Idaho proposed special season open sight centerfire

[Flyjunky]

So you are good with drone use and thermals? What about remote viewing stations? If that’s good, what armed drones? What about punt guns?

Come on, we all know nobody is saying to go that far or would be ok with that.

That would be like me saying that for those who want to put primitive or limited weapons to lower success…..I propose that we need to all go back to spears and loin cloths only.

 

[Steve300xcw]

but we want to restrict that so that more hunters are guessing at ranges? How is that good for humane kills? How does that aid in recovery of dead animals? And, instead of being able to place a shot precisely, you would rather have “the average slob hunter” out there using iron sights?

Of course, this won’t affect people like me. I have been estimating range and using iron sights my whole life. The only animal I have ever used my range finder on was a groundhog.

How many animals have you wounded and lost, before you became the expert marksman with iron sights that you are today

 

[bowhuntercoop]

Even with irons, a scoped rifle, a freaking rock thrown. Why are guys not ranging animals? I see this in the trad world, since they shoot” instructive” they don’t need to range. Ughhh news flash, yes you do.

Ranging the animals with any weapon will only increase the chances of successful harvest vs not ranging.

 

[wind gypsy]

Kids are probably the least impacted by an iron sights rule. They learn fast and generally have better eyesight than adults. Many (and at one point not so long ago, most) kids start learning on iron sights, so they have a lot more recent experience with it than adults. I know I cut my teeth head-shooting squirrels with an iron-sighted pellet gun, and 12 year-old Ozarkansas would whoop 31 year old Ozarkansas in an iron sight shoot-off. “Think of the children” is not a valid argument against this, imo.

If we’re having to choose between cutting back on season length, cutting back on number of tags, or restricted weapons to reduce harvest, I would choose restricting weapons every time. It’s valid to disagree with that or take the position that no change is necessary, but I don’t see how restricting modern guns to open sights is going to cause the cultural death of hunting.

If whitetail hunting in the Midwest thrived under shotgun-only restrictions, I expect western hunting will do just fine under iron. Sight restrictions.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe I'm having a hard time with the whole vulnerable kids angle because it wasn't that long ago i was ecstatic about my dad buying me a 12 gauge with iron sighted smooth bore slug barrel. Killed my first few deer with that gun when i was little tike and it beat the shat out of me. No sadness or woe is me because i didn't have a rifled barrel with a scope, i got to go hunting and that was awesome.

 

[WRO]

I brought up rangefinders as the biggest change in effective killing in my lifetime, I wasn’t proposing banning them just pointing out an obvious fact.

I think the idea is dumb as it will just lead to overcrowding in other units as most people will just hunt other units instead of ones with restrictions.

IDFG cares about opportunity and selling tags. 39 for example is getting ready to go off a cliff population wise as winter range is disappearing at a rapid rate in the danskins and foothills from development, yet IDFG is hell bent on killing every deer in the unit with late archery, kid doe murder, and running the season the longest of the general rifle seasons.

 

[wind gypsy]

I brought up rangefinders as the biggest change in effective killing in my lifetime, I wasn’t proposing banning them just pointing out an obvious fact.

I think the idea is dumb as it will just lead to overcrowding in other units as most people will just hunt other units instead of ones with restrictions.

IDFG cares about opportunity and selling tags. 39 for example is getting ready to go off a cliff population wise as winter range is disappearing at a rapid rate in the danskins and foothills from development, yet IDFG is hell bent on killing every deer in the unit with late archery, kid doe murder, and running the season the longest of the general rifle seasons.

Wouldn't be surprised if there would be transition periods. If fewer people hunted due to restrictions hunting might get better which would draw more people to wanting to hunt it.

 

[wind gypsy]

I feel like i've been arguing for it in this thread but in reality it's just been more so against some of the logic against it.

The actual application makes a lot of difference. For example, I wouldn't advocate for it in areas that have deer with lots of cover or the ability to allude hunters already. Just the seasons/locations where the ability to escape hunters is low would make sense. Where hunter harvest is a large driver of the buck population. Easiest application is probably in areas that are already limited entry.

 

[IdahoBeav]

IDFG cares about opportunity and selling tags. 39 for example is getting ready to go off a cliff population wise as winter range is disappearing at a rapid rate in the danskins and foothills from development, yet IDFG is hell bent on killing every deer in the unit with late archery, kid doe murder, and running the season the longest of the general rifle seasons.

The deer population would explode out there if they just eliminated doe harvest from the general tag.

 

[WRO]

The deer population would explode out there if they just eliminated doe harvest from the general tag.

Eliminating the 1500 either sex draw tags would help as well.

 

[HunterGatherer]

I brought up rangefinders as the biggest change in effective killing in my lifetime, I wasn’t proposing banning them just pointing out an obvious fact.

I think the idea is dumb as it will just lead to overcrowding in other units as most people will just hunt other units instead of ones with restrictions.

IDFG cares about opportunity and selling tags. 39 for example is getting ready to go off a cliff population wise as winter range is disappearing at a rapid rate in the danskins and foothills from development, yet IDFG is hell bent on killing every deer in the unit with late archery, kid doe murder, and running the season the longest of the general rifle seasons.

39 is maybe not as bad as we think. There was a major crash in ‘16/17’ but the population has shown steady recovery since then. Biologists now think, based on declining fawn weights that the unit is approaching carrying capacity. Lower Fawn weights correlate with higher winter kill …

The thing we’re seeing in units like 39 is a lack of mature bucks, which makes it feel like the unit is declining in general. I quit hunting the late archery hunt for lack of mature bucks. They just aren’t there like they used to be. This is most likely caused by gaps in the age class by severe winter kill events more than overharvest. Another component that I would speculate on is that recent fires have opened up a massive amount of country. The animals in burns are much more exposed and easier to kill with long range weapons even though they increase good deer habitat in the long run.

 

[Formidilosus]

Fine, your reductio ad absurdem wins. You are right, there are limits. But those limits assume the goal is the humane killing and recovery of game animals within bag limits.

I’m perfectly okay with limits on finding game (no drones, thermals, shooting over bait, trail cameras, etc.), but once it comes to the shot, I want methods that result in the highest recovery rates.

Ok- Tracking Point or other visually controlled fire systems?

 

[Formidilosus]

Come on, we all know nobody is saying to go that far or would be ok with that.

Aren’t thermals legal right now in Idaho? Aren’t drone usage for scouting and recovery of animals common and massively increasing in areas?

Literally people ARE saying just that. People are acting as if this is the first time that weapons restrictions and capabilities have had to be introduced to a “normal” season.

 

[idelkslayer]

Watch the May 2025 commission meeting video in this link if you want a deep dive into the history of mule deer in Idaho…

Mule deer 2025: Here's where we are, and from where we've come

Mild-to-normal winters typically grow Idaho’s mule deer herds, or more accurately, allow herds to grow. But as history has often shown, the good times don't last forever. Another normal winter in 2024-25 means odds are in our favor that we’ll have as good or better mule deer hunting than last year.

idfg.idaho.gov

Excellent article and video. Hunters have short-term memories and heavily weigh their own anecdotal observations over any collected data. If they showed a graph of hunter numbers over that time span you would see a pretty stable average as well.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Ok- Tracking Point or other visually controlled fire systems?

I had never heard of Tracking Point until you mentioned it. It looks like it automates the firing solution to help eliminate shooter error? It doesn’t seem like anything I would use, but if someone wants to use it, I don’t care.

I go shooting every week that I am not hunting, because I like shooting and I want to make sure that the few hunting shots I take every year hit where they should. If someone wants to use a computer to make the wind call, that doesn’t bother me. Just like I don’t care if someone buys a Gunwerks rifle, hires an army of guides, and shoots from a tripod before getting on his helicopter to go back to Jackson Hole.

If we can’t fix the systemic problems, then we have to limit access. Fewer tags (especially for NR) and/or rigorous enforcement of rules concerning motorized transport.

 

[HunterGatherer]

So after all the debate, The real issue around the tech isn’t herd management or even hunter satisfaction ( except in the case of the iron sights proposal). It’s about fair chase. The technologies that are up for debate in Idaho currently are thermal, cel cams, and drones. Thermal isn’t fair chase for ungulates, neither are drones. Cel cams are debatable IMO but I don’t like them personally, although I have used them ( I no longer do ).

The newly proposed iron sights season isn’t about taking away opportunities from hunters. It’s about adding another option for hunters that are tired of sniper rifle season and are willing to give up some tech to have a different experience, albeit with potentially lower odds of success. The whole system is built this way - better seasons for more primitive weapons, which is nothing new. No reason for pearl clutching because “ they’re trying to take scopes away”.

 

[WRO]

39 is maybe not as bad as we think. There was a major crash in ‘16/17’ but the population has shown steady recovery since then. Biologists now think, based on declining fawn weights that the unit is approaching carrying capacity. Lower Fawn weights correlate with higher winter kill …
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The thing we’re seeing in units like 39 is a lack of mature bucks, which makes it feel like the unit is declining in general. I quit hunting the late archery hunt for lack of mature bucks. They just aren’t there like they used to be. This is most likely caused by gaps in the age class by severe winter kill events more than overharvest. Another component that I would speculate on is that recent fires have opened up a massive amount of country. The animals in burns are much more exposed and easier to kill with long range weapons even though they increase good deer habitat in the long run.

The winter range is ****** and it only going to get worse with the addition of Mayfield and Avimor developments.

 

[Formidilosus]

I had never heard of Tracking Point until you mentioned it. It looks like it automates the firing solution to help eliminate shooter error? It doesn’t seem like anything I would use, but if someone wants to use it, I don’t care.

I go shooting every week that I am not hunting, because I like shooting and I want to make sure that the few hunting shots I take every year hit where they should. If someone wants to use a computer to make the wind call, that doesn’t bother me. Just like I don’t care if someone buys a Gunwerks rifle, hires an army of guides, and shoots from a tripod before getting on his helicopter to go back to Jackson Hole.

Idon’t scout, I don’t carry the weight (motorized legs), I don’t find the animals (guides), I don’t aim the rifle (TP on tripod), I don’t fire the gun (TP), I don’t track the animal (thermals/guides), I don’t carry the animal (guides/ motorized legs), I don’t process the animal (butcher).

So not hunting at all. And you believe this position is defensible to any one about ethical hunting and the NA conservation model?

If we can’t fix the systemic problems, then we have to limit access. Fewer tags (especially for NR) and/or rigorous enforcement of rules concerning motorized transport.

So it’s clear- I am not saying that iron sights are the answer. Just that technology must be in the conversation, and I can objectively understand why the iron sights movement is taking hold.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Idon’t scout, I don’t carry the weight (motorized legs), I don’t find the animals (guides), I don’t aim the rifle (TP on tripod), I don’t fire the gun (TP), I don’t track the animal (thermals/guides), I don’t carry the animal (guides/ motorized legs), I don’t process the animal (butcher).

So not hunting at all. And you believe this position is defensible to any one about ethical hunting and the NA conservation model?





So it’s clear- I am not saying that iron sights are the answer. Just that technology must be in the conversation, and I can objectively understand why the iron sights movement is taking hold.

Form, what you describe is not “hunting,” by my personal definition. But neither is sitting in a blind shooting deer at a corn feeder. And that is “hunting” for a lot of Americans.

If your hypothetical “hunter who doesn’t do anything” wants to brag about his skill or post his trophy elk on social media, I can’t stop him. But I can ignore him.

If you want to limit technology, I am entirely in favor of banning the mobility advantages. If you want to limit all public land access to leather personnel carrier and animal transport, I would be just fine with that. I’m also quite okay with banning all scouting technology beyond regular optics (no drones, no thermals, no game cameras, etc.). And ban all hunting over bait. And ban all scent lures. And get rid of all NR tags on state land.

But when it comes to the act of killing, I am not interested in “feats of skill.” I am interested only in the humane killing and recovery of the dead animal. I practice so that the shot is the least remarkable part of hunting. If someone else wants to have you spot for him and make the wind call for him, I don’t care. My competition isn’t with some dumb animal or other hunters. It’s with myself.

And the reason that an “iron sights only” hunting area doesn’t appeal to me is that it is a totally futile gesture that will do nothing to solve the problem. If you can’t fix the systemic problems, then you have to accept crowding or limit tags. All these special seasons - be they archery, muzzleloader, iron sights - are just attempts to keep selling access to more people than are actually sustainable. It’s like Disney selling “skip the line passes” so that the rich don’t have to wait in line with the hoi polloi.

When it comes to public land hunting, my sympathies are with the average resident hunter who wants to go into the local lands to hunt. I want sustainable local traditions of hunting open to the common man. And I want the average person to be able to kill humanely, recover dead animals, and eat them.

 

[Ozarkansas]

I want sustainable local traditions of hunting open to the common man. And I want the average person to be able to kill humanely, recover dead animals, and eat them

In a world of limited harvest opportunity, restricted seasons are the best path to “sustainable local traditions”. You need residents to be able to hunt every year, or hunting traditions die.

I would be willing to sacrifice modern gun hunting entirely to retain year-round hunting in my state, so I have no issues with Idahoans sacrificing something as negligible as scopes to try to retain it in theirs.

I think at the end of the day some of us sit on complete opposite sides of the spectrum on this, and that’s okay. But I’m always going to prioritize resident OTC opportunity at the expense of weapon effectiveness.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I guess I did not realize using open sights was such a difficult thing to do.