Kuiu Announcement Deleted?

[Shrek]

I haven't looked at this thread for a while, and not to stir the pot too much but... yes Kuiu is similarly priced to some other gear... if you dig a little deeper than just comparing cost you would see it is also being sold without a retail markup like some oof the other gear... correct me if I am wrong but I believe retail markup is approximately 40-50%... in theory, the fact that they do not have a retail markup allows them to use higher quality materials produced in better factories. If this is true, Kuiu's prices would be way more expensive than some other gear based on quality if they were sold with a retail business model.

Retail markup is at least 50% on clothing and even tripling the fabric cost wouldn't make up the difference. The direct to consumer model at overall market comparative pricing just means kuiu is knocking it out of the park on margins. It's a great deal for sure...for Kuiu. As for purchasing power , Kuiu doesn't have any with their main supplier. Toray basically"owns" Kuiu. Just about everything Kuiu sells is made with Toray fabric in a Toray factory. The day Toray says take a hike Kuiu is done. What's Jason going to do ? Suddenly say Toray fabric isn't the greatest fabric ever and now scholler or whoever is ? The finest ingredients must mean heaping piles of BS to baffle the weak minded. It's the treating the customers as fools and disrespecting them by guinea pigging them that turns me off.

 

[Mad Mountain Mike]

Wow, I'm obviously not as well informed as a lot of guys on this board. I'm just a simple man but I know what works for me. Last year I trust my life in the limited Kuiu gear that I own. The Guide jacket and Super Down jacket performed flawlessly in some pretty nasty weather, this year the Yukon jacket gets the nod in place of the Guide. With 50 plus days in the field since New Years I have absolutely no complaints ( except I'm still waiting for the gaiters ).

 

[PJG]

Hey Guys,

I've been in the wilderness a lot the last month and just got back from another trip, so I apologize for not addressing these questions/issues earlier.

Here goes:

The Rokslide owners have (and will continue) to keep Kuiu threads up on the forums, but they need to stay somewhat POSITIVE! So I'm asking all of you (especially the haters), to only post first hand knowledge of the product. THIS MEANS YOU SHOULD NOT POST COMMENTS IN A KUIU THREAD IF YOU HAVE NOT USED THEIR GEAR.

In one of the earlier posts, someone asked why a Kuiu employe can not post on Rokslide about Kuiu products. This question has a very simple answer; anyone affiliated with a company that posts on the forums needs to be a sponsor. This isn't just for Kuiu, but any company. This rule is nothing new to Rokslide or forums in general. This, however, does not mean that they can't post on Rokslide about other subjects, but they will not be able to promote or answer questions about the company they work for. This rule isn't exclusive to Rokslide, but for any and all forums.

I don't have time for babysitting and the other moderators don't either. It seems like each time I come back from a backpacking trip I have a PM box full of anti and pro Kuiu comments about some post on the forums. We/I can understand your passion about a company that you believe in, but lets try and keep that passion pointing in a positive direction

Just about anyone that has called me for info on gear will tell you that I'm a pretty straight shooter (expect for the haters), so the comments about "Aron only promotes the companies he works with" is not true. I will obviously be more passionate about those companies, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to talk about all products when questioned. I can understand how some of you would THINK that, but if you've actually talked to me on the phone or in person, you will find that all gear is discussed.

So I'm asking all of you.......PLEASE STOP THIS SHIT ASAP AND TRY AND KEEP THE FORUMS A HAPPY PLACE TO HANG OUT ON!

I would really appreciate help from all the members on this and hope we can move forward in a positive direction!

Thanks again for being a Rokslide member!

^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[cuerro viejo]

Not to stir the pot but this is exactly what I'm sick of. This is just not realistic. I understand what they say would be the case but I'm not naive enough to buy into this. And this is what is shoved down everyone's throat and apart from the raingear it's not true. So the merino would be 130ish, the attacks would be just under 200. It wouldn't happen. He just dropped the prices on some gear because he could get better pricing because of the amount those particular items sold. Guess what would happen if he went to retail? The same thing. Price would drop then you would have the markup and we would be right back to the same price point we are now.
All this is taking into account the fact that you think toray is that much better then anything on the market. I personally do not. Is it top of the line stuff? Sure. But other manufacturers make stuff that is just as good. They fool you into thinking your getting a deal because the material is supposedly so much better. It's like macys and their 40% off sales that are constant. I would never pay 30 dollars for a white cotton shirt. Luckily it's always on sale at the great price of 8.99.

Get my drift?

After being in the industry I see it in some products they sale but not all.

On your rainwear for sure see the discount. See a little of it on the merino, gaitors and pants. Branded stuff and hats full mark up but to be fair most of that stuff he is buying from wholeseller any way do to low quantity. No different then if you or I order under 1k hats.

With out knowing his total sales numbers its hard really to figure what price breaks he is truely getting. I also have a feeling its not near what we think do to territory protection.
His mfg pricing shifted down some but not much by moving mfg overseas. Overseas is still cheaper than the states but not by as much as people think. Espeically with low US dollar value. Biggest advantage is quantity.

His strategy is interesting do to the ultra high stocking rates and varied delivery schedules. It also eats up a ton of profit. Most clothing MFG have 90% of their products pre-booked/sold a year in advance.

I also have a feeling he has competition agreement timeline with Toray. Europe clothing MFG's are all over Toray, but very few US. Makes me think he locked in a price for exclusive use for x time frame of some of the fabrics

 

[Shrek]

MMM , I don't think anyone denies that Kuiu sells some really nice clothes.

 

[GFY]

^^ I just fell out of my chair.

 

[idig4au]

The natural evolution of an internet forum.

Starts out small, usually like minded individuals with ACTUAL experience.
Than word gets out, the forum gets popular (usually coincides with the forums main topic of emphasis getting popular) and more and more people flock to it.
The BS starts getting deep, drama ensues, big pecker contests among internet tough guys, internet experts, young guys feeling their oats, and just plain idiots get more common.
The original group of guys with ACTUAL experience post less and less, and eventually go away.
The forum eventually dies, or defies the laws of nature and continues on as just a BS fest circle jerk dominated by chest thumping and pecker comparisons.

Its the circle of internet life. Seen it happen to more than one forum.

Well said indeed! Getting tired of all the subject matter experts on here. This forum is not the same as it was 2 years ago.

 

[voidecho]

The finest ingredients must mean heaping piles of BS to baffle the weak minded.

MMM , I don't think anyone denies that Kuiu sells some really nice clothes.

I'm confused.

 

[2ski]

His strategy is interesting do to the ultra high stocking rates and varied delivery schedules. It also eats up a ton of profit. Most clothing MFG have 90% of their products pre-booked/sold a year in advance.

I think this is a really good point. It works for a company like Kifaru that manufactures here in the states to have stuff made when you need it. I think a weekness of Kuiu's is not having a lot of product on hand and having the wait times that people have sometimes. Now if he did do that it would raise the retail of the product because he would have to take out a loan in the interm and have to pay off the interest through is margins he makes off of sales. Also, would quality go down as a result of a factory having to put out a greater amount in a short term. The way he does it now, where if times were equal in the manufacturing process to Kifaru, the weekness of the Kuiu model is adding the additional time for shipping to the States as well as the time that it takes to clear customs. For a lot of companies, its once we're out we're out.

 

[Browtine]

In deference to my fellow Roksliders I'll try to lay off the company I love to hate.

I guess it's a start. You made it 5 whole days before you Shreked on Kuiu again.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I think this is a really good point. It works for a company like Kifaru that manufactures here in the states to have stuff made when you need it. I think a weekness of Kuiu's is not having a lot of product on hand and having the wait times that people have sometimes. Now if he did do that it would raise the retail of the product because he would have to take out a loan in the interm and have to pay off the interest through is margins he makes off of sales. Also, would quality go down as a result of a factory having to put out a greater amount in a short term. The way he does it now, where if times were equal in the manufacturing process to Kifaru, the weekness of the Kuiu model is adding the additional time for shipping to the States as well as the time that it takes to clear customs. For a lot of companies, its once we're out we're out.

I'd sure like to meet his advisors its a hell of a team. I can only think of one speciality clothing MFG that has survived that much initial growth and success, and that UA. Even then UA follows the traditional model.

 

[tipsntails7]

I'd sure like to meet his advisors its a hell of a team. I can only think of one speciality clothing MFG that has survived that much initial growth and success, and that UA. Even then UA follows the traditional model.

The growth of Kuiu pails in comparison to UA. its mind boggling what UA went through. luckily I bought stock before it happened. one of the only good decisions ive made in stocks in a while. I would be interested to know how much growth kuiu really has gone through. The sew houses would do fine with an increase. people need to realize they are being sewn at the same place Sitka, kryptek, arcyteryx I beleive along with other outdoor gear. what makes kuiu successful is the cult like following and the incredible advertising/PR machine that they have built. they have convinced people to wait 6-8 months for products, convinced people to Preorder items without ever even seeing them and convinced people that if its not kuiu its second rate.

2Ski what you think is a weakness is actually what may be one of their greatest strengths. small supply with comparatively large demand. and once something is in stock people step over themselves to try and get it. it reminds me a lot of the Basketball sneaker culture that nike and Jordan have built. you better get it now because who knows when it will be available again.

 

[cuerro viejo]

The growth of Kuiu pails in comparison to UA. its mind boggling what UA went through. luckily I bought stock before it happened. one of the only good decisions ive made in stocks in a while. I would be interested to know how much growth kuiu really has gone through. The sew houses would do fine with an increase. people need to realize they are being sewn at the same place Sitka, kryptek, arcyteryx I beleive along with other outdoor gear. what makes kuiu successful is the cult like following and the incredible advertising/PR machine that they have built. they have convinced people to wait 6-8 months for products, convinced people to Preorder items without ever even seeing them and convinced people that if its not kuiu its second rate.

2Ski what you think is a weakness is actually what may be one of their greatest strengths. small supply with comparatively large demand. and once something is in stock people step over themselves to try and get it. it reminds me a lot of the Basketball sneaker culture that nike and Jordan have built. you better get it now because who knows when it will be available again.

You have it remember it took UA 4 years to do what kuiu did in less than two. Took UA 3 years just to break 100k. Now after year 5 they exploded after they got a NFL contract and they have never looked back. Very rare does a company go o-2billion in revenue under 20 years especially in clothing. UA is an extremely impressive company last 12 years.

And every says college football players are dumb

 

[tipsntails7]

You have it remember it took UA 4 years to do what kuiu did in less than two. Took UA 3 years just to break 100k. Now after year 5 they exploded after they got a NFL contract and they have never looked back. Very rare does a company go o-2billion in revenue under 20 years especially in clothing. UA is an extremely impressive company last 12 years.

And every says college football players are dumb

your right but kuiu started with a little more in their corner. including not trying to change the entire culture of athletic baselayer apparel. kuiu also had Jason to hang their hat on and his success with Sitka. UA was literally selling one shirt.. well 2 if you want to count the cutoff. Kuiu wentinto a market that was at the beginning of an uprise with technical fabrics and gear. UA had to claw it away from nike by convincing highschool and college kids tp spend 40 bucks on a shirt when the 5 dollar cotton cut off was king. both companies are doing extremely well obviously. I just think UA had a much tougher plow. the problem is Kuiu has nowhere to expand to. their market is their market. top end hunting. UA went from an athletic baselayer company to literally every apparel sector imaginable. I predict kuiu will continue to grow but at a substantially slower rate. the market share for hunting is already a small sector, combine that with the even smaller amount of people willing to pay 75 dollars for a single shirt or 130 bucks for pants.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Kuiu will never be a UA, just via product. But none the less both early years are/were impressive. That kind of growth usually kills a company.

UA succes is very interesting and exciting at the same time. Was fun watching them grow. I'm actually interested in what their fall line will be this year, unfortantly I didn't get to preview it last selling season.

 

[mt hunter22]

wowsa.. i have the kuiu tiburon pants and the bino harness. good prices,the pants are the best early season, lightweight pant i have worn and the bino harness i wouldnt trade for any other on the market.. this is my experience with kuiu so far..

 

[boom]

wowsa.. i have the kuiu tiburon pants and the bino harness. good prices,the pants are the best early season, lightweight pant i have worn and the bino harness i wouldnt trade for any other on the market.. this is my experience with kuiu so far..

I'm gonna try those pants as backpack pants.

 

[mt hunter22]

they are super light. i was afraid they were going to tear easy but so far with some nevada and montana hunting they are still doing fine,, although i will say that at least for me they are only a warm weather pant,once it starts getting cool i switch.

 

[JNDEER]

they are super light. i was afraid they were going to tear easy but so far with some nevada and montana hunting they are still doing fine,, although i will say that at least for me they are only a warm weather pant,once it starts getting cool i switch.

Yep, hands down the best hot weather pants on the market. But, I only have 45+ days or so afield with them.

 

[brewer427]

I will disagree that test don't lie. Especially with waterproof tests. There is so much inconsistency in the industry regarding this it's tuff to really tell anything anymore. Until all pieces are independently tested with the same test then everything is circumstantial.

Here's a Rokslide test of some rain jackets that I thought was very well tested. http://www.rokslide.com/2012-01-09-...let-it-rain-light-weight-rain-jacket-shootout

When you see reviews and tests I think you need to look at who was the person or company performing the tests and make your own judgment by what you know of that person or company. If you know nothing about them, then like anything, sometimes when you buy products nothing is guaranteed until you try them out personally and put them through there paces personally.

I have a little of FL, some Sitka and a lot of KUIU. I have personally tested KUIU out a lot while hunting and fishing. I can honestly say that for me personally I love all my KUIU gear because the fit and looks is what I like over all the other gear. Just because people have gear that they love and works great for them, does not mean it's going to work great for everyone else. If it did you wouldn't have all the different companies out there that you do today.