Learn from my trespassing mistake in Idaho!!!!!

[Reburn]

It was made clear that law enforcement has no legal responsibility to protect victims in the Uvalde school shooting.

Law enforement is there to protect and serve the law. Not the individual.

 

[idahodave]

This is a case where private property rights should not be protected to the extent it was. The land should be marked at all access points as you approach the gate, not on the other side.

Maybe you can tell us what “extent” your/my/our private property rights SHOULD be protected…since Idaho State Statute doesn’t work for you.

We can call it “road runner law” since you’re just making chit up that doesn’t actually correspond to what the elected Idaho legislature passed.

 

[Teodoro]

Law enforement is there to protect and serve the law. Not the individual.

Several posts in this thread highlight that often law enforcement is there to protect and serve the local rich guy more than the law itself.

 

[Reburn]

Several posts in this thread highlight that often law enforcement is there to protect and serve the local rich guy more than the law itself.

You are showing you dont have a firm grasp on the subject.
The law enforcement is serving the law made by the Idaho senator. The warden didnt make the law.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I will start by saying I may have done the exact same thing in your position. If I can take a huge shortcut when packing out a bull I probably will.

Thats messed up

 

[roadrunner]

Maybe you can tell us what “extent” your/my/our private property rights SHOULD be protected…since Idaho State Statute doesn’t work for you.

We can call it “road runner law” since you’re just making chit up that doesn’t actually correspond to what the elected Idaho legislature passed.

Why are you so mad for this Wilks outfit? Who are they to you? What do you gain by defending them?

You're very emotionally invested in this. Please share why.

 

[idahodave]

I already stated I have ZERO connection to the Wilkes Bros. It might shock you to know, but I lost access to my favorite turkey hunting spot when they bought that land.

I’m not defending the Wilkes bros…I’m defending the LAW. The same guy(s) that will rationalize illegal trespassing are the ones that’ll shoot 5 minutes early in the duck blind, keep a fish an inch too short, shoot a bull 10 minutes past legal light, and any other number of laws MOST of us follow.

What I don’t like are those that don’t play by the rules…especially those that rationalize doing so or try and make up their own set of rules simply because they disagree with them.

It’s insane to me how many of you are pointing fingers at…

1. Game Warden
2. “Crooked” legislators
3. Prosecutors
4. The landowner
5. The judge

Instead of the guy that freely admitted he KNOWINGLY BROKE THE LAW. Private property rights are to be protected at all costs…or the lock on your door has no value.

Would you minimize the effect of someone walking through the front door of your home because it was a shorter path to where they were heading? Color me dubious.

 

[roadrunner]

I already stated I have ZERO connection to the Wilkes Bros. It might shock you to know, but I lost access to my favorite turkey hunting spot then they bought that land.

I’m not defending the Wilkes bros…I’m defending the LAW. The same guy(s) that will rationalize illegal trespassing are the ones that’ll shoot 5 minutes early in the duck blind, keep a fish an inch too short, shoot a bull 10 minutes past legal light, and any other number of laws MOST of us follow.

What I don’t like are those that don’t play by the rules…especially those that rationalize doing so or try and make up their own set of rules simply because they disagree with them.

You didn't lose access if there is another way in across public or private that grants it.

Property before allowed access for a long period of time prior according to the opening post. There is a precedent and since there are ID statute experts on this thread, how does the state law speak to that?

This is simply a case of a crybaby landowner with the financial backing to gain the interest of a legislator that can get campaign funding or some other favor. The politician isn't a private property rights crusader.

Everyone else in the state legislature got something they all wanted as well in some form or another and likely this bill was added in as part of some kind of stupid budget funding. They aren't property rights crusaders either.

That's how state politics works. Even in innocent ID...

 

[waspocrew]

Thats messed up

Agreed. We have property adjacent to BLM. Had a guy call us last season, said he shot a bull on the BLM and was wondering if he could cross our property to pack it out.

We were out hunting at the time too, so got the voicemail late. Not sure what he ended up doing.

Not necessarily specific to OPs case, but if you’re going to pack in an hunt, be prepared to pack an animal out the way you came in. Don’t cross private just because you think you can.

 

[idahodave]

You didn't lose access if there is another way in across public or private that grants it.——

There isn’t/wasn’t. I lost access…full stop. Not sure why you’re speculating otherwise?…looking for something to fit your rational maybe?

Property before allowed access for a long period of time prior according to the opening post. There is a precedent and since there are ID statute experts on this thread, how does the state law speak to that?

This is simply a case of a crybaby landowner with the financial backing to gain the interest of a legislator that can get campaign funding or some other favor. The politician isn't a private property rights crusader.

Everyone else in the state legislature got something they all wanted as well in some form or another and likely this bill was added in as part of some kind of stupid budget funding. They aren't property rights crusaders either.

That's how state politics works. Even in innocent ID...

The rest of this response is such a mess I don’t know where to begin. There isn’t a “precedent”. If your neighbor allows you to use his pool, and then sells the home to someone else…do you REALLY believe you are still welcome to use that pool because the last owner did?

You speculating the trespass bill passed was somehow a part of a larger, nefarious plan is also just weird…and par for the course.

You KEEP proving my original point with you about making chit up…it’s a pattern. Just not sure why honestly.

 

[Dave0317]

I already stated I have ZERO connection to the Wilkes Bros. It might shock you to know, but I lost access to my favorite turkey hunting spot then they bought that land.

I’m not defending the Wilkes bros…I’m defending the LAW. The same guy(s) that will rationalize illegal trespassing are the ones that’ll shoot 5 minutes early in the duck blind, keep a fish an inch too short, shoot a bull 10 minutes past legal light, and any other number of laws MOST of us follow.

What I don’t like are those that don’t play by the rules…especially those that rationalize doing so or try and make up their own set of rules simply because they disagree with them.

It’s insane to me how many of you are pointing fingers at…

1. Game Warden
2. “Crooked” legislators
3. Prosecutors
4. The landowner
5. The judge

Instead of the guy that freely admitted he KNOWINGLY BROKE THE LAW. Private property rights are to be protected at all costs…or the lock on your door has no value.

Would you minimize the effect of someone walking through the front door of your home because it was a shorter path to where they were heading? Color me dubious.

“Private Property Rights” can’t be interpreted as a blanket term. Or at least courts in most of the country don’t see it that way. There are varying degrees of expectations of privacy depending on the property.

For example, the mailman can walk across dozens of feet of your property to reach your front door. As can the police. Soon as you cross the threshold into your home, your expectation of privacy is much higher, and the courts have agreed, the “sanctity of the home” is one of your strongest rights. Open fields not so much. Police don’t need a warrant to cross and search an open field at all. It’s an established thing called “open fields doctrine”.

Many states require a trespasser be adequately warned or told to leave. Whether with signage or in person, and if they choose to trespass there after seeing the sign, prosecution becomes an option. If this guy entered the land on the unmarked side, he should have been given a warning; going by most states law/procedures.

It is easier than ever to stay on the right side of the law with all the mapping software we have now, but even then, we’ve all seen public roads marked “no trespassing” when they shouldn’t be, and public right of ways built through private land. So this guy thinking he was probably safe to cut through, is not all that wild to believe.

 

[Dave0317]

Feel free to post the "you are a dumbass" comments here but hopefully I can save some other new hunter some stress.

I got my first bull elk in I Idaho last fall on state land. I came up through public land early in the dark and waited for daylight. I got my bull first thing in the morning and got it tagged and bagged very early. I spent the next several hours moving the game bags around to keep them cool while waiting on the other hunters in the group to call it a day. I had the proper tag, weapon and location. As the day progressed I started feeling the need to expedite getting the elk to the processor. See where I am going with this?

A very thin strip of land along the highway below us had been private Potlatch Latch land for decades and the gates were open and the public routinely used the road to access public lands above it. This land is now owned by the billionaire Wilks Brothers and was on OnX. I rode down an unmarked road on my bicycle and the gate at the very bottom was now closed and locked. It was marked private on the opposite side and visible only when on the other side. I should have turned around and rode back up. The gate was about 100 yards from the highway so I tossed my bike over the gate and rode out to the highway. I was on that land for about 90 seconds. Unfortunately for me Idaho Fish and Game drove by as I was getting the elk loaded into a truck to get it to the processor. At this point I still had no clue of the gravity of the situation!! I felt no cause for concern and with a smile went to meet the officer to provide my ID and documents. At that point in my 58 years I had never even had a parking ticket and was new to hunting.

I got a ticket for trespass to hunt and thanks to the Wilks brothers Idaho trespassing laws became a VERY BIG DEAL in 2018. There have been attempts in the legislature to not allow people to buy very small parcels of land to block access to thousands but thus far the billionaire lobbyist have blocked it. The ticketing officer told me I better get an attorney. What?? I rode my bike across a dirt road where there were no people, structures, or farmland and I did not damage anything.

Fast forward 4 months and the best offer from the county prosecutor was loss of my elk, $1500 fine, loss of nationwide hunting privileges for a year, 90 day suspended jail sentence, 40 hours of community service and 1 year of probation. One would think I cut a lock, shot my elk on private land and rolled around in the dirt with the officer. My friends were hunting the same area the day after I got my ticket and the officer was there confirming where my elk carcass was. It was of course exactly where I told him it was. The charges were strictly for being on private land. If I heard this story I would say someone is full of $hit because something is missing here. It is not. I worked side by side with law enforcement for my career and I definitely passed the attitude test and left nothing but bicycle tracks on private land.

I intended to go to a Jury trial based on the charges and it wasn't until the last hearing the prosecutor dropped the suspended jail time and probation. Fortunately the judge was a decent person and advised me, after I pled guilty, of an Idaho law that will show this case as dismissed in one year and will not show up anywhere.

I think the officer had an ax to grind with one of the people in our camp and I got caught up in it.

IMPORTANT LESSONS

1. Know where you are in Idaho and stay off of private land. It is the hunters responsibility to know.

2. SHUT THE **** UP!! The officer did not see anything and had no proof. I was just a naive dumbass. I have friends that are cops and judges and they have always said never say anything. He kept me there for over an hour questioning me a building a case. At one point I said "can I just go to town and plead guilty and pay my fine?" At that point I thought I was dealing with something like a parking ticket. Guess what video clip he submitted without context? If I could do it again I would have provided my documentation politely said nothing else. I will never share seemingly harmless information again.

Okay there is my humiliating story. Hopefully someone learns from this and turns around when onX tells them to and remember STFU! I cant imagine how terrible it would have been if I had damaged private property or shot my elk on private land!

Wow!
We see drive by shootings not get that kind of prosecution in many parts of the country.

I’m a law and order guy through and through. But their sentencing deal is crazy unreasonable. Hire an attorney to help. They won’t get it dropped considering the statements/admissions you made, but they can probably help get you a lighter deal.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

I already stated I have ZERO connection to the Wilkes Bros. It might shock you to know, but I lost access to my favorite turkey hunting spot when they bought that land.

I’m not defending the Wilkes bros…I’m defending the LAW. The same guy(s) that will rationalize illegal trespassing are the ones that’ll shoot 5 minutes early in the duck blind, keep a fish an inch too short, shoot a bull 10 minutes past legal light, and any other number of laws MOST of us follow.

What I don’t like are those that don’t play by the rules…especially those that rationalize doing so or try and make up their own set of rules simply because they disagree with them.

It’s insane to me how many of you are pointing fingers at…

1. Game Warden
2. “Crooked” legislators
3. Prosecutors
4. The landowner
5. The judge

Instead of the guy that freely admitted he KNOWINGLY BROKE THE LAW. Private property rights are to be protected at all costs…or the lock on your door has no value.

Would you minimize the effect of someone walking through the front door of your home because it was a shorter path to where they were heading? Color me dubious.

I don't disagree with any of that except to say I think the beef most people have is that the punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime, seems artificially extreme so that's where the suspicion of unknown influence comes into play.

 

[P Carter]

By a show of hand, who has exceeded the speed limit. By the same show of hand, who has exceeded it by 10 mph?

Congratulations! You just willingly and knowingly broke the law.

This is a case where private property rights should not be protected to the extent it was. The land should be marked at all access points as you approach the gate, not on the other side.

The land was marked at the access points - on the side of the gate facing the road where people would approach from the highway.

First, The OP walked around the private to access state land behind it, then after he shot the elk he came down through private onto the road (without seeing posting - because the normal access point was posted per idaho law but not the entire perimeter, again per idaho law), travelled down the private road from the backside, saw that the front of the gate was posted, threw his bike over the posted gate, and was met by an LEO after he’d come down to the highway from the private.

Just for what it’s worth, to explain the confusion about the gate marked on the “wrong” side.

 

[ni7ne]

I've chucked my bike over a number of locked gates and fences on multi-day rides.
Mapping public land was done carefully in advance. It would surprise a lot of people how hit or miss that can be. Not only is the publicly available map data often bad, public land easement has been taken and sold without authority over the years, creating unplanned blockages and cul de sacs.

The government is not a well oiled machine in this regard. My opinions on trespassing have softened the more I encountered this over the years.

 

[P Carter]

Lots of misunderstanding of idaho law here, I might try to post on that but may not. I might just leave it at this: the spirit of the Idaho law is to protect private property, and place the responsibility of knowing what is public and what is private on the *hunter*, where it should be.

The trespass-while-hunting law prohibits trespassing in association with hunting, not just if you shoot game on private.

That the private property is owned by a landowner that many people don’t like isn’t, and shouldn’t be, any sort of defense to trespass, and I doubt that fact would even be admissible in a jury trial.

Bottom line: if you’re hunting in Idaho, it’s your responsibility not to trespass. If you do trespass and get caught, you will face significant (though not life-shattering) consequences.

And again, thanks to OP for posting, I really do appreciate the story and hopefully it will help people avoid doing the same.

 

[idahodave]

I've chucked my bike over a number of locked gates and fences on multi-day rides.
Mapping public land was done carefully in advance. It would surprise a lot of people how hit or miss that can be. Not only is the publicly available map data often bad, public land easement has been taken and sold without authority over the years, creating unplanned blockages and cul de sacs.

The government is not a well oiled machine in this regard. My opinions on trespassing have softened the more I encountered this over the years.

Agree to disagree with yet another person rationalizing. OnX is available to everyone…and is EXACTLY what IDFG uses for enforcement purposes.

I know because some dufus tried to accuse me of trespassing and when the IDFG officer showed up he agreed on the spot my location and route were 100 percent legal as per OnX.

 

[wapitibob]

I already stated I have ZERO connection to the Wilkes Bros. It might shock you to know, but I lost access to my favorite turkey hunting spot when they bought that land.

I’m not defending the Wilkes bros…I’m defending the LAW. The same guy(s) that will rationalize illegal trespassing are the ones that’ll shoot 5 minutes early in the duck blind, keep a fish an inch too short, shoot a bull 10 minutes past legal light, and any other number of laws MOST of us follow.

What I don’t like are those that don’t play by the rules…especially those that rationalize doing so or try and make up their own set of rules simply because they disagree with them.

It’s insane to me how many of you are pointing fingers at…

1. Game Warden
2. “Crooked” legislators
3. Prosecutors
4. The landowner
5. The judge

Instead of the guy that freely admitted he KNOWINGLY BROKE THE LAW. Private property rights are to be protected at all costs…or the lock on your door has no value.

Would you minimize the effect of someone walking through the front door of your home because it was a shorter path to where they were heading? Color me dubious.

Nobody more self centered than a hunter.
The last time I read a self post about getting caught trespassing it took multiple pages for the offender to finally say "the guy has 2k acres and lives in the back. Way more property than he can hunt by himself, I wasn't hurting anything".

 

[Zzyzx]

Lots of mis-statements of Idaho law above.

The Wilks brothers did NOT meet the posting requirement where the road/gate entered the parcel on the “back side”.

Section 18-7008 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[ni7ne]

Agree to disagree with yet another person rationalizing. OnX is available to everyone…and is EXACTLY what IDFG uses for enforcement purposes.

I know because some dufus tried to accuse me of trespassing and when the IDFG officer showed up he agreed on the spot my location and route were 100 percent legal as per OnX.

I was with you on all this until I personally started encountering the failure rate -- in both planning and data -- of the govt land stewardship bureaucracies. No experience with Idaho, but it wouldn't surprise me if the situations are similar.

Also, any situation where publicly accessible tools for public land mapping are fundamentally less accurate than private tools is impossible to describe any way other than "failure".