Is it all Leopolds

[Bugger]

I just went on a horeseback elk hunt where I rode over a 100 miles in 8 days. Leupold VX5. Lots of banging around all week going up and down the mountain. Got home and checked my gun. It was dead on.

 

[BBob]

I just went on a horeseback elk hunt where I rode over a 100 miles in 8 days. Leupold VX5. Lots of banging around all week going up and down the mountain. Got home and checked my gun. It was dead on.

Pictures or it didn’t happen. Will also need detailed pictures of said rifle to verify if it has been used and abused enough to satisfy the requirements.

 

[fwafwow]

About the first 5 minutes and the last 5 minutes. Basically he says he knew something wasn’t right, swapped scopes and everything went back to where it was. Failed Kahles scope.

Was the failure big enough to miss game with? Maybe not depending on distance but in this case group size and point of impact varied noticeably between the two scopes.

Thanks. I watched about the first 12 minutes and last 10. For those who are hesitant to watch, the video has nothing to do with Leupold. The guy also pointed out that his trusted Kahles failed, and there is nothing about dropping it, falling, or riding in a truck, etc.

 

[BBob]

and there is nothing about dropping it, falling, or riding in a truck, etc.

Many benchrest scopes mounted on babied BR rifles have suffered the same fate. Just the simple act of shooting and transporting has produced many failures over the years.

 

[Axlrod]

Why go thru the time and wasted ammo at a range when you can track your scope on a Bushnell Pro bore sighter and watch the reticle tracking on the grid as you dial it whatever way you want. The graduated grid is in 4"@100yd segments. In addition, once the rifle is sighted in you take note of where the reticle is on the grid and you can check your zero when and where you choose. When I go on a hunting trip it goes with me. Gee whiz guys, why does it have to seem so hard when it can be so simple with the proper tools.

Putting a steel mandrel in the bore of your rifle can damage the crown. It is a terrible idea.
This is a tool the kid at the box store uses to get you "on paper". It is not an accurate substitute for checking zero.
How is shooting your hunting rifle ever wasted ammo??

 

[Wrench]

.....and you'd never see the movement on an imprecise tool. You're talking tenths of a mil.

 

[LONE HUNTER]

I don't really have much to say about Leupold.

But, man people get touchy about their equipment. If someone tells me what I'm using doesn't work when I know it clearly works for me. I tip my hat and say "thanks dude" and go back to what I was doing.

All that said. I definitely had issues with my rifles retaining zero before reading "forms" posts, starting probably 5 years ago now.

After reading and applying things, losing zero is no longer a problem on my rifles. (verified from hundreds of miles on a solid axle ATV, thousands of miles in trucks and a dozen dead animals).

If that makes me a "formie" then I will own it.

 

[Macintosh]

With respect, regardless of scope, if that happens hunters have a responsibility to check zero if there's any question there may have been reason to expect loss of point of aim.

If that's beyond what folks can do, it becomes selfish and not respecting living creatures that deserve the best when we engage them.

Anybody disagree with that? That's a yes or no answer, do animals deserve the best we can give them when there's any doubt? And if a rifle suffers an impact does that create doubt?

The direct answer to your Yes/No question is YES, I agree hunters have a responsibility to give animals our best to ensure we dont wound one due to an equipment failure, but NO when my rifle suffers an impact it does not necessarily create a doubt--IF I have the history with that individual piece of equipment to have a consistent record of not shifting zero after multiple similar events. To me, the key is frequently and consistently checking it in a repeatable manner after each season and during the off-season, so I actually can see if it ever shifts...so I can have informed confidence when it matters. My due-diligence to that animal I might shoot at tomorrow after I fall, has been in progress with that specific gun and scope for the past couple years, to the tune of dozens of zero-checks and a minimum of many, many hundreds of rounds. If its a combo I have less history with, or an impact noticeably harder than I've already taken several times, I am less cavalier about it. I am at the point where if I slip and fall hunting and the gun takes some impact in a way it has before, I know from repeated experience that with that rifle and scope I do not need to check zero....but if I fly to hunt, I will absolutely still check zero becasue who knows what the baggage handlers hucked my rifle case off of. Ethically-speaking I sleep very well at night taking this approach. Regardless of what anyone thinks of that, the scopes I replaced and no longer use would routinely lose zero 1.5-2moa or more without ANY impact, so I am 100% certain the way I am doing it now is more ethical than it would be to use those scopes and check zero after impacts.


Also, yes, real hunters fall, at least every real hunter I know does. It doesnt take too steep of a slope covered in several inches thick of wet leaves, sprinkled liberally with dead branches, blowdown and a dusting of awkwardly-shaped rocks, all covered by just enough slushy snow to obscure what's underneath, and then saturated by rain--traversed while wearing footwear suitable for the swamp you'll have to cross next--to be a pretty darn good humbler. There are plenty of places that I'm sure have equally slippery footing where an occasional slip and fall (or a slip and a bump while catching yourself in the process of NOT falling) is simply a fact of life, regardless of fitness or agility or grandma status. My hat is off to anyone that can sneak through a couple miles per day in that terrain for a couple months a year and not take at least a spill or two each season--in over 50 years on this Earth I have yet to meet such a person.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Thanks for the post Mac. It's a good thought you share and what others have said about absolute ethics in choice of scope in the first place. It's something to be aware of and consider more than in the past on my end to put the most consistent product in the field.

 

[Archer86]

 

[JackButler]

Agreed. However scopes aren’t built to be used like a car daily. Different entity. Point was I can go anywhere and find people unhappy on the internet. Really doesn’t mean a whole lot on the face of it.

Me you or the next guy have no way to verify who’s responding here and their credentials

Like I said I appreciate the input and it’s helping shape my decision. However it would be silly for me to bite fully into some guys with anecdotal experience and pointing to “look our forum did a poll and a few tests” it must be true

Exactly! Heck google “nightforce scope won’t hold zero” or “nightforce scope problems”. I think NF scopes are incredible, but plenty of internet experts whose rifle setup and shooting skills are unknown think otherwise.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I just went on a horeseback elk hunt where I rode over a 100 miles in 8 days. Leupold VX5. Lots of banging around all week going up and down the mountain. Got home and checked my gun. It was dead on.

You got pictures? No one will believe you if they are in the cult without those pics.

 

[Justin Crossley]

You got pictures? No one will believe you if they are in the cult without those pics.

I haven't seen anyone say Leupold scopes never hold zero, but I've seen enough evidence that they don't consistently hold zero for me to trust them on a hunt.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I haven't seen anyone say Leupold scopes never hold zero, but I've seen enough evidence that they don't consistently hold zero for me to trust them on a hunt.

JC, did you use Leupold scopes and have switched to others that you trust because you lost/wounded game (you mention not to trust them on a hunt), or are you a recent enough of a hunter to have been able to use drop test info and made the choice to avoid scopes that show shift in testing? Which scopes have you used besides drop tested scopes that you experienced shift, if it's ok to ask.

 

[Justin Crossley]

JC, did you use Leupold scopes and have switched to others that you trust because you lost/wounded game (you mention not to trust them on a hunt), or are you a recent enough of a hunter to have been able to use drop test info and made the choice to avoid scopes that show shift in testing? Which scopes have you used besides drop tested scopes that you experienced shift, if it's ok to ask.

I have used Leupold scopes for years (since the late 90s) and never questioned the fact that I had to adjust zero almost every time I went to the range. Around 2012, I started to hear people talking about scopes that were more robust and actually held zero. I stubbornly continued to use Leupold scopes for a few more years with mixed results. I won't say 100% I missed or wounded an animal due to a Leupold.

That is until a few years back, when I was hunting with Robby. On the last evening of the hunt, I had a shot at a buck. I was shooting a very accurate rifle and shot over the buck twice from prone with a bipod and rear bag. The distance was between 500-600 yards (from memory) and I couldn't figure out how I missed. Ryan Avery told me to check my zero and sure enough, it was off and the rifle was shooting high.

Since then, I have been mainly shooting Nightforce scopes (and a few others I wanted to review). I no longer chase my zero every time I go to the range. Load development is also much easier for me now, and I attribute that to the fact that my scopes don't wander around and give me false "bad groups."

Like many people on this site, I would love it if I could trust Leupold scopes to hold zero because I like a lot about them, especially the Mark 5 and Mark 4.

 

[Justin Crossley]

@35WhelenAI

I missed the last part of your question. Other scopes I've used that wouldn't hold zero.

A number of Vortex PST scopes had some of the worst scope failures I've personally seen. Huge shifts in zero and inconsistent adjustments compared to what was dialed.

The Vortex Gen III razor I tested (actually two different scopes) wouldn't consistently hold zero.

Sig scopes have been hit and miss for me.

Leupold Vari X III, VX3, VX5, VX6, Mark 5.

A few different Zeiss scopes.

The Zeiss LRP 3 seems to work correctly, and @Formidilosus has almost 3k rounds on the one I sent him to test.

 

[JackButler]

@35WhelenAI

I missed the last part of your question. Other scopes I've used that wouldn't hold zero.

A number of Vortex PST scopes had some of the worst scope failures I've personally seen. Huge shifts in zero and inconsistent adjustments compared to what was dialed.

The Vortex Gen III razor I tested (actually two different scopes) wouldn't consistently hold zero.

Sig scopes have been hit and miss for me.

Leupold Vari X III, VX3, VX5, VX6, Mark 5.

A few different Zeiss scopes.

The Zeiss LRP 3 seems to work correctly, and @Formidilosus has almost 3k rounds on the one I sent him to test.

This many faulty scopes of different brands points in one direction

 

[Reburn]

This many faulty scopes of different brands points in one direction

I have had similar experiences as Justin. As have others.
So what exactly are you trying to say?
But I'll add swaro to the mix. I had a Z5 that was funky. GREAT GLASS though. Was beautiful to look through. Zero wandered around like a stray dog though.

 

[Macintosh]

This many faulty scopes of different brands points in one direction

Well, it might if you didnt switch into a different scope and have all issues go away. Switch back to the original scope, problems again. Switch out to the new one again, instantly solved. That’s been my experience—process of elimination you can pretty easily rule out all issues other than the scope itself. Especially when you send it back and the company itself admits the scope is not working properly.

 

[Jake Larsen]

This many faulty scopes of different brands points in one direction

Exactly right it points in one direction: there’s not very many reliable scopes on the market. Which is what the drop testing crowd has been saying for years now.


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