Is it all Leopolds

[Okie_Poke]

With .260 I had 1k primers, 6# of powder with same lot number, 1k amax 100's. Once I had it zeroed, it just rode in truck or tractor mostly. Didn't shoot it high volume, it was just what got taken all over the farms. Never had to adjust it.

Thanks. I need to do a better job of this. I tinker too much with my load and components. For some things that's fine, but I need to set one rifle aside and just say "this is my killing rifle, and this is my killing load" and shoot it forever.

@Okie_Poke @onlybrowning both good points--of course your zero may shift if you change components or something else changes. Your specific questions and points have been addressed dozens of times before in other threads, because "this thread" comes up about monthly, and has for many years.

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This has all been covered in the scope eval threads as far as the scope eval methodology and what it is testing, how to verify that its the scope and not the rifle, etc. Also some info on on how to set up a rifle to prevent issues inthe first place, and then if you do have a problem how to isolate where the problem is and then correct it without chasing your tail. This podcast episode encapsulates much of that info in a fairly condensed place.

Thanks. I've read through that post several times and listened to the podcast. I kinda assumed Form was using the same lot of ammo for the tests when he specifies what ammo he's using each time, and I've heard/read him refer to shooting "pallets" of ammo each year. I'm just curious how many mere mortals stick with the same lot of ammo/components for that many rounds. It's apparently more than I anticipated.

I think there are a lot of reasons hunters/shooters have come to expect to have to re-zero their rifle often and so don't think about it all that much when they do. One of those, at least for me, is that I don't shoot enough of "the same thing" consistently enough to notice a change in zero and attribute it to the scope. If next year, I'm using a different box of ammo or loading with a different lot of bullet or powder, and I have to rezero when I go to the range, I don't think anything of it. I'm definitley curious enough that I want to pay more attention to this on purpose. Not because I doubt your experience or Form's drop tests, but because I'm like that. I often have to learn things for myself, and that has both good and bad consequences. Still, if I was planning a once-in-a-lifetime hunt, I'd probably consider putting a Nightforce on my rifle just so I wasn't woried about it.

 

[eLightfoot]

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[Spoonbill]

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Makes you wonder what the zero was before he left. I think that the mark 5 had a trackable shift in zero like .1-.3 mils? Kind of hard to keep track of which leupold scopes do what in regards to zero.

 

[fwafwow]

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I appreciate that he does this - but it's actually just more evidence that he's not really spent much time reading the test evaluation protocol, the test results or the back and forth. (In his defense, the back and forth is pretty extensive.) But as has been said before, I don't think anyone has ever said, or hinted, that a particular scope model that fails the drop or road tests means that EVERY one of those scopes will fail.

And to open with ~"everyone is talking shit" to characterize people who have posted legitimate and substantive questions, including to point out his inconsistencies (a rifle can be built more robustly, so why not a scope?), makes it come across as even more defensive than before.

 

[TaperPin]

Kinda funny how Leupolds are non-functional for so many people on the Rokslide forums. But looking at the Alaska Outdoors Supersite, the Leupold 1x5, 3x9 and 2.5x8 seem to be the riflescopes of choice for Alaska hunting with 375s, 338s, and the 300 mags.

We had a good chuckle at the Kodiak rifle range - a proud as punch kid on the next bench just bought a varmint barreled 25-06 and some type of big variable tactical scope - he was making all sorts of predictions how well it will eventually shoot, how hard it must be for us to use a little scope, bla bla bla. My buddy had a unicorn unusually accurate 45/70 topped with one of those 1.5x5 Leupolds that put 5 hard cast max pressure 400 gr. bullets in a nice little group, somewhat smaller than the 25-06. My 8 lb 375 with the same scope shot about the same as the 45/70. Us old geezers didn’t say anything and let the kid see the big holes for himself when we changed targets. Lol

The kid turned out to be a good sport and after some joking and suggesting maybe he needs a larger scope, the kid shot a couple of respectable groups with our rifles. We suggested selling or rebarreling - that gun of his will never shoot well.

 

[Jameek]

Get rid of it. It will let you down! My vx-6 3-18 cost me a great mule deer in Montana last season. Lost zero 5.5 inches high at 100. Sucks because the glass is amazing, but that leads me here and it’s crazy how many people have the same problem.

 

[dieselchessy]

Watch till the end. Don’t think he’s in the enamored with Form cult.

 

[Bugger]

Watch till the end. Don’t think he’s in the enamored with Form cult.

Cliff notes or time stamp for the important stuff? I try not to waste time supporting influenzars.

 

[Choupique]

Sucks because the glass is amazing,

There's so much frustration about it. The scopes are otherwise pretty excellent. Very light, great glass, great eye relief, great reticles, ZL turrets is awesome, merica. Every single thing about them is great except the most important one.

 

[dieselchessy]

Cliff notes or time stamp for the important stuff? I try not to waste time supporting influenzars.

2 points in the video, toward the beginning his zero is a bit low, and then at 7:40 he talks of experiencing issues with wandering zero, and some thoughts for troubleshooting.

Seems a little odd that you’d spend time here supporting influencers but then balk at spending time on youtube supporting influencers.

 

[fwafwow]

2 points in the video, toward the beginning his zero is a bit low, and then at 7:40 he talks of experiencing issues with wandering zero, and some thoughts for troubleshooting.

Seems a little odd that you’d spend time here supporting influencers but then balk at spending time on youtube supporting influencers.

Since the recommendation was to "Watch till the end" I watched about the last minute or two and didn't recognize anything that would be anti-Form cult.

 

[Bugger]

Seems a little odd that you’d spend time here supporting influencers but then balk at spending time on youtube supporting influencers.

Could you elaborate on how my forum participation directly supports an individual influencer and boosts their content visibility?

Also just didn’t want to waste 12 minutes listening to that goofball talk trying to find your point.

 

[dieselchessy]

Since the recommendation was to "Watch till the end" I watched about the last minute or two and didn't recognize anything that would be anti-Form cult.

“Watch till the end” not “watch the end”. There were bits and pieces of scope wonkiness in different sections of the video.
Not “anti-cult”, but a point of reference from other than assumed to be cult members, as some were purporting that cult members were the main detractors.

 

[rickyw]

Cliff notes or time stamp for the important stuff? I try not to waste time supporting influenzars.

Start at 7:40

 

[dieselchessy]

Could you elaborate on how my forum participation directly supports an individual influencer and boosts their content visibility?

Also just didn’t want to waste 12 minutes listening to that goofball talk trying to find your point.

Your visiting and participating on this chat board drives traffic numbers. Those numbers drive advertising revenue and product and swag sales that directly supports the owner/influencers like Robby, Ryan, Aaron, ect..

Its very similar to the youtube channel business model except the primary content creators can be the wiling participants rather than the influencers themselves.

 

[Bcoonce117]

So anyways. Come on girls, let’s get Back to Leupold scope issues lol. Does sending your scope in actually fix the issue?

 

[TaperPin]

I’m not complaining, just enjoying what folks have to say, especially the hunting stories.

When someone has a scope failure during a hunt in one week of the year, I wonder what happened the other 51 weeks that gave them the confidence to use it on a hunt. Scopes follow simple physics of how they are handled and shot - they don’t know what tag you have or know the difference between a bump against something at the range or a tree. If a rifle is carried around shooting rock chucks, rocks, or coyotes, that’s pretty close to the same handling it encounters hunting, with many more rounds down range.

Honestly it would be entertaining to watch videos of the life of a scope showing every event in its history that knocked it off kilter. I bet it would show some bad habits people didn’t realize they have. It’s like the first time a kid shoots a crease in the hood of dad’s pickup when leaning over the truck to poke at a critter way out there. The number of low bipods is an easy source to point to for many malfunctions blamed on scopes. I stopped hunting with low bipods, primarily because they struggle to be tall enough to reach over things, and also when at the absolute lowest level to the ground where awareness of dirt, rocks, low branches, or whatnot is critical, the mechanics of setting a rifle down on the bipod and rotating the butt up to the shoulder helps to hide these things. Giant miss shooting down hill ups the odds even more.

Don’t get me wrong, if scopes are going crazy I wish guys would do a better job of documenting it over time. A notebook with a history of every elevation and windage adjustment is so much more interesting. Most ranges I’ve been to are pretty windy and it’s easy to lose track of how many guys shoot and complain the groups keep moving back and forth 1/2” from week to week, or even throughout the day. Duh, wind does actually affect 100 yard groups. It’s entertaining that they adjust scopes back and forth so much, and I’ve even caught myself wanting to do it without confirming it’s a wind issue.

 

[Choupique]

Does sending your scope in actually fix the issue?

It will return it to as-new condition.

 

[dieselchessy]

So anyways. Come on girls, let’s get Back to Leupold scope issues lol. Does sending your scope in actually fix the issue?

In my experience, no. But maybe it helps your conscience when you then sell the scope to not be selling w guy something you know is broke.

 

[ColPenguin]

Watch till the end. Don’t think he’s in the enamored with Form cult.

"I really like it, but...my zero has been off the last 10 times..."

Seems like he's going to get there, eventually. Maybe in a bit of denial. Maybe it takes him a little longer to reach the same conclusion. Maybe he doesn't want to jeopardize sponsorship opportunities.

"I'm going to change out the rings, and see if anything changes."

This is what any reasonable person should do. Eliminate the variables, try different rings, try the optic on a different gun.

On more recent videos I have seen him sporting a Maven RS1.2. Maybe he moved on after a bad shot when it mattered.

Some people really seem to hate on Backfire Jim, but I just see an adult onset hunter trying to figure things out, sharing his results. Chucking scopes into the backyard pool is just a different type of gear durability test than the Rokslide drop test.

Like much content on YT, the viewer cannot always determine impartiality and integrity of the reviewer. There is always the possibility that Jim, or any reviewer for that matter, isn't saying something because it could harm his sponsorships, quid pro quo arrangements and their business.