Kuiu Announcement Deleted?

[Ben]

I think alot of people feel this way, which I don't blame you for.. My friend bought Kuiu merino because it is cheaper and he's a pretty broke kid lol.. Other companies like First Lite do cost a little more, but you really do get what you pay for..

I have both Kuiu and FL merino and if you hold them up next to each other and wear them both there is no question whatsoever which is made better..

With Kuiu you also don't get products that live up to their advertised specs.. Do you really think the Chugach or Yukon Jackets are 20,000mm/40,000gm2 breathable?

Besides that, I'm picky about where I shop from (for anything). I don't just look at the prices only, I look at all the other factors involved. To me it's similar to why I don't shop at Walmart. They are the cheapest on the block but I don't like their business model or attitude, where their products come from, where their campaign contributions go to, etc.

Those are just a couple of the many reasons why I don't mind spending the extra $20 here and there..

I've tried on Firstlite clothing as loved it. If I could afford it I would buy over Kuiu. And, when I can afford it, I will buy it. I also tend to watch where my money goes and do avoid Walmart as well. I know I sound like a huge hypocrite but I am just a college kid trying to get in the woods.

On that note, if anyone has any Firstlite gear for sale let me know!

 

[cuerro viejo]

I think alot of people feel this way, which I don't blame you for.. My friend bought Kuiu merino because it is cheaper and he's a pretty broke kid lol.. Other companies like First Lite do cost a little more, but you really do get what you pay for..

I have both Kuiu and FL merino and if you hold them up next to each other and wear them both there is no question whatsoever which is made better..

With Kuiu you also don't get products that live up to their advertised specs.. Do you really think the Chugach or Yukon Jackets are 20,000mm/40,000gm2 breathable?

Besides that, I'm picky about where I shop from (for anything). I don't just look at the prices only, I look at all the other factors involved. To me it's similar to why I don't shop at Walmart. They are the cheapest on the block but I don't like their business model or attitude, where their products come from, where their campaign contributions go to, etc.

Those are just a couple of the many reasons why I don't mind spending the extra $20 here and there..

I'd sure like to see you actual scientific findings, numbers and which method you used... slandering Toray for lying is kind of funny, even though it was a shot at Kuiu, its really a shot at Toray.

Toray and Cocona both offer GREAT fabrics/products that have with stood independent test results.

Tests(and there is a bunch of different methodolgies)don't lie, but there is no test for approx field use. Each human reacts differently to different weather variables. .humidity, heat, etc.

Don't let your distaste for a particular clothing line company cloud your opinion on technology that's helping the entire industry and ultimately we as the consumer.

 

[tipsntails7]

The only reason I buy kuiu is because of costs and I've always been happy with my purchase (except for the icon hat). I just have a hard time ordering from company A when a very similar product is offered by kuiu for a significant amount less. Saving 20 bucks here and there really helps.

Honesty I think this is more marketing at work then anything else. Kuiu is inline with everything else cost wise. It's actually more expensive if you buy full price. You can find sitka, FL and kryptek on sale all the time. Heck I had to stop looking at S&S archery because the stormtight was 175 shipped. That's a steal. If your a broke kid which I was not long ago you should be shopping at cabelas bargin cave or camofire. You don't need Kuiu, FL or anyof that to hunt. Heck a Llano top is worth more then a lot of my hunting outfits combined. You would be better served hunting in cotton and putting gas in the rig every weekend then acquiring quality gear and only getting out once a month.

 

[tipsntails7]

I'd sure like to see you actual scientific findings, numbers and which method you used... slandering Toray for lying is kind of funny, even though it was a shot at Kuiu, its really a shot at Toray.

Toray and Cocona both offer GREAT fabrics/products that have with stood independent test results.

Tests(and there is a bunch of different methodolgies)don't lie, but there is no test for approx field use. Each human reacts differently to different weather variables. .humidity, heat, etc.

Don't let your distaste for a particular clothing line company cloud your opinion on technology that's helping the entire industry and ultimately we as the consumer.

I will disagree that test don't lie. Especially with waterproof tests. There is so much inconsistency in the industry regarding this it's tuff to really tell anything anymore. Until all pieces are independently tested with the same test then everything is circumstantial.

 

[jm1607]

I'd sure like to see you actual scientific findings, numbers and which method you used... slandering Toray for lying is kind of funny, even though it was a shot at Kuiu, its really a shot at Toray.

Toray and Cocona both offer GREAT fabrics/products that have with stood independent test results.

Tests(and there is a bunch of different methodolgies)don't lie, but there is no test for approx field use. Each human reacts differently to different weather variables. .humidity, heat, etc.

Don't let your distaste for a particular clothing line company cloud your opinion on technology that's helping the entire industry and ultimately we as the consumer.

It has nothing to do with Toray or Cocona, it has to do with Kuiu and the fabric after the camo is printed on it. I doubt Kuiu did any sort of scientific testing on their final post-printed on products. If they did there would be no way to claim the numbers they did.

Tests lie. Most tests are biased in some way, it's just how biased are they. If Fox News and CNN both did a test to see if there is such thing as global warming using the exact same data and methods, I have a feeling they will get completely different results..

 

[realunlucky]

I'd sure like to see you actual scientific findings, numbers and which method you used... slandering Toray for lying is kind of funny, even though it was a shot at Kuiu, its really a shot at Toray.

Toray and Cocona both offer GREAT fabrics/products that have with stood independent test results.

Tests(and there is a bunch of different methodolgies)don't lie, but there is no test for approx field use. Each human reacts differently to different weather variables. .humidity, heat, etc.

Don't let your distaste for a particular clothing line company cloud your opinion on technology that's helping the entire industry and ultimately we as the consumer.

This is it right here if you buy into the testing. As stated no standard so anyone can claim anything depending on who and how they test. This the typical derail of all these threads. At the end of the day and you support who you think is innovating the industry that's great. I believe it's mostly hype to drive sells and it seems to work great and hunters continually try and get an edge on one another

 

[gelton]

Here is an excellent article from Patagonia on MVTR "tests" and how inaccurate they are. They sent the same piece of fabric to six different testing labs and got back six different results. Then resubmitted the same piece to the same company and got another different rating. So, no, I don't believe that Yukon or Chugachs ratings are real, but I also don't think that bogus ratings are exclusive to Toray or Kuiu either - its an industry problem.

Great article that proves that fabric tests lie - http://www.thecleanestline.com/2008/07/from-the-pct-to.html

"It turns out that obtaining an accurate MVTR is incredibly difficult. When Patagonia first decided to test the breathability of our fabrics, we chose six different fabric labs around the world and sent off a piece of fabric cut from the same bolt to each lab. When the results came back it was both disappointing and enlightening. All six results were substantially different, so much so that you’d have sworn they tested different fabrics. The Quality Team then went one step further; they took the exact same piece of fabric and sent it back to the exact same lab to be retested. Wouldn’t you know it, the second laboratory tests did not reliably match the first set. Obviously, if independent laboratories couldn't provide similar results from the exact same fabric, comparisons between different fabrics (and brands) were impossible. This discrepancy is the reason we don't publish hard and fast numbers; any comparison with other fabrics would be meaningless. Anyone picking a product based on one published number is putting a lot of faith in a marketing team and an unknown lab."

 

[Ben]

It's actually more expensive if you buy full price.

Really? FL Llano QZ, ASAT, Medium: $110. Kuiu 145, Vias, Large: ~$60. Kuiu 185, Vias, Large: ~$70.

(To find the Kuiu price I added 30% onto the current sale price to compensate)

 

[cuerro viejo]

Those tests don't lie, they just measure stuff differently... that's the point I'm trying to make.

Calling Toray's JIS-L 1099 B 1 test results a lie, is a slanderous statement especially when your soley trying to discredit Kuiu and when you have zero idea what you are actually comparing.

Which test did 37.5/cocona use for MVTR rating?

Point is both are great technical fabric companies and thier products will test true. Both are bringing technology to us that we would of likely never seen if the owners of Kuiu and Firstlite had been under WL Gore thumb.

Both owners are doing great things for consumers, they both are passionate about helping us and providing gear that fits are individual needs.

1O years ago we basically had to cross pollinate, mix and match gear from different climbing and hunting companies. Now we have 5 plus hunting based companies focusing on our backcountry needs. This is a great thing and I hope the trend continues. We consumers need all the company market share competition we can get!

 

[cuerro viejo]

It has nothing to do with Toray or Cocona, it has to do with Kuiu and the fabric after the camo is printed on it. I doubt Kuiu did any sort of scientific testing on their final post-printed on products. If they did there would be no way to claim the numbers they did.

Tests lie. Most tests are biased in some way, it's just how biased are they. If Fox News and CNN both did a test to see if there is such thing as global warming using the exact same data and methods, I have a feeling they will get completely different results..

Lol as I said your trying to take a shot at kuiu. Did firstlite test theirs with camo print?

 

[tipsntails7]

Really? FL Llano QZ, ASAT, Medium: $110. Kuiu 145, Vias, Large: ~$60. Kuiu 185, Vias, Large: ~$70.

(To find the Kuiu price I added 30% onto the current sale price to compensate)

You need to find a new place to buy FL if your paying that. I can get FL for 85- 90 to my door. Kuiu 185 is 75, add 10 for shipping and boom same price. Kuiu actually costs more if you live in Cali. Man how I hate tax. Not saying it's not good stuff, I'm just tired of hearing Kuiu is a better product for cheaper. It's not. Buy it because you like it. Not because you think your getting a deal.

 

[tipsntails7]

Those tests don't lie, they just measure stuff differently... that's the point I'm trying to make.

Calling Toray's JIS-L 1099 B 1 test results a lie, is a slanderous statement especially when your soley trying to discredit Kuiu and when you have zero idea what you are actually comparing.

Which test did 37.5/cocona use for MVTR rating?

Point is both are great technical fabric companies and thier products will test true. Both are bringing technology to us that we would of likely never seen if the owners of Kuiu and Firstlite had been under WL Gore thumb.

Both owners are doing great things for consumers, they both are passionate about helping us and providing gear that fits are individual needs.

1O years ago we basically had to cross pollinate, mix and match gear from different climbing and hunting companies. Now we have 5 plus hunting based companies focusing on our backcountry needs. This is a great thing and I hope the trend continues. We consumers need all the company market share competition we can get!

Good stuff right here. I believe it was said somewhere here that FL and Kryptek either take the average Or the low number I cannot remember exactly. I believe Aron said it as well but again don't quote me because I cannot find the exact post

 

[jlsteel]

You need to find a new place to buy FL if your paying that. I can get FL for 85- 90 to my door. Kuiu 185 is 75, add 10 for shipping and boom same price. Kuiu actually costs more if you live in Cali. Man how I hate tax. Not saying it's not good stuff, I'm just tired of hearing Kuiu is a better product for cheaper. It's not. Buy it because you like it. Not because you think your getting a deal.

Apparently I need to find a new place to buy FL. I'm paying the prices Ben stated plus $10 shipping.

 

[jlsteel]

I wonder why Kuiu merino is in the outlet. Are they introducing a whole new merino/baselayer lineup?

 

[ckleeves]

I wonder why Kuiu merino is in the outlet. Are they introducing a whole new merino/baselayer lineup?

I hope they are working on some synthetic stuff.

 

[Ben]

You need to find a new place to buy FL if your paying that. I can get FL for 85- 90 to my door. Kuiu 185 is 75, add 10 for shipping and boom same price. Kuiu actually costs more if you live in Cali. Man how I hate tax. Not saying it's not good stuff, I'm just tired of hearing Kuiu is a better product for cheaper. It's not. Buy it because you like it. Not because you think your getting a deal.

Those prices were off of the FL website. I watch the online retailers as well and have yet to see a FL Llano QZ for $85. It would be greatly appreciated if you provided the website.

 

[tipsntails7]

Those prices were off of the FL website. I watch the online retailers as well and have yet to see a FL Llano QZ for $85. It would be greatly appreciated if you provided the website.

Well I don't want you guys buying up all m FL now

The Qz won't be that cheap. I get the regular llano. Look up diggs outdoors. He has free shipping in the US and if you sign up for his email or mailing list he sends out discounts as well. Diggs10 is almost always valid so you get 10% off plus free shipping. I've seen 20% though as well. He's a great guy to deal with and has very fast shipping as well. I've bought all my FL stuff from him except the puffy. Keep in mind he is a fairly small vendor so belay not always have what your looking for, but me I'm not picky with color. You can get his stuff off ebay as well. Llano QZ for94.95

 

[tipsntails7]

I wonder why Kuiu merino is in the outlet. Are they introducing a whole new merino/baselayer lineup?

I'm just guessing but I know they altered the camo patterns slightly so may be clearing out for the new stuff.

 

[rodney.black]

Honesty I think this is more marketing at work then anything else. Kuiu is inline with everything else cost wise. It's actually more expensive if you buy full price. You can find sitka, FL and kryptek on sale all the time.

I haven't looked at this thread for a while, and not to stir the pot too much but... yes Kuiu is similarly priced to some other gear... if you dig a little deeper than just comparing cost you would see it is also being sold without a retail markup like some of the other gear... correct me if I am wrong but I believe retail markup is approximately 40-50%... in theory, the fact that they do not have a retail markup allows them to use higher quality materials produced in better factories. If this is true, Kuiu's prices would be way more expensive than some other gear based on quality if they were sold with a retail business model.

 

[tipsntails7]

I haven't looked at this thread for a while, and not to stir the pot too much but... yes Kuiu is similarly priced to some other gear... if you dig a little deeper than just comparing cost you would see it is also being sold without a retail markup like some of the other gear... correct me if I am wrong but I believe retail markup is approximately 40-50%... in theory, the fact that they do not have a retail markup allows them to use higher quality materials produced in better factories. If this is true, Kuiu's prices would be way more expensive than some other gear based on quality if they were sold with a retail business model.

Not to stir the pot but this is exactly what I'm sick of. This is just not realistic. I understand what they say would be the case but I'm not naive enough to buy into this. And this is what is shoved down everyone's throat and apart from the raingear it's not true. So the merino would be 130ish, the attacks would be just under 200. It wouldn't happen. He just dropped the prices on some gear because he could get better pricing because of the amount those particular items sold. Guess what would happen if he went to retail? The same thing. Price would drop then you would have the markup and we would be right back to the same price point we are now.

All this is taking into account the fact that you think toray is that much better then anything on the market. I personally do not. Is it top of the line stuff? Sure. But other manufacturers make stuff that is just as good. They fool you into thinking your getting a deal because the material is supposedly so much better. It's like macys and their 40% off sales that are constant. I would never pay 30 dollars for a white cotton shirt. Luckily it's always on sale at the great price of 8.99.

Get my drift?