willing to contribute - on any subject. Someone may opine where they have, say, more experience than expertise on a given subject. But in other areas may have a very genuine expertise. This whole community loses out when it devolves into mocking and attacks, because it makes people far less likely to share what they have genuine expertise on.

It also risks creating a tribal group-think, where those who have different opinions or even hard evidence will just not share, for fear of tribal attack. The strength of a community isn't measured in how uniform they are, but in how adaptive they are - and adaptation requires consideration of new or differing ideas.

I think you guys are missing my point. Its perfectly OK to address the literal words/points of the conversations he is having.

It is also OK to address the underlying communication when talking to these guys. Not everything they say is meant to be taken literally. Doing so will likely result in poor relationships.

It goes the other way as well. "He drives a big truck, he must have a tiny dick."

 

[Jsmalls273]

Lol. All of it,

.223 has ruined any and all cartridge debates. Pick what ya want, They all work fine, end of story.

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