Land Sale bills introduced by Utah Legislators

[5MilesBack]

because somehow everything gets back to the government wanting to take guns away. its a giant flow chart with all roads leading to gun grabs.

Selling public lands= gun grab
introducing predators=gun grab
Gay marriage=gun grab
any republican talking point=Gun Grab

its exhausting, the 2A has nothing to do with hunting, and sure as hell has nothing to do with public land "transfers". yet most yelling dont even realize that.

Talk about over-reacting.......all things don't lead to this so-called "gun grab" you speak of as if to say that's the final straw. Actually it would be one of the first straws in the process. The government can't have total power and control until after they've disarmed the citizens. So that has to come earlier in the process.

I just can't figure out how so many people have been blinded to the truth, regardless of what the subject is. How does that happen? A lot of people have either just gotten off the boat, have been living in a cave, or are part of the problem.

 

[tipsntails7]

Talk about over-reacting.......all things don't lead to this so-called "gun grab" you speak of as if to say that's the final straw. Actually it would be one of the first straws in the process. The government can't have total power and control until after they've disarmed the citizens. So that has to come earlier in the process.

I just can't figure out how so many people have been blinded to the truth, regardless of what the subject is. How does that happen? A lot of people have either just gotten off the boat, have been living in a cave, or are part of the problem.

actually every time I see a conversation like this it does... i have read it probably 5 times on this site alone.

predators are introduced to kill off all big game so guns are not needed, so government takes guns...

selling of public land eliminates the need for guns, so government takes guns...

gay marriage strikes at the heart of our values, next they will come for our guns...

its like a broken record, its like liberals and their anti gun nonsense...

people are blinded to the truth because they use the first 3 sites that pop up on google and skim them and act like they are educated on the subject, or regurgitate what some politician or media member says. that goes for both sides of the isle.

back to public land sales...

 

[5MilesBack]

Actually, none of those things tie directly to the liberals wanting to eliminate citizens from owning or having guns. It's just one more piece of their puzzle for control. Is it a piece of the puzzle? Yes, but independent of all the other issues. Regardless of whether they introduce wolves, yes, they still want to eliminate our rights to have guns. Regardless of whether public land is sold, they still want to eliminate our rights to have guns. And with or without gay marriage.........yes....they still want to eliminate our rights to have guns. So yes, we are tired of the liberal broken record of trying to eliminate our rights to have guns. But that's just one of the Constitutional issues I/we have with liberals. That doesn't mean that it is the only issue, or even tied to the rest of them, or any new issues that come up. It's just the status quo, quite evident, and not even debatable that it's one of their goals.

 

[Mike7]

This may or may not interest people. now to be clear this does not mean that we as hunters have access to these lands. that would take a hell of alot more time then i have for the day.

it goes State, amount of state land at adoption, amount of land left, percentage of land left




AZ 8093000 9083900 112%
CO 3686000 2917700 79%
CA 5534000 2243600 41%
ID 2964000 2748400 93%
MT 5198000 5196400 100%
ND 2495000 812100 33%
NM 8711000 8700000 100%
NV 2062000 126200 6%
OR 3399000 2995900 88%
SD 2733000 89900 3%
UT 5844000 3824800 65%
WA 2376000 3865100 163%
WY 3473000 3864800 111%

Total 56568000 46468800 82%

These numbers are interesting, but it is hard to make a determination for me from these numbers. I assume the "State" land includes all land that is not Federal since you are talking about initial land allocation? If so, then some states have had a small amount of land ceded to them from the Feds, but some States have ceded a lot of their own initial land allotment back to the Feds. If this is true, do we know why that land was ceded back to the Federal Gov't from the states?

If private land is not considered as "State" land, then how does that figure into the numbers?

 

[tipsntails7]

These numbers are interesting, but it is hard to make a determination for me from these numbers. I assume the "State" land includes all land that is not Federal since you are talking about initial land allocation? If so, then some states have had a small amount of land ceded to them from the Feds, but some States have ceded a lot of their own initial land allotment back to the Feds. If this is true, do we know why that land was ceded back to the Federal Gov't from the states?

If private land is not considered as "State" land, then how does that figure into the numbers?

State land is land owned by the state. Private land is not included

 

[Trial153]

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?cycle=2016&id=N00033085&type=f


http://www.caprock-partners.com/

 

[2ski]

I think sometimes its easy to hate "liberals" or "conservatives" as a group. They are a faceless entity who's "figureheads" are the people and their talking points that the media and the other side want us to see. Is your neighbor a liberal? Do you hate them? Well, you might say, "but they're a 'good' liberal". The US is made up of good liberals and good conservatives who as individuals, collectively make up their "bigger groups". But its easy to distrust that faceless group of liberals or conservatives. Not so easy to distrust your neighbor that you had a few beers with last summer after you both got done mowing the lawn. So when people say, "Liberals are this, and liberals want to do this", it easy to do because you aren't going to say, "My neighbor is a 2A rights hating liberal that wants my guns, ect." because he isn't. Tell me a good thing Hilary has done(I'm using her as an example because I think a lot of us identify as conservative so she is the other side). Or are so many so focused on the negative that they can't see the good if it bit them in the nose. In no way am I trying to convince anyone to vote for anyone. I just really detest how much hatred is in American politics currently. Social media, especially, has given any idiot with an agenda a platform to spew their views, and then they network with other idiots, and pretty soon the idiots have themselves a movement, and the only movement I'd like to see is the one where everyone walks in and sings "you can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant" and walk out. (When I started talking about movements, that's what popped into my head)

I don't really believe anyone in this election is evil. But the way they are personified and vilified, I wonder if a lot of people do believe that. And I straight up won't pull any punches there. If you tell me that one of the candidates is evil, then I'll tell you you're an idiot. Plain and simple. Get past that.

 

[go4thegusto]

When push comes to shove, public land issues are pretty far down on my list of concerns. I am for public access and disagree with any public land transfer or sell but am more concerned about liberty, personal freedoms and the 2A. If this means I have to support a guy who wants to sell public land, I will. The death of one of the most staunch supporters of the constitution should make it evident to everyone as to how easy it is for us to lose our 2A rights. I find it humorous that there is a faction of hunters who are foaming at the mouth over the sell of public lands. They are so pissed that they will support the very people that will stop them from having a weapon that would allow them to take game on said public land. Oh well.....at least we still have public land. Time to break out the granola and Birkenstocks and do some yoga at the trailhead.

Hmmm, looks like all the supporters of these public land transfers are Republicans. It all started with Paul Ryan a few years ago floating the idea and look where he sits now.

 

[woods89]

I think sometimes its easy to hate "liberals" or "conservatives" as a group. They are a faceless entity who's "figureheads" are the people and their talking points that the media and the other side want us to see. Is your neighbor a liberal? Do you hate them? Well, you might say, "but they're a 'good' liberal". The US is made up of good liberals and good conservatives who as individuals, collectively make up their "bigger groups". But its easy to distrust that faceless group of liberals or conservatives. Not so easy to distrust your neighbor that you had a few beers with last summer after you both got done mowing the lawn. So when people say, "Liberals are this, and liberals want to do this", it easy to do because you aren't going to say, "My neighbor is a 2A rights hating liberal that wants my guns, ect." because he isn't. Tell me a good thing Hilary has done(I'm using her as an example because I think a lot of us identify as conservative so she is the other side). Or are so many so focused on the negative that they can't see the good if it bit them in the nose. In no way am I trying to convince anyone to vote for anyone. I just really detest how much hatred is in American politics currently. Social media, especially, has given any idiot with an agenda a platform to spew their views, and then they network with other idiots, and pretty soon the idiots have themselves a movement, and the only movement I'd like to see is the one where everyone walks in and sings "you can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant" and walk out. (When I started talking about movements, that's what popped into my head)

I don't really believe anyone in this election is evil. But the way they are personified and vilified, I wonder if a lot of people do believe that. And I straight up won't pull any punches there. If you tell me that one of the candidates is evil, then I'll tell you you're an idiot. Plain and simple. Get past that.

This. The thing that probably chills me the most about this country right now is the hatred for the "other" people. I disagree with a lot of people I meet every day, but that doesn't mean we can't find common ground and have the decency to respect each other.

 

[Trial153]

It's over the top. Some how we have demonized consensus building and problem solving.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Yeah,

The polarized political climate is disappointing. Just in this thread, we see people go right past common ground, and seem to seek out disagreement.

Still, there has been some hope here, in that the thread remains relatively civil, without the usual devolution into flat out name-calling between posters.

This is an important issue, and I am glad hunters are discussing it. Now if we can just get the politicians on board.

 

[Trial153]

The only way we fight this is through money and influence. Same way it was brought to the table is how it needs to be taken off the table. Money and organization needs to be brought into play.

 

[2ski]

This country was built in a way that makes it fairly stable. We don't have massive changes in government from one day to the next. Really, if the next president is a republican, we won't see all that massive of a change. There will be change, but it won't be massive and it will be slow. Was gay marriage a big social change? Yeah. But it didn't do anything to effect your or my daily lives. Its not like everyone woke up the next morning and it was a massive disruption of their lives.

If President Obama is able to put a liberal judge on the Bench, there will be some changes to some things. What most likely will they be as far as 2A goes? Some sort of limit on black rifles and high capacity mags? Maybe. Some sort of background check changes? Probably. Will they be taking our guns away? No. Those two things are really the two key issues right now to most Americans. Not taking away our guns. And most Americans are for tightening up background checks. THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE US THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS. You know it, I know it. Is any system perfect? No. It seems like a lot of people argue against any expanded background checks because it won't be perfect. Nothing is perfect. You can't expect perfection out of you, your wife, your kids, your boss, me, Aron, Robbie, Becca, Luke, ect. ect. ect. We can't have a law that is perfect for a country of millions of people. We should strive to get one that is perfect. It won't be. And then we tweak it where it needs tweaking. But we have to try.

The Supreme Court has eb and flowed between liberal and conservative. It will get conservative again at some point even if Obama gets someone on the bench, and then there will probably be changes where 2A is concerned again. The fear that some seem to have of a liberal court and eventually losing our guns altogether, seems to be based on the assumption that once the court is liberal, it will always stay liberal and never go back.

 

[airlocksniffer]

This. The thing that probably chills me the most about this country right now is the hatred for the "other" people. I disagree with a lot of people I meet every day, but that doesn't mean we can't find common ground and have the decency to respect each other.

100% this. Hate and distrust don't help anything. The common narrative is always two sides, winners/losers, with or against, etc. We all have so much common ground as hunters. I think we as citizens need to step back, stop demonizing the other side, crack a beer and get to work on issues that effect us all.

C'mon guys and gals, group hug......

 

[Jason Snyder]

This country was built in a way that makes it fairly stable. We don't have massive changes in government from one day to the next. Really, if the next president is a republican, we won't see all that massive of a change. There will be change, but it won't be massive and it will be slow. Was gay marriage a big social change? Yeah. But it didn't do anything to effect your or my daily lives. Its not like everyone woke up the next morning and it was a massive disruption of their lives.

If President Obama is able to put a liberal judge on the Bench, there will be some changes to some things. What most likely will they be as far as 2A goes? Some sort of limit on black rifles and high capacity mags? Maybe. Some sort of background check changes? Probably. Will they be taking our guns away? No. Those two things are really the two key issues right now to most Americans. Not taking away our guns. And most Americans are for tightening up background checks. THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE US THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS. You know it, I know it. Is any system perfect? No. It seems like a lot of people argue against any expanded background checks because it won't be perfect. Nothing is perfect. You can't expect perfection out of you, your wife, your kids, your boss, me, Aron, Robbie, Becca, Luke, ect. ect. ect. We can't have a law that is perfect for a country of millions of people. We should strive to get one that is perfect. It won't be. And then we tweak it where it needs tweaking. But we have to try.

The Supreme Court has eb and flowed between liberal and conservative. It will get conservative again at some point even if Obama gets someone on the bench, and then there will probably be changes where 2A is concerned again. The fear that some seem to have of a liberal court and eventually losing our guns altogether, seems to be based on the assumption that once the court is liberal, it will always stay liberal and never go back.

Very well said.

 

[Trial153]

http://youtu.be/flLFQnW7CUc[video=youtube_share;flLFQnW7CUc]http://youtu.be/flLFQnW7CUc[/video]

 

[tipsntails7]

http://youtu.be/flLFQnW7CUc

whatever side of the fence you sit on is irrelevant in my eyes, but that single ad should insure that no hunter, fisherman, or outdoor enthusiast ever cast a vote for ted cruz...

pretty simple

 

[airlocksniffer]

http://youtu.be/flLFQnW7CUc

"The most punchable face in Congress."

 

[Trial153]

I am tempted to say that a candidate should use this Cruzs deplorable stance on this to line up the sportmans vote. However from the push back and ignorance that I have seen displayed by some hunters on this issue I think it might be counter productive. Honestly I have better responses from my lay friends and colleagues when talking about the issue then some hunters.

 

[twall13]

This thread has gone off topic more than once, but I've been actively following it with interest. Thank you for keeping things civil even when there are clearly disagreements. I've always found it helpful to hear other people's views, especially when they don't align with mine. Somehow hearing things from someone else's perspective helps me solidify my views on things. There have been a lot of informative posts on here that have been helpful for me and I don't think many of them would have come to my attention without the difference of opinions.