Is there anyone who prefers MOA vs MIls for hunting purposes?

[HuntHarder]

Lmao . No it’s so I can hit .11 MOA closer to my bullseyes than all you Mil guys hahaha

Your " bullseye" already ran over the hill because you couldn't do quick drop. That is unless you are able to fast drop prone and shoot off your bino harness. That can make up for how slow MOA is.

 

[huntnful]

Your " bullseye" already ran over the hill because you couldn't do quick drop. That is unless you are able to fast drop prone and shoot off your bino harness. That can make up for how slow MOA is.

Lmao .

Seriously though, they’ve had ballistic rangefinders for over 10 years. You have to make it a point to use inferior technology (because you still need a rangefinder to use quick drop), just to be able to use quick drop and act like it’s a staple in your system lol.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Your " bullseye" already ran over the hill because you couldn't do quick drop. That is unless you are able to fast drop prone and shoot off your bino harness. That can make up for how slow MOA is.

What folks always forget is the following...

How far did the animal travel in your scope when it ran over the hill, maybe it stopped half way up and looked back? Or 3/4 of the way up and stopped and looked back? Maybe it ran towards you and down the slope (common). Maybe it's moseying around feeding or being distracted by other deer/elk? Or maybe it's a bear that never really stops moving as it grazes along?

Unless you are crazy well practiced on animal distance travelled through the scope (which is pretty much nobody, myself included, when in the mountains) guys are generally off by minimum 50-60 yards, most of the time closer to 100+ yards on animal distance from where it was when they ranged it, to where it is now that they are ready to dial or hold over for elevation (nearly always on an animal they want to kill, adrenalin is pumping and the thought that the animal moved 123 yards didn't even cross their mind).

My point is, to be truly effective in what I've seen, you need to re-range the animal anyway if it takes off or if it's moving at all. No matter how fast somebody may be dropping down and shooting off their bino harness, you still need an accurate range in my opinion. Using the reticle to try and determine a range or "guessing" and holding over, etc. nearly never works effectively unless someone is world class, especially when past around 250 yards.

Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. Unless you regularly time yourself and practice ranging/re-ranging, you will 100% not know if you are "quick enough" to get a shot off on a "moseying" animal that the yardage potentially hasn't changed enough to make a ballistics correction.

I think a lot of folks assume that some guys on Rokslide are promoting "laying down as fast as possible and blasting away with a compromised position". If someone thinks that's the objective or goal, they are completely missing the point and aren't well practiced in the overall shot process.

 

[huntnful]

What folks always forget is the following...

How far did the animal travel in your scope when it ran over the hill, maybe it stopped half way up and looked back? Or 3/4 of the way up and stopped and looked back? Maybe it ran towards you and down the slope (common). Maybe it's moseying around feeding or being distracted by other deer/elk? Or maybe it's a bear that never really stops moving as it grazes along?

Unless you are crazy well practiced on animal distance travelled through the scope (which is pretty much nobody, myself included, when in the mountains) guys are generally off by minimum 50-60 yards, most of the time closer to 100+ yards on animal distance from where it was when they ranged it, to where it is now that they are ready to dial or hold over for elevation (nearly always on an animal they want to kill, adrenalin is pumping and the thought that the animal moved 123 yards didn't even cross their mind).

My point is, to be truly effective in what I've seen, you need to re-range the animal anyway if it takes off or if it's moving at all. No matter how fast somebody may be dropping down and shooting off their bino harness, you still need an accurate range in my opinion. Using the reticle to try and determine a range or "guessing" and holding over, etc. nearly never works effectively unless someone is world class, especially when past around 250 yards.

Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. Unless you regularly time yourself and practice ranging/re-ranging, you will 100% not know if you are "quick enough" to get a shot off on a "moseying" animal that the yardage potentially hasn't changed enough to make a ballistics correction.

I think a lot of folks assume that some guys on Rokslide are promoting "laying down as fast as possible and blasting away with a compromised position". If someone thinks that's the objective or goal, they are completely missing the point and aren't well practiced in the overall shot process.

Well said.

I’d even venture to say we blow more opportunities by moving too fast, than moving too slow. Many opportunities don’t require speed. Yet we still do it, and perform like shit, and wish we’d have taken more time afterwards.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Well said.

I’d even venture to say we blow more opportunities by moving too fast, than moving too slow. Many opportunities don’t require speed. Yet we still do it, and perform like shit, and wish we’d have taken more time afterwards.

100% it happens both ways.

I missed a heck of a mule deer 6 years ago that still haunts me because I rushed building the position and wasn't as practiced as I should have been, made a shit wind call as I didn't trust myself reading the wind (I would have been correct if I hadn't questioned it). He came out with 2 other bucks and they would not stop moving. They were crossing a saddle and were going to crest the other side and I wanted to kill the lead buck (monster). This was also before I used RF binos so I had to look back and forth between range finder and hard dope card (didn't know quick drop either past 300 yards). I yelled to get them to stop, took the shot, and completely missed the deer at 480 yards lol. I dusted his back and the deer all booked it over the ridge within the next 5-10 seconds at a full run.

Compare that to last year, I glassed up a bruiser Coues buck moving with a group of 4 other small bucks. They were moving down the steep mountain heading for the desert flats where there is a water tank. Ranged the group at 270 yards and I told my buddy to get ready for a shot and I'd give him dope and wind call. He proceeded to take what felt like an hour to get setup, and by the time he was ready, the deer were at 750 yards and moving away. He is nowhere near skilled enough for that shot, despite him still wanting to take it, and I told him no and didn't give him dope haha. If he had been well practiced, he could have built a solid position and had a 300-350 yard downhill angle shot. That a shot that's much closer to being within his wheelhouse.

As you've said on the site here before, there is no reason to not be smooth/fast with building positions, ranging animals, and making wind calls. Will you always need the speed? No. Are guys who practice regularly at speed and shot process better killers? Yes.

 

[HuntHarder]

"Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." @mxgsfmdpx One of the truest statements made. I see it on a regular basis with new apprentices. They look like they are moving fast, but the "wasted" moves add up real quick. Efficiency comes with practice.

 

[Formidilosus]

“Slow is smooth, smooth is fast” is one of the most overused, incorrect tropes that exists. It is repeated by people that suck as an excuse for why they suck, or by people that haven’t thought it through.

Fast may be smooth, but slow is just slow.

 

[huntnful]

100% it happens both ways.

I missed a heck of a mule deer 6 years ago that still haunts me because I rushed building the position and wasn't as practiced as I should have been, made a shit wind call as I didn't trust myself reading the wind (I would have been correct if I hadn't questioned it). He came out with 2 other bucks and they would not stop moving. They were crossing a saddle and were going to crest the other side and I wanted to kill the lead buck (monster). This was also before I used RF binos so I had to look back and forth between range finder and hard dope card (didn't know quick drop either past 300 yards). I yelled to get them to stop, took the shot, and completely missed the deer at 480 yards lol. I dusted his back and the deer all booked it over the ridge within the next 5-10 seconds at a full run.

Compare that to last year, I glassed up a bruiser Coues buck moving with a group of 4 other small bucks. They were moving down the steep mountain heading for the desert flats where there is a water tank. Ranged the group at 270 yards and I told my buddy to get ready for a shot and I'd give him dope and wind call. He proceeded to take what felt like an hour to get setup, and by the time he was ready, the deer were at 750 yards and moving away. He is nowhere near skilled enough for that shot, despite him still wanting to take it, and I told him no and didn't give him dope haha. If he had been well practiced, he could have built a solid position and had a 300-350 yard downhill angle shot. That a shot that's much closer to being within his wheelhouse.

As you've said on the site here before, there is no reason to not be smooth/fast with building positions, ranging animals, and making wind calls. Will you always need the speed? No. Are guys who practice regularly at speed and shot process better killers? Yes.

Being capable of both, and also knowing how to read the situation is the definite key to success!

On my recent aoudad hunt, we were closing in to hopefully get close enough to all get shots on a group of sheep at a comfortable range.

I kept glassing the group to see if they were getting spooky (they have excellent eyesight). Sure as shit I see them start getting restless, and then quickly filing up and over the ridge. I just laid down, 550 yards, dialed 297 clicks in MOA, held on the windy side of the vitals using my MOA wind bracket of just shoot a high BC bullet really fast and not the bare minimum, and when one stopped at the top and I sent it. Perfect shot and stoned the sheep, which then back flipped off a 20’ ledge. It would have been such an epic video.

But there was no time for that fluff unfortunately lol

 

[solarshooter]

“Slow is smooth, smooth is fast” is one of the most overused, incorrect tropes that exists. It is repeated by people that suck as an excuse for why they suck, or by people that haven’t thought it through.

Fast may be smooth, but slow is just slow.

I interpret it as more guidance on how to learn to be fast. You can't practice incorrect movements quickly and expect them to become correct. You have to start with correct movements, then learn to speed them up. Has been 100% true and applicable in every sport/skill I've ever practiced personally. If you can't do the technique slow and controlled, you sure as hell can't do it rushed and under pressure.

 

[BLJ]

Haha. This morning my dials at 950 with my 22 Creed were getting hits on a 12” gong with 5.8-6.0 MILs up depending on the canyon updraft/AJ and my wobble zone.

That would be like maybe 20 MOA or some shit I don’t know

For my 308 with 180 Bondstrikes it’s 32.25 at my elevation to 950.
When you go past the 20 on the turret you just have to remember to stop at 12.25 when it comes around. Pretty basic really.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

“Slow is smooth, smooth is fast” is one of the most overused, incorrect tropes that exists. It is repeated by people that suck as an excuse for why they suck, or by people that haven’t thought it through.

Fast may be smooth, but slow is just slow.

That’s why I suck

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

"Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." @mxgsfmdpx One of the truest statements made. I see it on a regular basis with new apprentices. They look like they are moving fast, but the "wasted" moves add up real quick. Efficiency comes with practice.

Correct. Flailing around “fast” can be quick but end result usually sucks. Until it’s “refined” aka smoothed out to be quicker overall.

Controlled, smooth movements when practiced end up being fast.

I kinda suck at wording things as y’all can tell

And yes, I suck at shooting too haha.

 

[Ramem7mm]

I have both types of scopes. I started with MOA not really knowing the difference and that was more common I believe growing up however the last scope I got was Mils and I wish I would converted sooner and not made some purchases on some recent MOA scopes. Until I hit the lotto to replace some of the older scopes I will have to use both but I don't like having the two different types.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Mil is simple and not actually metric. It relates to the circumference of a circle, so one miliradian at 1000 yards is one yard and at 1000 meters is one meter. (With a tiny fudge factor for pi approximation.

One can use moa and deal with inches and yards, but this is a hunting forum and who here can estimate a buck's height in inches?

Well, the radian is the angular unit adopted as part of the SI system, so it is metric.

There’s no fudge factor for pi. One radian is exactly the arc length along a circle, equal to 1000 yards at a radius of 1000 yards. And one milliradian is exactly an arc length of 1 yard at 1000 yards. The height at 1000 yards is approximately equal to the arc length, under the small angle approximation.

 

[mt terry d]

If your rangefinder goes down, you don't have an accurate range to do quick drop math on anyways.

You can with a mil reticle scope.

 

[isleofGough]

Mil subdivisions on a military compass are 6400, so it is an approximation of 2 pi x 1000

 

[Harvey_NW]

You can with a mil reticle scope.

Both are angular measurements so you can with an MOA reticle too, but the likelihood of average hunters being able to accurately compute the distance of a moving animal through a reticle is probably similar to winning the lottery. Hell, most can't even accurately guess size through an alpha grade spotting scope.

 

[CCoble]

If you can wrap your head around the quick math of MOA I think it is easier for most. The reason being, most of the time your hunting partner is going to give you a miss correction in inches. Something like you’re 8” low. So at 800 yards your quick and ROUGH correction would be 1MOA. Or at 400 yards the correction would be 2MOA. The math is not exact but the quick rule of thumb with MOA is 1” per 100 yards = 1 moa. Example - 100yards 1” is 1MOA. 400 yards 4” is 1MOA.

I personally think this is easier for most to understand in the hunting world.

 

[Kurts86]

Having gone from MOA to MIL I will say MIL’s are a much better system for calling wind and thinking in base 10. MOA just has so much inertia to overcome in the American hunting world.

I have lived my whole adult life switching calculations between Imperial and Metric units and all things equal base 10 systems are just easier to work in. That’s coming from someone with a very high math aptitude and dope memorized to 500 yards in both MOA and MIL’s.

 

[Laelkhunter]

If you can wrap your head around the quick math of MOA I think it is easier for most. The reason being, most of the time your hunting partner is going to give you a miss correction in inches. Something like you’re 8” low. So at 800 yards your quick and ROUGH correction would be 1MOA. Or at 400 yards the correction would be 2MOA. The math is not exact but the quick rule of thumb with MOA is 1” per 100 yards = 1 moa. Example - 100yards 1” is 1MOA. 400 yards 4” is 1MOA.

I personally think this is easier for most to understand in the hunting world.

It is for me. All my scopes are MOA, and I am too old (and retired) so I can't afford/don't wish to replace them with MIL scopes.