Kimber Montana vs. Tikka T3x Superlite vs. Savage 16 LWH (308)

[GKPrice]

I'm wondering if it'll be possible to return it for a full refund, if it comes to that.

OR you could send it to JES reboring just 40 miles south of me and have him make a 338 Federal or 358 Winchester out of it

 

[Trial153]

Seriously ?? It's a brand new out of the box MOA guaranteed rifle !

Yes seriously. He has a gun that doesn't shoot worth a shit that he paid a hefty price for and then wasted couple hundred in factory ammo. I would trade that headache and its RA number for a T3x and less aggravation.

 

[GKPrice]

Yes seriously. He has a gun that doesn't shoot worth a shit that he paid a hefty price for and then wasted couple hundred in factory ammo. I would trade that headache and its RA number for a T3x and less aggravation.

the only rifles I own are Kimbers and Tikkas and I would not do that

 

[luke moffat]

Just went a store that had a box of Barnes Vortex ammo (150gr variety). I'm going to try that next time and see what happens.

This will sound whiny, but the whole point of this was to have a rifle that I didn't have to reload for to get it to shoot. If I shoot that Superlite and it really impresses me, this thing is gone. I have a set of dies for 308 that I reload using already; just didn't want to have to reload hunting ammo and work up a load. However, ironically, I've already put as much time into experimentation with different kinds of factory ammo as it would have taken to work up a hunting load.

I do like the lightweight-ness of the rig though. Just held a Savage 16 Weather Warrior in 338 and a Tikka T3 Lite in 300wm at a gunstore, and they were considerably heavier feeling than the Kimber; it really does feel nice in the hands, the way it's set up.

If you do get a Tikka and want to off load the Kimber let me know

 

[Trial153]

the only rifles I own are Kimbers and Tikkas and I would not do that

Yea well it seems all the expert advise given in this tread hasn't panned out too well for the guy. Considering the OP sunk a good chunk of change into a dud of a rifle, and even more time money and ammo then should be reasonably expected, maybe some common sense nonexpert advice will work out better.
The only thing I would change to original dump it and buy a tikka suggestion would be to send it back and hope a new one is shipped in its stead...then dump the new one unfired and buy the tikka to soften the loss up.

 

[ReddingArcher]

I'm by no means an expert, but did you do any barrel break in? Or straight into 3 shot groups? I know some people say it doesn't matter, and I have only done a break in on a couple rifles but those rifles shoot incredibly well. Could be just a coincidence though. On barrel break in on my newest tikka it shot a 3 shot group with cleaning in between shots into just over a quarter inch. How many rounds down the pipe do you have on this gun? Could be the gun tightens up after 75-100 rounds. It looks to me like your gun shoots those federal 150's a little better than the other stuff, like GKPrice said I'd try a couple other flavors in 150 to see what happens. Hope it works out!

 

[Rorschach]

I think Trial is seeing this kind of the way I'm seeing it at this point.

Per the criteria stated back towards the beginning of the thread for what constitutes a "failure" for this undertaking, this has been a total failure. I've put a bunch of time and money into this, to find out that the rifle won't shoot. I do believe it's simple as that.

Not interested in spending what I'd guesstimate at this point will end up being months attempting to get this rifle to shoot by cooperating with Kimber; the whole point was something along the lines of putting a little more money into what should have been a nicer factory rifle (now, we can argue about what 'nicer' means, but for me it has very little to do with "fit and finish" if the rifle can't hold a group, or even meet its own "guarantee") and getting a rifle that would shoot better than MOA out of the box.

I'll call Kimber CS, of course, and see what they say, but I'm growing very impatient with messing with this rifle. Not interested in getting it rebored for a caliber I don't already have any rifle in, etc. If it won't shoot with 8 or 9 types of the most commonly available factory ammo, it's not what I'd call a "shooter" in any sense of the word, and I have a hard time understanding how any could.

Luke - I may very well be offloading this guy soon enough. I expect a fair price since so many are raving about what great rifles Kimbers are, and this one only has 67 rounds down the pipe!

I've got a Tikka in my possession now to try the same experiment with, or something similar. We'll see how that turns out.

I just don't have time nor desire to 'tinker' with a $1200 guaranteed-MOA rifle to get it to shoot.

 

[luke moffat]

Haha I wasn't raving anything...I clearly said everyone I have found I could reload something less than an inch for each one I have. I also stated I am happy with 1.5 MOA. I didn't mislead you in anyway. But yeah depends on what you deem a fair price.

 

[luke moffat]

I have owned 4 Kimbers all shot atleast something better than 1.5" which is plenty as I don't shoot beyond 400 yards. They are the most expensive option but they are also by far the lightest. With your budget of $1900 I would just get a Kimber Mountain ascent with a leupold VX-2 3-9x40 and have a rifle that weighs all up with ring s and a scope about what the Tikka and Savage weigh in at naked.

I also like the 308 wi. As well have seen it used to efficiently kill everything up here I Alaska including moose, grizzlies, and brown bear. In fact of all the critters I have seen shot up here even with magnums I can't think of a time when the 308 wouldn't have worked just as well.


In reality any of the 3 rifles you mentioned will feel like a feather compared to your current rig. All will work just fine it has more to do with your preference. As stated above the Tikka long action only makes me want a 30-06 in that action just cause there is no gain going short action in a Tikka. Good luck in your search.

Not exactly "raving". This was my first post in the thread.

 

[Rorschach]

You're right - you did say clearly that you'd be fine with a 1.5" rifle. Sorry about that, I will edit my post to be more respectful with my words.

 

[luke moffat]

You're right - you did say clearly that you'd be fine with a 1.5" rifle. Sorry about that, I will edit my post to be more respectful with my words.

I was being straight up with my expectations for accuracy being less than many yet some how I manage to kill stuff just fine. I do a fair bit of hunting and carrying my rifle in the field much more than punch paper as such 1.5" groups are fine for me.

If the difference between 1" and 1.5" is more important than how a rifle handles and carries and you aren't willing to try to handload to get a Kimber there then it may not be for you. Yet some how given the distances you stated you hunt and if you ask yourself how far you have killed most your animals then I would bet those federal 150s would do everything you need.

H

 

[Rorschach]

Luke, good observations/conclusions, man. And at this point, I'm not willing to settle for 1.5". It may be one of those things that, as someone else said earlier, I eventually regret, but I'd rather carry an extra pound yet have a 1" rifle, than to save a pound.

I still have yet a little bit of experimenting to go, but it doesn't look like any kind of corner is being turned with the Kimber. We'll see what happens though. I've got a box of ammo I've not shot any rounds from (Barnes), and I've not given the barrel a good scrub-down, at least to remove the powder.

If nothing else, this thread has been a good journal of exactly what my expectations and experience were with the rifle, and so can possibly serve to assist others going down the same or a similar route.

 

[AK Troutbum]

OK, I'll go ahead and throw my hat in the ring here as well, realizing that Luke has first dibs, I may be interested in this rifle as well, depending on what you think is fair and whether or not Luke wants it. .308 is a caliber that I have never owned but I've always been interested in. Here are three target pictures, of some of the first rounds fired from the 3 Kimber's that I currently own. All, using factory ammo, and some of which, using the cheapest factory ammo.
.300WSM Montana circa 2005

.280AI Montana bought used in early 2016.

.270 win Kimber mountain ascent bought new in 2016

I'm sure these rifles will shoot much better than that with a shooter more competent than myself (probably the majority of shooters out there). Again, I guess I'm a bit of a gambling man and I would definitely be willing to take a gamble on your rifle as stated in the conditions above, although I really hope that you're able to get it figured out.


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[Yellowknife]

Before you sell it, stick a proven scope on it for one group. With the amount of inconsistency and walking around the target you are seeing, it could easily be the scope. Would stink to sell a good rifle to due to a bad scope.

Alternatively, if you are mounting that same scope on the Tikka, and have similar problems, you will know what's up.

Yk


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[Rorschach]

100%, yellow. I will put it on the Tikka and try it there.

I'm also open to it just being me that sucks at shooting. I don't think that's likely at this point, but if Bum took it and shot 0.5" groups with it, I'm totally willing to chow down on some humble pie.

 

[Jason Snyder]

100%, yellow. I will put it on the Tikka and try it there.

I'm also open to it just being me that sucks at shooting. I don't think that's likely at this point, but if Bum took it and shot 0.5" groups with it, I'm totally willing to chow down on some humble pie.

I'm curious as to your comments about crosshairs movement. In all honesty, that has me wondering a little bit about the nut behind the trigger. I can tell you when I executed a perfect trigger press, but I couldn't give you the amount of crosshair movement guarantee.


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[GKPrice]

Yea well it seems all the expert advise given in this tread hasn't panned out too well for the guy. Considering the OP sunk a good chunk of change into a dud of a rifle, and even more time money and ammo then should be reasonably expected, maybe some common sense nonexpert advice will work out better.
The only thing I would change to original dump it and buy a tikka suggestion would be to send it back and hope a new one is shipped in its stead...then dump the new one unfired and buy the tikka to soften the loss up.

pretty easy to say when it's not your money I'd say

 

[GKPrice]

I think Trial is seeing this kind of the way I'm seeing it at this point.

Per the criteria stated back towards the beginning of the thread for what constitutes a "failure" for this undertaking, this has been a total failure. I've put a bunch of time and money into this, to find out that the rifle won't shoot. I do believe it's simple as that.

Not interested in spending what I'd guesstimate at this point will end up being months attempting to get this rifle to shoot by cooperating with Kimber; the whole point was something along the lines of putting a little more money into what should have been a nicer factory rifle (now, we can argue about what 'nicer' means, but for me it has very little to do with "fit and finish" if the rifle can't hold a group, or even meet its own "guarantee") and getting a rifle that would shoot better than MOA out of the box.

I'll call Kimber CS, of course, and see what they say, but I'm growing very impatient with messing with this rifle. Not interested in getting it rebored for a caliber I don't already have any rifle in, etc. If it won't shoot with 8 or 9 types of the most commonly available factory ammo, it's not what I'd call a "shooter" in any sense of the word, and I have a hard time understanding how any could.

Luke - I may very well be offloading this guy soon enough. I expect a fair price since so many are raving about what great rifles Kimbers are, and this one only has 67 rounds down the pipe!

I've got a Tikka in my possession now to try the same experiment with, or something similar. We'll see how that turns out.

I just don't have time nor desire to 'tinker' with a $1200 guaranteed-MOA rifle to get it to shoot.

with all due respect Rorschach, I know "others" don't seem to have a problem with selling a nonperformer to some unexpecting buyer but I do and have no respect for someone who would do so "if" you do "dump it" ,IMO it would only be honest to detail in the description what has been tried and the results - I for one don't feel you are being objective but then you are being flooded with "expert" advice - If you don't send it back to Kimber you're not only being unfair to yourself but Kimber also, a guarantee is only as good as the chance to fulfill it, unless I'm mistaken and you have been consulting Kimber right along - I've had enough Kimbers in my possession to dare say either there is something wrong with your process or the gun, neither has been proven out by my estimation but, like I stated, It's your money and time, do what you will with it, that's your business

 

[GKPrice]

Before you sell it, stick a proven scope on it for one group. With the amount of inconsistency and walking around the target you are seeing, it could easily be the scope. Would stink to sell a good rifle to due to a bad scope.

Alternatively, if you are mounting that same scope on the Tikka, and have similar problems, you will know what's up.

Yk


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that's good advice from another well meaning Rokslider ........

 

[GKPrice]

Luke, good observations/conclusions, man. And at this point, I'm not willing to settle for 1.5". It may be one of those things that, as someone else said earlier, I eventually regret, but I'd rather carry an extra pound yet have a 1" rifle, than to save a pound.

I still have yet a little bit of experimenting to go, but it doesn't look like any kind of corner is being turned with the Kimber. We'll see what happens though. I've got a box of ammo I've not shot any rounds from (Barnes), and I've not given the barrel a good scrub-down, at least to remove the powder.

If nothing else, this thread has been a good journal of exactly what my expectations and experience were with the rifle, and so can possibly serve to assist others going down the same or a similar route.

interesting, did you scrub the barrel before shooting it to remove machine grit and/or tailings ? even custom barrels come with that crap in them and it does a barrel no good to push it down the bore under pressure - I really doubt that is the cause of your rifle's inaccuracy though ..... to be fair, I believe Kimber only honors the MOA guarantee to the original owner and shooting factory ammo