Ice/snow comparison between rifles

[rabbithuntr]

My rifle lives in the pickup saw forms post duplicated the process with my origin with a trigger tech, and a single shot 22. It’s -10 here three light primer strikes either the origin I then quit trigger felt normal firing pin drop was sluggish. The 22 worked on the first try.


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[Marshfly]

All that said, I just follow this thread for curiosity. I'm not chasing animals when it's this cold. LOL.

Try to get my killing done early in the season.

 

[rabbithuntr]

I always have a coyote tag I’m trying to fill


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[Shortschaf]

My rifle lives in the pickup saw forms post duplicated the process with my origin with a trigger tech, and a single shot 22. It’s -10 here three light primer strikes either the origin I then quit trigger felt normal firing pin drop was sluggish

Hey Ive got an identical setup. Origin and Triggertech. Per your comment about the light strikes--is your stuff all degreased?

I was out yesterday in -9° and it shot with no hiccups. Mine came from a warm house, to warm pickup, to the cold outside where it sat for 30 minutes before shooting. So no condensation in my case. But my firing pin is also bone dry.

I ask because I'm curious if it's a frozen condensation problem or a gellified lube problem

 

[rabbithuntr]

I’ve not degreased it


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[Marshfly]

I’ve not degreased it


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This might be key. It takes 5 minutes to tear down a 700 bolt assembly and clean it.

 

[Formidilosus]

This morning-





Custom- fed fine, bolt would not close and rotate. Beat it with my palm and got it to close. Light strike, recocked and worked fine.

Tikka- functioned and fired correctly.




Knocked/wiped the snow off as best as possible and brought both inside to warm up/sweat.




Then when they started sweating, took both back outside. Will check this evening.

 

[eoperator]

One a R700 based custom action with Bix & Andy trigger, and one a factory Tikka T3x.

What Bix & Andy model?

 

[ElPollo]

Love this thread. I remember living in cold-ass snowy places. My last elk hunt a couple of years ago was punctuated by 3 feet of snow on the fourth day. But my biggest concern these days is dealing with all the damned sand that ends up in my guns and some occasional freezing rain.

 

[Formidilosus]

What Bix & Andy model?

TacSport.

 

[Formidilosus]

Didn’t get to it yesterday, so did this morning. -1°F. As from above the rifles were brought inside after removing as much snow as possible. Then they stayed inside until the were almost dry, with just the sweat from the metal. Then they sat overnight covered outside.

This morning the R700 pattern custom action had to be beat open, then the bolt beat forward at which point I grabbed the camera. It started out of the screen, but you see the bolt have to be hammered down, then it doesn’t want to come back, and it failed to extract the cartridge. At which point I removed the mag which was nearly stuck from ice (this isn’t an action issue, it’s an AICS normal) then ran the bolt twice before it extracted the cartridge, but would not eject- which you see the entire video. The first trigger was about 8lbs and the firing pin barely moved- would not have fired. The second was around 5’ish lbs and was sluggish as well, doubt it would have fired. The third and on were mostly normal, with every once in a while it being clear the firing pin had resistance.

Switched to the Tikka, no issues. It fed and functioned normally, save a slightly tighter safety the first time it was placed to fire, due ice.

 

[Shortschaf]

Bolt being froze shut -- the deep bolt flutes let more water/ice in? Less clearance than the tikka between bolt body and raceway?

Ejection problem -- water/ice got into the ejection plunger or hole?

Sluggish FP -- also due to the trigger? I admit I would have a hard time believing it has anything to do with the bolt/firing pin itself in this case if it was dry (of lube)

Trigger freeze -- water/ice being able to wick into the 700 platform's trigger more easily than the tikka?

Im assuming the extraction problem was a frozen m16 extractor

Curious what the differences are that lead to these results

 

[Reburn]

I admit I would have a hard time believing it has anything to do with the bolt/firing pin itself in this case if it was dry

If you get the guns cold i.e. while hiking, get in the warm truck and they sweat and they get out and go hiking again and they refreeze they will have ice in places just from the sweat.

Thats what he is demonstrating. They don’t have to get wet or snowed on. Those guns after sweating were put on a covered patio.

 

[Shortschaf]

If you get the guns cold i.e. while hiking, get in the warm truck and they sweat and they get out and go hiking again and they refreeze they will have ice in places just from the sweat.

My point is that the bolt and firing pin designs are pretty much the same between the two. So I dont see how one is significantly more prone to water infiltration than the other.

virtually zero condensation occurs in a confined space like a firing pin cavity compared to an exposed surface. Its not impossible of course. But again, both rifles would accumulate it to the same degree if it was happening at all.

 

[Reburn]

My point is that the bolt and firing pin designs are pretty much the same between the two. So I dont see how one is significantly more prone to water infiltration than the other.

virtually zero condensation occurs in a confined space like a firing pin cavity compared to an exposed surface. Its not impossible of course. But again, both rifles would accumulate it to the same degree if it was happening at all.

Form has always said its the R700 pattern triggers that are the problem.

I wasnt trying to highlight that it was the bolt. I'm sorry I wasnt clear. I was just trying to highlight the trigger doesnt need to get wet to get condensation on it and inside it to cause problems.

As to HOW the tikka vs R700 triggers are different I dont know.

 

[JohnJohnson]

@Formidilosus would a Mausingfield perform any better the the current R700 footprint custom you're testing or would it be held back similarly?

 

[id_jon]

@Formidilosus would a Mausingfield perform any better the the current R700 footprint custom you're testing or would it be held back similarly?

I had a similar thought about the CDG, I'm assuming the ejector design is basically the same between the two.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus would a Mausingfield perform any better the the current R700 footprint custom you're testing or would it be held back similarly?

In some ways it generally does- extraction and ejection being the big ones here, however the major issues are always the trigger, and in that case- no.

 

[id_jon]

In some ways it generally does- extraction and ejection being the big ones here, however the major issues are always the trigger, and in that case- no.

I guess it probably doesn't matter since they're impossible to find anyway, but does the Geissle super 700 perform better in cold/snow/ice? Or only perform better with drops?

 

[Formidilosus]

I guess it probably doesn't matter since they're impossible to find anyway, but does the Geissle super 700 perform better in cold/snow/ice? Or only perform better with drops?

It does a little bit. Not enough better for me to choose to use a 700 pattern action, but they do help a bit. True two stage triggers all help with debris as the first stage can help clear ice/dirt/sand.