It is once again time for a new vehicles are garbage thread.

[CJ19]

I have to wonder if there are any actual numbers to back up that new vehicles are less reliable. When a new car fails its surely more costly and more of a PIA to get fixed but do they fail more often? Between my vehicles and my wifes I can only think of 2 instances of having to leave the vehicle at the shop in over 10 years. And neither was a breakdown, just had to get something fixed/replaced that was slowly failing.

Would be interesting to have the actual numbers w no bias. In the case of the truck issue we had yesterday, it was the DEF heater meaning it was 100% one of the modern "improvements" to save the planet.

 

[MuleyFever]

Would be interesting to have the actual numbers w no bias. In the case of the truck issue we had yesterday, it was the DEF heater meaning it was 100% one of the modern "improvements" to save the planet.

DEF systems are annoying.

Everything I hear says that by removing the emissions crap you get way better fuel mileage. So is burning more fuel with all the emissions garbage actually better? Appears to me it would be about a wash but maybe I am wrong. Not something I know a lot about.

 

[eddielasvegas]

Exactly why I drive a 25 year old 4Runner. I have zero interest (even at zero interest ) in a new car for the reason you posted, all the nannies on them, insane prices and you name it.

Luckily, I'm old so I prolly won't be driving more than 15-ish years and I plan on it being in my T4R.

Good luck getting back to your hunt ASAP.


Eddie

 

[Muleyczy]

Would be interesting to have the actual numbers w no bias. In the case of the truck issue we had yesterday, it was the DEF heater meaning it was 100% one of the modern "improvements" to save the planet.

DEF heater?…..what’s the issue. Too cold out and it can’t heat up the DEF?

 

[CJ19]

DEF heater?…..what’s the issue. Too cold out and it can’t heat up the DEF?

Its high 20s and the def heater is not functioning. The def heater needs replaced or maybe wiring i would think. If it gets into the teens and the def tank and lines freeze, serious issues will arise. We have been unable to get the 175 mile to safe mode to go off today. So we maybe driving alllll the way back home at 60 mph or less. We have a call in to a chevy diesel mechanic buddy so maybe he can help. But again, modern truck problems drastically alters multiple days of a hunt.

 

[BUCKELK]

I have 2 trucks: A 2017 Ram 4x4 w/diesel and my "forever" truck is a 2006 Chevy 1500HD with the 6.0/L480e 4.10 tranny. The Ram has been very reliable but is very costly to maintain. Even oil changes and fuel filters are costly. BUT, it's a tool and I need it for the boat and/or all the heavy lifting. The ole Chevy only has 110K miles. I haven't put a dime in it except for routine maintenance stuff like tires, stereo, back up camera, rhino liner and a Bakflip.

If my life depended on getting from point A to point B, I'm hopping in the 20 year old Chevy.

Is that 1500HD still available?
Seriously, those were awesome trucks and at 110K miles, yours is rare!

 

[Flymost]

Ha, I just left the local Ram dealer. Had to take a look as I could get a Big Horn 4x4 for 40k. Climbed back in my diesel with 13 trouble free years and left with a big grin on my face thinking that my old truck would probably outlast the new one anyway.

 

[CJ19]

Truck is not able to go home. We are getting a rental. Truck is staying here.

 

[JRMiller]

I have to wonder if there are any actual numbers to back up that new vehicles are less reliable. When a new car fails its surely more costly and more of a PIA to get fixed but do they fail more often? Between my vehicles and my wifes I can only think of 2 instances of having to leave the vehicle at the shop in over 10 years. And neither was a breakdown, just had to get something fixed/replaced that was slowly failing.

Manufactures are rated by JD Powers on IQS (Initial Quality Survey) and Long Term Dependability (three years old vehicles).
It is not a perfect survey, as its a catch-all, but it does give some insight.
Numbers are given by faults per 100 vehicles.

2015 was at 161
2020 went up to 228
2025 went up to 269

2015 Long Term was 273
2020 Long Term was 220
2025 Long Term was 285

 

[CJ19]

I should post a picture on chevys social media of this chevy on a trailer being pulled home by a buddies a Ram. Ive alway drove chevy but this is 2 out of 3 this guy has owned with DEF issues. Not impressed.

 

[beachbunny]

What drives me crazy is the needless labor complexity to replace components that require regular replacement. Engine bays used to be extremely accessible with spark plugs, starters, water pumps etc all straight forward to replace.

Starters, spark plugs, water pumps should all be laid out in a way that they are accessible without anything more than minor disassembly. Every vehicle should have a cabin access to port to the fuel pump similar to older Land Rovers. You're talking about components that have 100k lifespans max. It shouldn't cost you $1500 in labor to replace a $150 part that requires 2 bolts and a electrical connection. Alternators should be replaceable on the side of the road with a wrench and a YouTube video.

Totally agree,had a 1970 landcruiser,very easy to work on plus it had a crank start in case the battery was dead

 

[menhaden_man]

I had a 2019 Duramax, just dumped it for a 2025 6.6 gasser. Wanted to love the truck so much but at 150k miles I had enough... more issues than any of the half dozen GM trucks I've had before combined. The legend of the Duramax died at the hands of EPA. Would be hard pressed to find myself in another one.

 

[DuckDawg22]

I only put about 4k miles a year on my 2006 Titan (150k now, bought it 10 years ago with 110k), aside from some infuriating things with the HVAC system the truck is perfect mechanically. Even though replacing the starter required taking the valve cover off it was still pretty accessible to work on. Haven't had a payment in years, hard to fathom spending new truck money given what I read here and elsewhere.

 

[JimIsland]

I have to wonder if there are any actual numbers to back up that new vehicles are less reliable. When a new car fails its surely more costly and more of a PIA to get fixed but do they fail more often? Between my vehicles and my wifes I can only think of 2 instances of having to leave the vehicle at the shop in over 10 years. And neither was a breakdown, just had to get something fixed/replaced that was slowly failing.

Mileage is certainly a measure to gauge reliability however, many of these new trucks are experiencing MAJOR mechanical failures where mileage isn't a factor. When a 80K dollar truck has a Tranny shit the bed at 10K miles that's crazy unacceptable.

 

[wyosam]

I thought I wanted a new truck to replace my 2007 Ram 2500 w/ 5.9l Cummins. Its at 215,000 and not having issues but is 18 y/o and I was thinking something newer might be more reliable. I'm now thinking otherwise.

I think you’re in “as reliable as a diesel pickup gets” territory right where you’re at. No chance I’m trading my 24v Cummins for something newer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rclouse79]

I am currently keeping my 2005 GMC Yukon xl on the road by disabling systems. I "fixed" the issue of power being cut due to faulty wheel speed sensors by pulling the fuse for traction control. Leaky sunroof was remedied by pulling the sunroof fuse and tube of silicon caulk. My latest issue was it would randomly go into 4wd and not shift back out. It would sometimes go back into 2wd when I would turn it off and restart it. When it was in 2wd I pulled the fuse for 4wd. Pretty soon she will be the equivalent of a 1960 suburban technology wise. My odometer is currently 199,200. Once she hits 200 k I might let her die.

 

[Castronova]

I had a 2019 Duramax, just dumped it for a 2025 6.6 gasser. Wanted to love the truck so much but at 150k miles I had enough... more issues than any of the half dozen GM trucks I've had before combined. The legend of the Duramax died at the hands of EPA. Would be hard pressed to find myself in another one.

I just did the same thing, 2020 Duramax for a 24 GMC 2500 AT4x 6.6 gasser. Been in the shop 5 times now for transmission shudder and to fix the leaf spring noise issue. Finally diagnosed the shudder with the head tech last week and GMC shot down the warranty claim saying the truck shudders and shakes to protect itself.

Unfortunately my memory is short and had a 2020 GMC 1500 that had transmission shudder issues that never got resolved until I traded it in. Now this. I’ll never buy another GM product. But then again I look at the alternatives and they all seem to be horrible too.

 

[K9kodi]

Those def heaters are such a huge impact and I believe they aren’t made nearly as stout as needed.
The diesel environment has had major changes , obviously due to epa, and has almost made them impossible to own. Although that’s all I buy and will continue to. Although, if it’s just a def heater, I could remedy that in the back country with a little ingenuity. Still shouldn’t be happening.

I’m not sure the new vehicle reliability isn’t there, there have been some major engine hiccups but with the influence of the world wide interwebs, word of problems are much more spreadable then before. Used to be not too long ago, if your trucks broke down in the driveway, you either spend your time and money fixing it or haul it to a shop, now, it’s get on the web and tell the world. Is the actual number of failure more per capita or just the knowledge of problems more readily available?

I do loathe how hard new vehicles are to work on though, kinda wild you basically need a computer engineering degree to do much more than change a wheel.

 

[menhaden_man]

I just did the same thing, 2020 Duramax for a 24 GMC 2500 AT4x 6.6 gasser. Been in the shop 5 times now for transmission shudder and to fix the leaf spring noise issue. Finally diagnosed the shudder with the head tech last week and GMC shot down the warranty claim saying the truck shudders and shakes to protect itself.

Unfortunately my memory is short and had a 2020 GMC 1500 that had transmission shudder issues that never got resolved until I traded it in. Now this. I’ll never buy another GM product. But then again I look at the alternatives and they all seem to be horrible too.

Jeebus... maybe I'll grab that extended warranty after all.

Already around 25k miles over past 6 months and no trouble yet, with some some long drives and backcountry trips. I sure hope I don't get that sort of problem. Would really piss me off.

But you're right - I'll my friends with trucks that are a year old or so are cussing them no matter the brand.

 

[StuckInTheEast]

What drives me crazy is the needless labor complexity to replace components that require regular replacement. Engine bays used to be extremely accessible with spark plugs, starters, water pumps etc all straight forward to replace.

Starters, spark plugs, water pumps should all be laid out in a way that they are accessible without anything more than minor disassembly. Every vehicle should have a cabin access to port to the fuel pump similar to older Land Rovers. You're talking about components that have 100k lifespans max. It shouldn't cost you $1500 in labor to replace a $150 part that requires 2 bolts and a electrical connection. Alternators should be replaceable on the side of the road with a wrench and a YouTube video.

.... deal with it all day, every day...that stuff and everything else they keep adding and changing has all been getting less accessible since the 90s.
I dont even wanna open this can of worms, Im more than disgruntled enough about every aspect of the auto and auto repair industries already after 23 years in.
It truely is a sad state of affairs. The good news its as good today as its gonna get for the foreseeable future...its just getting worse every day, year, month.
Automotive engineers have got to be some of the DUMBEST 'smart' people you'll ever find.
They have figured out how to screw up damn near every previous design that seemed to work well for a reasonable amount of time.
Servicability isn't even on their radar as most manufacturers are focused on form far above function. Ive got a cousin in a lead design role with a GM branch that's told me that first hand...cosmetic design takes precedent and mechanical makes the important ugly bits that make it go fit some how.
I dont envy anyone trying to figure out what new vehicle to buy these days. Especially trucks. The big prices tags certainly dont come with any added reliability anymore.
A warranty does you no good if the manufacturer doesn't have the parts to fix it or a loaner available for you to go beat off road when your new truck leaves you stranded on an out of state trip.... The whole damn industry makes me sick anymore.
We get 10 speed transmissions now that skip every other gear under most driving condtions...alot of good those extra 4 gears do.
Nope, im done, said I wasn't gonna start and here I go.
Sorry to hear about your trip troubles OP. Unfortunately I hear stories like that far to often anymore.