Yeah, no joke on your second paragraph. We pretty easily become spoiled.
Truest statement in this thread!!!!!
I would and have!Be honest, outside of national parks and monuments, would you drive to another state to go see their public lands?
Absolutely, yes do it all the time.Be honest, outside of national parks and monuments, would you drive to another state to go see their public lands?
what types were they?I would and have!
Its pretty easy for you to say things like this when you pay a fraction of the tax rates a lot of NRs pay. I dont want them sold off at all. I want the states to manage them. I would be very disappointed if they were sold. Unfortunately, people like yourself and many others think that just because people enjoy using federal lands means they are automatically a priority for everyone. Some people have real choices to make financially when it comes to balancing entertainment and life.
I have always been a public land advocate. Its a shame the way things have gone the last few years have resulted in me feeling this way. Maybe i just need to crjnch some numbers. The idea of federal land being sold to some rich prick is not appealling at all. Im not trying to spite any resident of any state, but rather thinking where my money is best spent for me and my family. I dont know i really like western federal land, i might have to reconsider my position.
I don’t even know how to respond to this, pretty much all states have small opportunity for Non resident in regards to most species if not than it’s because the resource can’t sustain the pressure. whitetail states back east and western big game aren’t even close to the same comparison in terms of demandPrivate of course, but plenty of big deer get killed on public. Just like private ranches out west kill big bulls usually. Will gladly open my 20 acres to someone who lets me kill a big bull on their private on an OTC tag.
Never asked for the same opportunity as a resident. Just thought it might be a good idea that we all agree as fellow hunters that collectively allocating a small percentage of opportunities to non residents might benefit all of us as Americans.
It’s a crazy concept but all of us might enjoy hunting out of our home state from time to time.
Thanks, youve been very insightful. I am going to push hard for transfer of BLM lands to the states every chance i get. I know it wont make a difference probably but oh well. I guess ill still just hunt all this fed and state land until then. Probably after if i am lucky enough to see the the transfer occur too. Oh well.My tax rate is almost exactly what it was when I lived in Minnesota. It's a bit lower here, but that is more than offset by the vehicle registration fees in this state, so you're just wrong but hey, nice try.
When you hand over public land to states they will sell it off. This has been demonstrated countless times. Do some research.
And EVERYONE needs to make real financial decisions regarding balancing "entertainment" (as you put it), and life. I made the decision to prioritize quality of life over continuing to climb the ladder at my job. This has cost me tens on thousands of dollars over the last few years alone. I'd make that trade again in a heartbeat.
I feel zero sympathy for those of you complaining about tag allocations for this reason. If you really cared about this you could do the same thing I did, but that would require sacrifice. You're not willing to sacrifice anything and yet want tags handed to you regardless.
We don't owe you a single thing. Play by our rules, or stay home. It's pretty simple.
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The wildlife yes, the land most hunt, no.Owned by the state, managed by the state. Plain and simple.
What’s your sales tax spend on consumptive goods vs when you lived in MN?My tax rate is almost exactly what it was when I lived in Minnesota. It's a bit lower here, but that is more than offset by the vehicle registration fees in this state, so you're just wrong but hey, nice try.
When you hand over public land to states they will sell it off. This has been demonstrated countless times. Do some research.
And EVERYONE needs to make real financial decisions regarding balancing "entertainment" (as you put it), and life. I made the decision to prioritize quality of life over continuing to climb the ladder at my job. This has cost me tens on thousands of dollars over the last few years alone. I'd make that trade again in a heartbeat.
I feel zero sympathy for those of you complaining about tag allocations for this reason. If you really cared about this you could do the same thing I did, but that would require sacrifice. You're not willing to sacrifice anything and yet want tags handed to you regardless.
We don't owe you a single thing. Play by our rules, or stay home. It's pretty simple.
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No sales tax in Montana, which is nice. Of course, the price of these items is higher in general because I'm not in a population center, so that's about a wash as well.What’s your sales tax spend on consumptive goods vs when you lived in MN?
Forest, BLM landswhat types were they?
I feel like there's some cognitive dissidents here. You accurately state that if federal land is given to the states it tends to be privatized. Then you say we don't owe you a thing while you hunt federal land. It seems like it's the other direction right? Does the country owe you this? State land often isn't viable financially so the federal government holds the property. Which I support it staying federal. However, this effectively is subsidizing resident hunters access is it not? If so shouldn't we respect that non-residents are helping support public lands staying in public hands? I'm definitely not saying we do everything he said in the OP. But non-residents are frustrated and I think they have some valid points.My tax rate is almost exactly what it was when I lived in Minnesota. It's a bit lower here, but that is more than offset by the vehicle registration fees in this state, so you're just wrong but hey, nice try.
When you hand over public land to states they will sell it off. This has been demonstrated countless times. Do some research.
And EVERYONE needs to make real financial decisions regarding balancing "entertainment" (as you put it), and life. I made the decision to prioritize quality of life over continuing to climb the ladder at my job. This has cost me tens on thousands of dollars over the last few years alone. I'd make that trade again in a heartbeat.
I feel zero sympathy for those of you complaining about tag allocations for this reason. If you really cared about this you could do the same thing I did, but that would require sacrifice. You're not willing to sacrifice anything and yet want tags handed to you regardless.
We don't owe you a single thing. Play by our rules, or stay home. It's pretty simple.
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Yep, while I watched that Laird Hamilton surf documentary that I mentioned earlier, all I could think was how similar it was for him and doing everything he had to do to surf and keep hunting for new surf breaks........as it has been my whole life with elk hunting. It's all about priorities. Even in college, I'd disappear for weeks at a time during hunting seasons. Missed several tests and quizzes over those years, but still graduated with a 3.0.I contend that there’s just fundamental differences in what someone who chooses to lIve in Ohio prioritizes in their life over what a resident of a western state does.
We do that all the time. Camping, hunting, fishing, hiking, sightseeing......it's all available in most every western state. And since they've implemented the reservation systems for the parks and monuments etc, we generally avoid those now. That's half the reason to go to these places even in other states........to get away from people and the hustle and bustle of life.Be honest, outside of national parks and monuments, would you drive to another state to go see their public lands?
First off thanks for the thoughtful replies thus far.
I suspected a few of those ideas might ruffle some feathers but that wasn’t the intent.
Bottom line the sky isn’t falling just yet. I have tons of nonresident opportunities, and the ones I’ve had have been excellent. Expensive yes, limited compared to a resident absolutely. But well within reach of the “Everyman.”
But I worry about the trend toward increased privatization of wildlife, decreasing opportunities both resident and nonresident as well as increased catering to special interests hoping to profit off that wildlife.
I worry my son won’t have the opportunities that I had. Because of those experiences, it’s made me a huge advocate for the wild places I’ve been and the wildlife that inhabit them. If those experiences aren’t shared, those advocates will cease to exist. That’s the real rub in all of this, and why those wanting nonresident tags to go away, be priced out of reach for all but the very wealthy, or limited to expensive politically connected outfitters are being shortsighted in their viewpoint.
My idea might not be great or even workable. But it’s an idea. My hope is that it might get refined through thoughtful discussion into a better one. All I care about is that we all have access to wildlife, access to places to hunt that wildlife, and great experiences available to as many people as possible for many generations to come.
I hope those that want to call me names, say I’m “retarded” or any such nonsense can step back and realize at the end of the day, we all want the same thing, and we’re going to have to work together to find workable solutions to get there.
Yes you go there to hunt and fish. Like every other non resident. The point I was getting at and asking for honesty ,which I appreciate you coming forth with, is you go there to recreate to do the things that are legal that you love to do. People are arguing well “we’re not taking away your public lands you’re still welcome to come visit them”. Well technically no you didn’t take them away per say but you can’t enjoy all the activities that a certain group gets to even though you’re just as much an owner of it as they are. Make sense? It’s almost like the class field trip gets to go to the petting zoo and the teacher says all the kids with last names A-F don’t get to touch or pet the animals but feel free to enjoy their time.We do that all the time. Camping, hunting, fishing, hiking, sightseeing......it's all available in most every western state. And since they've implemented the reservation systems for the parks and monuments etc, we generally avoid those now. That's half the reason to go to these places even in other states........to get away from people and the hustle and bustle of life.