Masculinity and Caliber Choice

[Shō[t]gun]

What improved technique do you suggest?

Scroll up a couple posts.

 

[TaperPin]

Any technique that involves “calculating” distance moved as the bullet travels on the fly in the field is flawed. It’s really easy to jam your basic BC/vel into a calculator that has moving target outputs. Put in the approximate MPH for a walk, jog, and run for the animal you’re hunting and see what the leads would look like in MIL or MOA at expected hunting distances. For me this would all be only for previously wounded animals just to get more shots on target if needed. Takes 5 minutes tops but requires a civilized hashed reticle.

Scroll up a couple posts.

Saying the word “three” quickly happens to be very very close to the time of flight to 300 yards of many cartridges.

I’m not talented enough to be able to tell a 1/2 mph walk vs a quartering 3/4 mph walk. How fast do deer walk? Antelope? Coyotes? Elk? If you know the time of flight and you have a method of estimating the TOF +/- 5%, that seems simple, and universal for all animals, angles and speeds.

 

[Macintosh]

You're not a man if you're not making wind calls.

I call a zero-mil wind hold 99.9% of the time, does that count?
Luckily it seems to work, and the deer cant seem to tell the difference.

 

[TaperPin]

Then why doesn’t he share what he’s seen in person? Or is it more likely that he has not killed animals with the heavy for caliber tipped match bullets that are being discussed. Notice he will write multiple paragraph responses about his, his brothers, and everyone else including his gardeners vast experience with everything under the sun, but won’t answer what animals he killed last year and with what. He wont provide any details- because he has none. He like most, are just repeating what they’ve been told.

Bullets and tissue don’t vary that much- there isn’t this magic thing that is happening with ID, WY, and MT elk, that somehow doesn’t happen with AZ and NM elk- they’re the same thing. An elk “shoulder” is 4-6 inches deep from skin to inside of the rib cage- that’s it. The scapula itself is as thick as a standard piece of cardboard- the ribs are thicker on average than the “shoulder”.

How anyone has taken an elk apart and deboned it, and still believes that any non lightweight varmint bullet isn’t making it through that is pure psychoses.

You’ll be ok.

 

[yeti12]

Saying the word “three” quickly happens to be very very close to the time of flight to 300 yards of many cartridges.

I’m not talented enough to be able to tell a 1/2 mph walk vs a quartering 3/4 mph walk. How fast do deer walk? Antelope? Coyotes? Elk? If you know the time of flight and you have a method of estimating the TOF +/- 5%, that seems simple, and universal for all animals, angles and speeds.

2675fps is .36 second flight time at 300yds. With a 19" lead if the target is moving at 3mph

At 360yds its 23" lead with .44 second flight time.

250yds is 16" lead and .32 second flight.

200yds is 12" lead and .24 second flight.

Is "two" your lead for 200yds?

What about 400yds?

Seems like depending on how fast the voice in your head talks you end up with a few different leads. I'm not sure if I can tell the difference between .24 seconds and .44 by saying 1 word. Yet that error is massive. It would work pretty well to use a mil reticle and know the exact hold. But you guys do things differently.

And no I don't condone 400yd moving shots or a moving shot of any kind but people seem to always talk about em and think a magnum is needed for em.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

 

[TaperPin]

2675fps is .36 second flight time at 300yds. With a 19" lead if the target is moving at 3mph

At 360yds its 23" lead with .44 second flight time.

250yds is 16" lead and .32 second flight.

200yds is 12" lead and .24 second flight.

Is "two" your lead for 200yds?

What about 400yds?

Seems like depending on how fast the voice in your head talks you end up with a few different leads. I'm not sure if I can tell the difference between .24 seconds and .44 by saying 1 word. Yet that error is massive. It would work pretty well to use a mil reticle and know the exact hold. But you guys do things differently.

And no I don't condone 400yd moving shots or a moving shot of any kind but people seem to always talk about em and think a magnum is needed for em.

Your numbers make my case. I can say the “lead” or “three” to the same time within a very small error - only one word is needed for all ranges. Once you have the distance for 300 it’s just a matter of 3rd grade math to add 1/3 for 400 yards, or use 2/3 of that value for 200. I’m not guessing - it’s quite easy to say a word 10 times or 20 times and get a very accurate average. Every person should find their own words that work for their time of flight. Now, if someone struggles with fractions this would be hard.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Just make sure your “lead” word isn’t the same as your safe word.

 

[9.3koolaid]

Just make sure your “lead” word isn’t the same as your safe word.

Do I still use a lead word if I'm in California?

 

[TaperPin]

Try it - imagine this elk is walking at 400 yards - say “lead” and watch how far the elk moves relative to the grass - add 1/3 to that distance. Boom boom.

I’m going to hold a hand width of daylight between the crosshairs and the dark mane and pull the trigger.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Try it - imagine this elk is walking at 400 yards - say “lead” and watch how far the elk moves relative to the grass - add 1/3 to that distance. Boom boom.

What? I’m confused by this. What are we accomplishing here?

 

[TaperPin]

What? I’m confused by this. What are we accomplishing here?

We’re estimating how far the elk will walk during the bullet time of flight.

 

[Formidilosus]

We’re estimating how far the elk will walk during the bullet time of flight.

You need a magnum to kill elk reliably, but you believe you can reliably and consistently hit a moving elk at 400 yards?

 

[TaperPin]

You need a magnum to kill elk reliably, but you believe you can reliably and consistently hit a moving elk at 400 yards?

You think this is a hard shot? Really?

 

[yeti12]

You need a magnum to kill elk reliably, but you believe you can reliably and consistently hit a moving elk at 400 yards?

You just don't use words like he does.

 

[TaperPin]

This elk is moving at the speed of smell - if it were an elk or antelope I’d hope most people could connect.

 

[yeti12]

Just make sure your “lead” word isn’t the same as your safe word.

Really sucks when you mess up and say flower instead of flour.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Picking the RIGHT hunting caliber/cartridge for the job. By the numbers

Was this whole thing a question or a statement? I know for a fact that between myself and two other posters, there's nearly 100 dead elk to draw experience from. You've been lead to the answer a few times. Use your trusted KPS, but make sure the variables you choose keep the pill inside the...

rokslide.com

Relevant post to the topic at hand.

 

[Formidilosus]

You think this is a hard shot? Really?

No. But I also am not the one saying that elk are near bulletproof and “magnum” makes a difference. Elk are tissue like every other animal. They are not special, magical, or unique in how they die. Any bullet from any caliber, from any cartridge that consistently penetrates 12’ish inches through mild barriers, that impacts at a velocity that expands or upsets consistently and put in the front half will kill elk without issue.

 

[yeti12]

This elk is moving at the speed of smell - if it were an elk or antelope I’d hope most people could connect.

Speed of smell... What word would I use to get my hold? Snif?