Management vs. Trades and Labor questions

[mark1j]

To answer a few questions, the yearly raises in the past has pretty much been 1% more than the union side. Yearly bonus is significantly more than union side. One of my major concerns is that on the union side I could always turn down overtime if I didn’t want it and they could not do anything about it. On the management side I am expected to answer phone and come in when needed. If I don’t they could hold it against me come time for raises or bonuses.

 

[Weldor]

Retired 28 yrs of good union work. Turned down salary a few times. I prefer to make my own decision's. Don't like the idea of a corporation telling me I have to work or take phone calls on my time. Union's worked hard for the 40 hr week, overtime is a plus and fair compensation is expected. With salary the company own's you. Even if you disagree with their decision's you have to follow along, no thanks IMHO. Good luck to you in your career either way. Just make sure your pension follows you.

 

[7mm-08]

When I read through threads like this, I always come away thinking how wonderful the people on this site are to take their time to think about the question and share their experiences and advice on stuff that is WAY beyond a dumbass like myself. Great community!

 

[william schmaltz]

Since you worked for the Union and it sounds like you will now be supervising the same union employees, what have you witnessed as far as complaints and conflict resolution between union and management. I’m sure it varies, but the couple unions I’ve been forced to be part of seemed to make management’s life hell because they could. It was constant complaints and conflict. Instead of brining up issues and solving them like adults in 10 minutes, workers would complain anonymously through the Union about every little thing.

 

[yfarm]

As a professional watched from the sidelines as technical people I worked with that were excellent at their jobs got promoted into management roles based on their technical expertise. Management jobs required whatever time was required to meet the needs of the position. Many took work home at night, regulations regarding payment of overtime to salaried employees is complex and many ended up with more hours for no additional pay. Took a number of excellent techs and ended up with a few successful managers, at least half or more quit and went back to their tech roles. Most of the successful ones ended going back to school getting business degrees in the evenings while they worked the day job. Learning a new job while being expected to produce as you learn is stressful for a lot of people.

 

[Fire_9]

I am no longer in a union but I'm still a working guy. I have started to think more and more about eventually taking a supervisor position but my current company seems to go through re orgs every year or two and supervisors are often moved/demoted. I'm not untouchable in my current position but pretty damn close. There's no way I'm going to make the jump and be at the mercy of the next re org. I think you find more people that say making the change wasn't worth it than you find that say it was a good move.

 

[LeftyWilbury]

managing people is horrible. and i'd be the first to admit i'm horrible at it. i just expect people to be somewhat motivated, competent, and able to use an alarm clock. my bad for expecting too much from people these days. i now am just impressed the people who work for me still know how to breathe. managing 20-30 people sounds painful.

and as noted in previous posts, you're just "managing" what's below you. and what's above you might be a total sh!tshow. hiring and firing people is unfun, especially when you don't actually have decision-making power. and salaried you're now working 100% of the time. i haven't had a real vacation in six years. no one else can do my job.

that said, i know people who are good managers who manage good people. they love it.

nothing ventured, nothing gained. it might be awesome for you. maybe they'll pay for your cell phone so they can call you all the time.

 

[Mojave]

My x-wife worked for a HVAC outfit in California when we were married 28 years ago. She had worked for them for 15 years, her mother had worked for them for 40. They got bought out by a bigger HVAC outfit. Everyone in management and admin including all the non-trades personnel were given a $2000 per year of employment and told to find another job. The trades personnel just got rolled into the bigger company.

 

[Fredcohunter]

I am in a different profession however I worked a significant amount of hours for the better part of 25 years. Some years over 700 additional hours. For the last several years I have been 8 hours a day for the most part with no working on weekends and my only regret is spending all those years valuing money, career and advancement over time. If you have an opportunity to work 700 less hours per year and still have the same lifestyle do it.

 

[JFK]

Can’t tell you what the right answer is, but sounds like a decent deal they are offering you. If you take it, remember where you came from and don’t become one of those managers that flips a switch in their head. Take care of your people, have their back, and they will respect you when hard decisions need to be made. Is it a pretty smooth running place, or one that’s riddled with constant drama? Two very different scenarios that would impact you as a manager.

I’d also look into possible job security. Union jobs usually means pretty hard to get let go. Management is normally at-will, meaning if a higher up decides to reorganize they can fire you whenever they please, with or without reason.

Salary, plus OT is not a bad thing. I’ve had salaried positions in my old career and they worked me like a rented mule. Still, even with some extra hours worked you have 700 hours less than your current position so it likely still makes sense. Good luck.

 

[mark1j]

Thanks for input, much appreciated. I have some thinking to do. It’s hard to make a change after 20 years.

 

[Fuzzy684]

Pros: less hours and for me it was the only way out of weekend work and I get to spend more time with my family. Time is precious and we only get so much.

Cons: grown men in the maintenance department can be some of the biggest babies I've ever dealt with. I get to work this weekend due to a member that was conditionally approved for vacation(guy needed to find someone in another department willing to cover his shift for him to be eligible to be off this weekend) throwing a fit to HR. I chose to step up and work for him this weekend even though he was reminded weekly for the last 6 weeks that he would be working the weekend if he didn't have someone to cover his shift. This person was going to be in the running for a promotion soon ironically for a position with hardly any weekend work.

I don't like charts and graphs, I don't like presenting downtime reports, and I don't like dealing with adult children but overall it was an increase in pay going from 70 hours a week to 50 hours. I'll take another step up this fall and get my hours down to 40 but it is a straight salary position with no overtime compensation where as now I get get straight pay for any overtime hours.

I would do it again for the increase in quality of life outside of work but it's not for everyone. I have 3 people I work with that were previously in my position that either stepped down or took positions in other departments to get out of it. Be ready to accept responsibility for your members actions and often items/actions that are out of your control, everybody loves a scapegoat.

My responsibilities are never cut and dry but it may be where you're at so I would ask for a clear explanation of duties and responsibilities also.

Overall I consider myself blessed even with all the negatives it's fun to watch new guys grow and learn and be able to point them in the right direction. I can still get my hands dirty if I choose to and I get to be involved in the really big breakdowns instead of the nickel and dime day to day stuff. It's the same reason I love hunting so much, quite the challenge sometimes.

Let me know if you have any more specific questions, I'd be happy talk more about it.

 

[roadrunner]

Supervisors oversee activity.

Managers oversee a process.

There is a difference. Supervisor's often get held accountable for managers "shenanigans" when things don't go well.

In supervision you will be responsible to ensure work is done by scheduling manpower and materials. You'll be held "accountable" for day to day expenditures. You'll get to have your bonus affected by your work group's safety numbers. You'll get to be involved more than you'd like in disputes and injuries.

If you're mid-career with 20 more to go, do it. It will do more for you 10 years from now when the place shuts down in 10.

What do you mean by uncharged if the reservation nights, weekends, and holidays?

 

[Gen273]

Do it, and don't overthink it. This is an opportunity to, in reality, make more money because you are working fewer hours. It's also an opportunity to work a consistent shift. On top of that, you will expand your resume by adding a management role to it. This may not seem important now, but it could be down the road. Good luck, and God bless.

 

[Scotto]

Will the employer let you take the job on a temporary rotation, say 6 months, to see if you like it before jumping in with both feet?