Is my 30-06 all I need?

[Andouille]

I have a tikka 30-06 with an 18” barrel. I shoot it suppressed with a TBAC ultra 7 ..... It’s incredibly accurate with 180g Accubonds and 165g partitions, I use lapua brass and either h4831sc or h4350. I keep it sighted in about 2.5” high at 100 yards.

That's very similar to my x-bolt 30-06 that is getting cut down to 18" for a Banish Backcountry. I have the same powders on hand and am evaluating bullet selection, wondering if I should go down to 150-155gr to keep good velocities at ~400 yds. what velocities are you getting for your 160 and 180gr pills?

 

[Gorp2007]

I’ll never get rid of my T3 in 30-06, but my matching 223 with the 10x SWFA was the best thing I ever did to improve my shooting.

 

[Gorp2007]

That's very similar to my x-bolt 30-06 that is getting cut down to 18" for a Banish Backcountry. I have the same powders on hand and am evaluating bullet selection, wondering if I should go down to 150-155gr to keep good velocities at ~400 yds. what velocities are you getting for your 160 and 180gr pills?

I’m getting ~2850 out of a 18” barrel with H4350 and 175 TMKs. It’s a Criterion barrel, so factory may be a little slower.

 

[Miflatlander91]

I’m getting ~2850 out of a 18” barrel with H4350 and 178 TMKs. It’s a Criterion barrel, so factory may be a little slower.

That’s impressive my factory barrel is getting cut down to 18” interested in what a factory barrel will do


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[35WhelenAI]

I’m getting ~2850 out of a 18” barrel with H4350 and 178 TMKs. It’s a Criterion barrel, so factory may be a little slower.

What makes a Criterion barrel faster than a factory barrel at the same pressure? Yours is 6" shorter than most test barrels (cut to min chamber dimension spec) and about 100 fps faster than published factory loads for data I know of. The barrel length alone is worth a 125-150 fps decrease off published data.

 

[TaperPin]

Especially with a rangefinder and dialable scope, you’re in good shape to 600 yards.

 

[Gorp2007]

What makes a Criterion barrel faster than a factory barrel at the same pressure? Yours is 6" shorter than most test barrels (cut to min chamber dimension spec) and about 100 fps faster than published factory loads for data I know of. The barrel length alone is worth a 125-150 fps decrease off published data.

I offer that information as a caveat, not an explanation. I know some people consider factory Tikka barrels slow, so I provide that info up front in case it’s interesting to others.

The Hodgdon site lists their max at 59 gr pushing a 175 Sierra at 2842 fps. I worked up to max and was popping primers, so I backed down to 58.0 and currently don’t see any pressure signs, but I’m sure I’m at the high end. I’m using a Caldwell shoot through and confirming out to 550 as best as my abilities will allow. The only thing I’m absolutely certain of is that other people’s mileage will vary. Do your own load dev and never blindly copy a recipe from a single book or some stranger on the internet.

 

[Andouille]

What makes a Criterion barrel faster than a factory barrel at the same pressure? Yours is 6" shorter than most test barrels (cut to min chamber dimension spec) and about 100 fps faster than published factory loads for data I know of. The barrel length alone is worth a 125-150 fps decrease off published data.

He's just stating that his Criterion barrel (which appears to be "fast") may be faster than a factory X-bolt or Tikka barrel. A reasonable clarification to set realistic speed goals for others. Also, different guns and barrels will show pressure signs at different pressures.

My X-bolt 30-06 barrel in 22" length (currently) runs about 60-90 FPS faster than box speeds for 175 LRX and 180gr TTSX. Maybe I'll get lucky and hit ~2800fps with a hand-load 175-178gr bullet and 18" barrel, but maybe not.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

That's very similar to my x-bolt 30-06 that is getting cut down to 18" for a Banish Backcountry. I have the same powders on hand and am evaluating bullet selection, wondering if I should go down to 150-155gr to keep good velocities at ~400 yds. what velocities are you getting for your 160 and 180gr pills?

Around 2650 with the 180s and just under 2800 with the 165s.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I want to keep the discussion on the right side of the fence and by no means, is it personal.

Pressure equals velocity. Barrels are not faster, all rifle show pressure signs differently. When a chronograph is involved, most folks believe they don't lie or they wouldn't publish the proud velocity numbers they do. When running 100 fps faster than published data with a 6 inch shorter barrel, there is one conclusion that can be made.

I said this in another thread as well. If so caught on wringing out velocity that is verified by a chronograph well above book value, get a cartridge with a bigger case that does it within limits, they have been established for over a century for a reason.

 

[N8H]

I've asked myself the same question a number of times. Would switching calibers result in better shooting? Probably. Is it enough to justify me spending 3K on a new setup....not at all. I've nerded out looking at ballistics, I know there's flatter shooting rifles with better ballistics, and I know the 30-06 drops pretty quick after a few hundred yards, but I still see no need to drop that kind of cash so that my holdover is 12" less. Maybe you'll feel different, but I say stick with your rifle and put some ammo through it until you're comfortable shooting 600yds.

Good luck!

 

[prm]

A 155 Scenar would reach way out there. You should be close to 3k fps. That will be very comparable ballistics to many newer cartridges.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I've asked myself the same question a number of times. Would switching calibers result in better shooting? Probably. Is it enough to justify me spending 3K on a new setup....not at all. I've nerded out looking at ballistics, I know there's flatter shooting rifles with better ballistics, and I know the 30-06 drops pretty quick after a few hundred yards, but I still see no need to drop that kind of cash so that my holdover is 12" less. Maybe you'll feel different, but I say stick with your rifle and put some ammo through it until you're comfortable shooting 600yds.

Good luck!

I like what's being said in this post. Switching cartridges doesn't add anything to better shooting. Flatter trajectory IMO (velocity is the root of this, good bc as well), is not better shooting and certainly not when it comes at the expense of overpressure loads.

When staying within the pressure limits that are well established over a century of loading for this cartridge, the cartridge is what it is. The issue is when it is pushed and there's no way the parameters (powder, bullet, barrel length, et al) would allow a stated velocity by any standard.

There are plenty of new people show up here that have no idea about reloading, and when they see stars in the sky velocity, that is a problem.

Gorp2007, thanks for the message, I appreciate it.

 

[General RE LEE]

I read the OPs original post and didn’t see anything about reloading so maybe I missed it somewhere.

I like the 178 grain ELD-X. Actually one of my favorite all around bullets for all calibers. For the 30-06, it’s what is loaded in Precision Hunter. For factory ammo it’s hard to beat.

I’ve got a load worked with Ramshot Hunter and the 178 grain ELD-X. 2750 FPS at the muzzle gets me to 650 yards at 1800 FPS with almost 1300 lbs of energy.

Yeah, the 30-06 is one of the best “do all” cartridges.

Also too, 30-06 has really good barrel life if you like to shoot a lot. 4K plus rounds is a TON of 30-06 shooting and doubtful many folks are going to shoot that many 30-06 outside of niche match shooters.

30-06 is the easy button. Enjoy

 

[General RE LEE]

A pic I took recently of a 30-06 178 ELD-X next to a 6mm ARC 108 ELD-M.

Something about the look and size of a 30-06 loaded case is classic. It’s like a cherry sunburst Gibson Les Paul Standard.

 

[Marbles]

Pressure equals velocity. Barrels are not faster,

This is false, and noted to be so by SAAMI. Note the bolded italics in the quote further down.

all rifle show pressure signs differently. When a chronograph is involved, most folks believe they don't lie or they wouldn't publish the proud velocity numbers they do. When running 100 fps faster than published data with a 6 inch shorter barrel, there is one conclusion that can be made.

I said this in another thread as well. If so caught on wringing out velocity that is verified by a chronograph well above book value, get a cartridge with a bigger case that does it within limits, they have been established for over a century for a reason.

Velocity is a function of pressure over time. However, more than just pressure effects velocity.

Over pressure is about peak pressure, which is achieved very early.

One can have an average higher pressure curve with a lower peak pressure. Changes to the throat, groove diameter, Etc can effect that. Test barrels are cut to the minimum SAAMI specification to ensure the round is safe in every appropriately chambered rifle. This results in higher peak pressure.

What Affects Rifle Chamber Pressure and Critical Factors You Need to Know - RifleShooter

When a cartridge is fired, a progressive burn of the propellant converts it to rapidly expanding gas that exerts an equal amount of pressure in all directions. Maximum recommended pressure for a rifle cartridge is usually dictated by the action strength of the rifle for which it is developed.

www.rifleshootermag.com

What SAAMI says about test barrels (Page 231 https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/206.pdf
"Chamber and bore dimensions of velocity and pressure test barrels shall conform to the dimensions of the chamber and bore at Maximum Material Condition (MMC) for each cartridge as originally introduced. Fabrication tolerances, however, are much reduced.
"It is recognized that changes may be made to cartridge or chamber dimensions in order to improve the velocity-pressure relationship, accuracy or functioning in rifles as production experience indicates. However, none of these changes should be of such nature that they would cause a significant increase in pressure level of a given lot of ammunition.
"No changes shall be made to velocity and pressure barrel dimensions which would result in a reduction of the recorded pressure level of any given lot of ammunition. This would result in the possibility of future lots of ammunition being loaded with increased powder charges, which would cause increased pressure in existing rifles."

Maximum Material Condition = the condition of a feature which contains the maximum amount of material, that is, the smallest hole or largest pin, within the stated limits of size.

I like what's being said in this post. Switching cartridges doesn't add anything to better shooting. Flatter trajectory IMO (velocity is the root of this, good bc as well), is not better shooting when it comes at the expense of overpressure loads.

When staying within the pressure limits that are well established over a century of loading for this cartridge, the cartridge is what it is. The issue is when it is pushed and there's no way the parameters (powder, bullet, barrel length, et al) would allow a stated velocity by any standard.

There are plenty of new people show up here that have no idea about reloading, and when they see stars in the sky velocity, that is a problem.

Ridding someone for using a load that is 1 gr under max powder charge per the manufacture is silly.

 

[Andouille]

In response to a few prior posts (not Marbles' above), did anyone suggest loading overpressure loads and not recommended loads from manuals, or imply that all barrels shoot the same speed and have the same safe loads? Be reassured I'm going to use load manuals as a starting point since I didn't ask about load specifics. Ironically, a lecture on safe reloading and pressures from someone on the internet is of no use to me since I have published load data and reloading books.

My purpose in asking about short barrel load velocities is to better understand how what combinations of powders and bullets I might investigate to keep my short 30-06 useable as an "everything gun." So in a round-about way, my questions are relevant to the OP's inquiry. For me, a short, light, and very portable 30-06 constitutes an "everything gun" that enjoyable to hunt with.

For some context regarding the suitability of 30-06 for all game, my 22" 30-06 has worked well for me for a moose (40 yds, Hornady SST, bang-flop), handful of caribou (185 to 243 yds, 168gr TTSX, bang-flop), and a small black bear (183 yds, 180gr TTSX, bang-flop). I find it relatively easy to shoot with a steady front and back rest and focus on a smooth trigger pull. Spotting shots is possible on very low zoom, but should be easier once I have a suppressor.

For comparison, I shot a caribou at 103 yds with a borrowed 7mm-08 which to me had negligible recoil and was much more fun (and cheaper) to shoot at the range. However, I prefer to hunt moose and black bears with a 30-cal larger projectile hitting around the same speed. I now own a win mag and find the recoil acceptable only with a brake, so the 30-06 will likely remain my favorite gun to shoot. Yeah, I've read the .223 thread.

 

[Ecampbell25]

If it’s isn’t broken don’t fix it

 

[thinhorn_AK]

In response to a few prior posts (not Marbles' above), did anyone suggest loading overpressure loads and not recommended loads from manuals, or imply that all barrels shoot the same speed and have the same safe loads? Be reassured I'm going to use load manuals as a starting point since I didn't ask about load specifics. Ironically, a lecture on safe reloading and pressures from someone on the internet is of no use to me since I have published load data and reloading books.

My purpose in asking about short barrel load velocities is to better understand how what combinations of powders and bullets I might investigate to keep my short 30-06 useable as an "everything gun." So in a round-about way, my questions are relevant to the OP's inquiry. For me, a short, light, and very portable 30-06 constitutes an "everything gun" that enjoyable to hunt with.

For some context regarding the suitability of 30-06 for all game, my 22" 30-06 has worked well for me for a moose (40 yds, Hornady SST, bang-flop), handful of caribou (185 to 243 yds, 168gr TTSX, bang-flop), and a small black bear (183 yds, 180gr TTSX, bang-flop). I find it relatively easy to shoot with a steady front and back rest and focus on a smooth trigger pull. Spotting shots is possible on very low zoom, but should be easier once I have a suppressor.

For comparison, I shot a caribou at 103 yds with a borrowed 7mm-08 which to me had negligible recoil and was much more fun (and cheaper) to shoot at the range. However, I prefer to hunt moose and black bears with a 30-cal larger projectile hitting around the same speed. I now own a win mag and find the recoil acceptable only with a brake, so the 30-06 will likely remain my favorite gun to shoot. Yeah, I've read the .223 thread.

I had the same idea. I like the 30-06 and think that it’s a very useful cartridge for hunting in Alaska. Moose, caribou, goat, sheep, black bear, blacktail deer etc are all no problem for the 30-06. I also like that you can make all sorts of different loads for it from varmint stuff up to 220g stuff.

I’ve had the best luck in the middle, 150-180g and I actually have some 190g ABLR bullets I’ll load up. Bets powders that I’ve used have been the h4350 and h4831. I had great results with reloader 17 but I don’t really use it because I only have a few lbs of it and havnt seen any more.

I also made a great load with the 150g ttsx and both of the 4895s worked well with it, I was getting just under 2900fps with that out of my 18” 30-06. For the record, I havnt shot an animal yet with this gun but I’m hoping to change that this year.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Re: scope upgrade. Are you recommending based on anything in particular, or just because there are better options available?


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There are just better options. But if you like it, I wouldn't mess with it.