Largest Private Western Land Owners Controlling Huge Amounts Of Public Land

[RockAndSage]

On the other spectrum there are a bunch of ranchers just paying to rent our public lands to keep beef prices affordable while making nearly nothing in profit through ranching.

There, fixed it for you.

 

[MtnW]

That's a big fat NO from me. And I assume you are unaware of this s it is hard to see from an apartment in town on the East coast but.. Grazing permits come with rules, fines and regulations. As far as overgrazing obviously you have never made a living from ranching or farming. Hint: if you overgraze something that means less to graze later and that means less animal units (you can good animal units) next time. That means less money in an industry that already is not profitable. You keep saying "our lands" well that does not just pertain to you as a hunter/ hiker or whatever. The ranchers pay the EXACT amount in taxes to "own" public land as you do and the little ol lady in New York that will never set foot on NFS/BLM... So, if you don't like grazing leases going to ranchers you have the freedom to purchase grazing leases and NOT put stock on them.

You seem more upset that "rich land barons" are rich and have land than you are anything. If you don't like people buying land to shore up their borders, then buy it first. No one is stopping you from spending your money to make a difference. But instead, you want to come on here (again) and whine and "start a movement." (which is failing, again). Go buy some grazing permits or land that locks up public and open it up to everyone.

Dude, that’s about the most naive comment possible. Obviously you have not lived in the mountain west nor hunted more than once or twice out west. I grew up in Montana, my best friend’s who I hunted elk ,sheep ,mule deer antelope , sharp tails, Huns, pheasants,waterfowl ,and fished with are ranchers from the High Line down to Three Forks. I worked in the entire state of Wyoming for a large part of my career. I lived in Colorado a total of twenty years in three separate sequences from the front range to Vail .

Your comments about land owners buying land to shore up borders is another example of why your comments are wrong. Many of these best public parcels are in the middle of these ranches. I made much of my income selling land. Again you are very naive. These billionaires go after these trophy properties with land locked public land in the middle where it’s not accessible to you and me and laugh at people like you. How do I know this? I made my living off these people.

 

[wapitibob]

Dude, that’s about the most naive comment possible. Obviously you have not lived in the mountain west nor hunted more than once or twice out west. I grew up in Montana, my best friend’s who I hunted elk ,sheep ,mule deer antelope , sharp tails, Huns, pheasants, waterfowl ,and fished with are ranchers from the High Line down to Three Forks. I worked in the entire state of Wyoming for a large part of my career. I lived in Colorado a total of twenty years in three separate sequences from the front range to Vail .

Your comments about land owners buying land to shore up borders is another example of why your comments are wrong. Many of these best public parcels are in the middle of these ranches. I made much of my income selling land. Again you are very naive. These billionaires go after these trophy properties with land locked public land in the middle where it’s not accessible to you and me and laugh at people like you. How do I know this? I made my living off these people.

I'm laughing at you right now.

 

[MtnW]

I'm laughing at you right now.

Glad you can at least form a partial sentence, and that you are easily entertained. Anything else you would like to incorporate into the discussion?

 

[NMJM]

How would creating this list of yours change anything?

 

[wapitibob]

Do you easily forget what your write?

"I am all for private land ownership and allowing land owners do as they please with their private land without any government or public interference ."

 

[Ranger 692]

That's a big fat NO from me. And I assume you are unaware of this s it is hard to see from an apartment in town on the East coast but.. Grazing permits come with rules, fines and regulations. As far as overgrazing obviously you have never made a living from ranching or farming. Hint: if you overgraze something that means less to graze later and that means less animal units (you can good animal units) next time. That means less money in an industry that already is not profitable. You keep saying "our lands" well that does not just pertain to you as a hunter/ hiker or whatever. The ranchers pay the EXACT amount in taxes to "own" public land as you do and the little ol lady in New York that will never set foot on NFS/BLM... So, if you don't like grazing leases going to ranchers you have the freedom to purchase grazing leases and NOT put stock on them.

You seem more upset that "rich land barons" are rich and have land than you are anything. If you don't like people buying land to shore up their borders, then buy it first. No one is stopping you from spending your money to make a difference. But instead, you want to come on here (again) and whine and "start a movement." (which is failing, again). Go buy some grazing permits or land that locks up public and open it up to everyone.

Not sure about the not profitable part right now. There’s a lot of new Denali pickups with bale beds running around MT lately with bred heifers going for $4k+

 

[SDHNTR]

I'm laughing at you right now.

Me too

 

[MtnW]

Do you easily forget what your write?

"I am all for private land ownership and allowing land owners do as they please with their private land without any government or public interference ."

Really? Are you high? Continue laughing. Obviously you have a reading comprehension problem.
Private land ownership is not controlling large sections of land locked PUBLIC land and monetizing the wildlife on these PUBLIC lands
I

 

[MtnW]

Me too

I expect as much from you. Big hat no cattle

 

[RockAndSage]

Not sure about the not profitable part right now. There’s a lot of new Denali pickups with bale beds running around MT lately with bred heifers going for $4k+

It goes in cycles - some of those same guys will lose those trucks in a season or two when prices go back down, especially if Argentine beef gets imported in high volume. You can't think of ranching the same way most businesses are assessed, on a quarterly or yearly basis. They are also businesses that get one big bolus of revenue per year, then, at best, trickles of revenue through side-hustles or ancillary labors.

Also, no joke, selling landowner tags is how some of these old, multi-generational working ranches actually pay for bigger purchases, like a new ranch truck. Most years the ranching margins are pretty thin. BTW, I'm using the term "working ranch" here to differentiate them from the gentlemen's ranches you see in places around Jackson Hole, Aspen, and Ted Turner type places in MT. The places bought with large bankrolls, where the place just doesn't need to turn a profit. As opposed to, you know, the ranches where the "barons" are living in trailers, barely living better than their great-grandparents did when first moving out there.

 

[Hunter26]

I have to say I am a little surprised with the response the OP is getting. I figured there would be more sympathy for public land access on this forum. Regardless if the OP came across bitter about something. After all it is public land. I don't believe much in government interference especially when it is telling land owners what they can and can't do with their private land. But most of us are required to pay property taxes and if you don't then the government can come in and take your property and homes. That principle just has always seemed crazy to me.

I will also say, the power of public opinion can have tremendous power so if this guy feels like this is something worth fighting for then go for it. You know we are fighting the other side to not lose public land so why not fight to figure out a way to gain access to what we have. The change doesn't have to be instituted by a government entity. Maybe he is able to put pressure on a specific landowner or group of landowners to allow access. Probably not likely and much oversimplified but maybe this post gets to somebody that knows one of these guys and it resonates. Then maybe he applies pressure through his connections. IDK

Doesn't sound like he is having much success in his venture and might need to switch up his messaging.

 

[wapitibob]

Really? Are you high? Continue laughing. Obviously you have a reading comprehension problem.
Private land ownership is not controlling large sections of land locked PUBLIC land and monetizing the wildlife on these PUBLIC lands
I

The only thing he's doing is keeping you off his some of his land. You can hunt every one of those public parcels if you're smart enough to get there.

 

[The Ri Guy]

As someone who has spent 99% of their life hunting public, my only goal in life is to get rich enough to buy a fat ass ranch that lets me lock up as much acreage as possible for myself and my buddies to manage harvest and animal quality on...

 

[wapitibob]

I have to say I am a little surprised with the response the OP is getting. I figured there would be more sympathy for public land access on this forum. Regardless if the OP came across bitter about something. After all it is public land. I don't believe much in government interference especially when it is telling land owners what they can and can't do with their private land. But most of us are required to pay property taxes and if you don't then the government can come in and take your property and homes. That principle just has always seemed crazy to me.

I will also say, the power of public opinion can have tremendous power so if this guy feels like this is something worth fighting for then go for it. You know we are fighting the other side to not lose public land so why not fight to figure out a way to gain access to what we have. The change doesn't have to be instituted by a government entity. Maybe he is able to put pressure on a specific landowner or group of landowners to allow access. Probably not likely and much oversimplified but maybe this post gets to somebody that knows one of these guys and it resonates. Then maybe he applies pressure through his connections. IDK

Doesn't sound like he is having much success in his venture and might need to switch up his messaging.

Other than absolutely nothing, what do property taxes have to do with some guy wanting access across private so he can access public ?