Management vs. Trades and Labor questions

[mark1j]

Questions about moving from T and L to Management. I have been on the union side for 20 years and am being offered a Supervisor position. I have worked myself into a niche position to where I am pretty much stuck for the rest of my career or until they shut this place down, forecasted in 10 years. My long term goal is to get off of swing shift and this is the only way I can see it happening down the road. Been working swing for 20 years and its starting to affect my health. It would be a salaried position and pay would be equivalent to my current pay with approx. 700 hours of overtime which is what I usually work every year. So basically, same pay but with 700 hours less overtime. My gut is telling me to do it, but I'm scared to make the jump.
Would be supervising 20-30 personnel and be in charge of entire reservation on nights, weekends and holidays. Has anybody made the leap, and would you do it again? What are the pros and cons?

 

[*zap*]

Good luck, hope it works out well.

 

[jayhawk]

“Just do it” —Nike

 

[TaperPin]

Questions about moving from T and L to Management. I have been on the union side for 20 years and am being offered a Supervisor position. I have worked myself into a niche position to where I am pretty much stuck for the rest of my career or until they shut this place down, forecasted in 10 years. My long term goal is to get off of swing shift and this is the only way I can see it happening down the road. Been working swing for 20 years and its starting to affect my health. It would be a salaried position and pay would be equivalent to my current pay with approx. 700 hours of overtime which is what I usually work every year. So basically, same pay but with 700 hours less overtime. My gut is telling me to do it, but I'm scared to make the jump.
Would be supervising 20-30 personnel and be in charge of entire reservation on nights, weekends and holidays. Has anybody made the leap, and would you do it again? What are the pros and cons?

Most of situations like yours I’ve been privy to had two things in common - salary means you get to work way more than you thought was required (for free and with less flexibility for time off), and your stress level will go up. If it’s a well run company there’s much less to worry about, but if management has always had their head in their ass, you’ll get an upfront view and get to share the stress from the other side.

Probably one of those things you just have to try and see how it fits you.

 

[MattB]

It would be a salaried position and pay would be equivalent to my current pay with approx. 700 hours of overtime which is what I usually work every year.

??? You would work 700 hours less for the same pay or you would be working the same number of hours for the same pay?

 

[gburk]

Only if you have an idea of what to do with 700 extra hours of free time

 

[mark1j]

700 hours less. Overtime still available but would be getting paid straight time (hourly straight time rate would higher compared to now).

 

[MattB]

700 hours less. Overtime still available but would be getting paid straight time (hourly straight time rate would higher compared to now).

Then remind me again why there is a question?

 

[3Esski]

no idea how the change would work for you, but I would check your union contract to make sure you don't affect your time in by making the switch. Not sure it applies to you, but it's worth looking into.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I switched and couldn't be happier.

The good part about your deal is they will pay you for the overtime still. But remember that time is your most limited resource so I recommend doing everything you can to not work extra.

 

[MattB]

We have a quote on a white board in our kitchen, “control of your time is the highest dividend money pays.”

I have a sense that, 20 years down the road, you will laugh to yourself that you considered not pursing the management role.

Good luck!

 

[Mojave]

Managing people is a challenge. People have stuff, they get sick, their kids get sick, they have pregnancies, and divorces and financial issues. There are jealousy issues with everything.

I would read a lot of management books on leadership. I can assure you, that you do not have the tools onboard. I don't think you will see the challenges you will face. No one really does. I do not mean that as an insult or a dig on you. I am sure

Find these authors and read their books on leadership.

Jocko Willink

Simon Sinek

If you served in the military, you will see that managing civilians is totally different. I was a supervisor of 30-50 people in the military regularly a few years before more retirement. I have 12 people now.

There are age class issues, gender issues, religous issues, race issues I can't begin to tell you the kind of stuff that you have no idea that you will face.

You should do it if you can. But it isn't going to be an easy road.

 

[Vrybusy]

As others have said, do it. You will in all likelihood make yourself a better person as well as those around you. In addition to the books mentioned above, which are fantastic, you may want to look in to some of Patrick Lencioni's books.....Leaders Eat Last, etc. He along with Simon Sinek (who I've met and spoken with a few times) as well as Jocko really put things in perspective for leaders. If you dont want to read, perhaps listen to a few podcasts. Remember, you're moving to a management position, but those working with you expect you to be much more..... a leader.

 

[Boarmaster]

Every opportunity should be judged on its own merits but in general I wouldn't want to be in management unless it lead to ownership. If I’m going to have all the brain damage of management I want to either own or be working toward ownership.
Otherwise if
I was just getting started I would get a high paying skill I enjoyed doing that I could move about anywhere I want to live and make a good living without having to start over income wise every time I moved.
Just do my own thing without employees.

 

[bigbassin]

My first thought is your number one goal is to get off swingshift and this allows you to do it without a pay cut, it sounds like you are getting what you want. Second thought is that if you’re current position has you in a niche corner with no further advancement possibilities, moving into the management role probably resets the possibility of advancement.

Only thing I would be hesitant on is saying you’ll work less hours just because the salary states a 40 hour week. If your people are working, you may not be onsite but you will still need to be clocked in and ready to return if something goes awry. Even non-management salary positions I’d say the expectation is 50 hour weeks (looks like you currently average 53 hour weeks).

You didn’t mention PTO or other benefit increases. Do you already have that or is it something you’ll gain by taking on a salaried role?

 

[EdP]

I worked the company side my entire career, in both management and non-management positions. I supervised engineers and hourly at various times. TaperPin is spot on. Many times the first supervisory position offered a T&L person doesn't provide any more pay and is more stress, but quality of life is better. It sounds like that may be your situation, but also as TP said, you will probably work some unpaid OT, get off hours calls, etc.

A couple of things you may want to consider:
Is there a salary upside potential in the supervisory job that is better than the increases T&L gets)? Also, another step up in management would probably mean a significant salary increase. If the place shuts down in 10 years and you want to keep working, you will have both supervisory and T&L experience on your resume.

My view is there is no downside to taking the job offered.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Wheels]

I'm guessing they are asking you to give up your union card?
Before doing that, make sure that the companies health insurance and retirement benefits are in line with the unions benefits, and your union pension will still be available to you upon retirement.

 

[hillbillyfab]

Lots of good advice given. I’ll try and keep it short. Glad to see you getting compensation after 40, because as a first level supervisor you’re going to work more than 40 more often than not. It may not be at your place of employment, but it will be with phone calls, emails, etc. while you’re away from the “office”. I’d definitely find out how it changes, your union benefits, pension, retirement, etc. I tote a union card I earned years ago coming up in an apprenticeship program. I’d have a hard time if I had to make a decision to give it up or not.

 

[Mike 338]

Same pay, less hours. That's a raise, IF they actually don't put you on overtime because you won't be paid for it. You may well be expected to work it or choose to put it in yourself.

Mgt. isn't always what you think it is. Unless you're at the top, you'll find yourself, not being in charge of, but rather, working for everybody else. You're under those above you and you can't just fire problem people under you and even if you could, getting a replacement can be next to impossible. About 10% of the employees are awesome. About 10% are stealing, incompetent, on drugs, excessively absent, lazy, constantly causing conflict... Everyone else is somewhere in-between. Upper Mgt. will constantly analyze costs and make you responsible regardless of the economy, staffing shortages, volume of business coming in, and a myriad of other things not in your control. Gotta watch your mouth. Forget you ever had a sense of humor because you'll be reported for saying something/anything inappropriate. When that happens, your boss has no other choice but to reprimand you. Zero joking around or you'll eventually regret it.

You're told you're the boss right up to the point that you have a disagreement with your own bosses and then you come to realize you're nothing more than a glorified key carrier. Unless you own the company, Managers are still somebody's employee. All that said, if your body is breaking down and you want to know what it's like to go to bed and wake up at regular hours, I'd say go for it. 10 years will come and go fast enough and there will be parts of the job you really like. You'll also be naturally respected by a fair amount of your staff due to your position, as well as disrespected by some for the same reason. It can wear you down but you don't get arthritis from it, and you don't want arthritis if it can be avoided.

 

[Silveroddo]

I started out my career in construction management and have had the opportunity to observe both sides of the coin. In my mind the biggest question is “do you want the job”. I’ve seen a lot of trades guys take positions like this because of the money and the title, not because they wanted to be adult baby sitters. Nine times out of 10 those guys fail. If you actually want to do the job, feel you understand it, and feel like you have an aptitude for it this could be a great opportunity. If none of those apply to your situation you may be miserable.
In my previous position I was encourage to start working my way up the ranks, by that point I'd been there and done that and knew that the agency I worked for was not who I wanted to be in management with. I declined and watched the next 2 guys work their way up, get the coveted job, and wash out in less than 2 years. Both guys had 10 years in and once they got to the "top" (mid level management) they hated it.
Just throwing it out there, only you know what makes sense for you in your gut. One thing is a person needs to be constantly challenged to grow, this could be that opportunity, or it could be the wake up call to look else where.
Good Luck!