I don't want Grizzlies spreading their range....There I said it

[mossyoak52]

100% chance that if we start a thread on pit bulls it starts an argument

No way don't know where you got that idea
We are rational open minded individuals on here
We NEVER argue

 

[Pikespeak]

To be honest, I would rather them reintroduce griz than wolves! If Colorado had a sizeable griz population, it might cut down on the crowding at trailheads!

I used to live in CO and I agree that having the REI outdoorsman crowd think twice would be in the plus column. The sheer amount of people is having a big impact on wildlife.

 

[wyodan]

So admittedly I think we’ve debated this one fully so I have another question.

I hunt by myself, I’ve never have found a compatible hunting partner for hunting style, kids, timing etc. or maybe I debate too much. Lol

Are you guys hunting in heavy grizzly areas alone or with groups of people? I think I would be less worried if I had a hunting party of probably 4+.

Almost always alone, including through the summer when I am just hanging out. It's always a great day to see a grizz and get to tell someone about it.

 

[grfox92]

The comment “ They are supposed to be here” is debatable at the onset. Based on what? Animal ranges change constantly without human impact. So to an idealistic state in time of maximum? Also debated is whether people who want something in one state or area should be able to push it onto others. Also, how much control over our environment is allowed, where is the line? Saying bears are supposed to be here is weak to me because it disregards everything else that is continually wiped out for us to exist including wildlife and habitat. You are only applying that argument to bears but disregarding it’s relevance to everything else.

Grizzly bears are expanding back into their historic range without anyone's help. You are stating that you rather they didn't. I live in NW Wyoming in what I would argue is the most dense grizzly bear per sq mile in the lower 48. They are expanding into areas they haven't been in hundreds of years all by themselves.

No one is helping them, they are doing it naturally because their numbers are increasing. Nuisance bears are trapped and relocated back closer to Yellowstone and it doesn't stop their expansion.

Do I want bears everywhere I go to recreate? No. Do I travel to hunting areas that don't have grizzly bears? Sometimes yes, especially if I'll be hunting solo and have no one to go with. That doesn't mean that I want any effort made to stop them from expanding naturally. And no one should.

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[grfox92]

The comment “ They are supposed to be here” is debatable at the onset. Based on what? Animal ranges change constantly without human impact.

Where are the grizzly bears now that there never was historically? The answer is nowhere.

Where is there a push to introduce grizzly bears into areas that they aren't already currently living? Maybe you can enlighten me.

I'm not aware of any program with any traction that's pushing to reintroduce grizzly bears into any area that they're not already naturally expanding from the greater Yellowstone ecosystem.

Furthermore, do you have any evidence that grizzly bear numbers were on a decline before humans populated the West? Pretty sure the answer is no. So why bring up that animal's ranges change constantly without human interaction unless it was to further cement your opinion?

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[Btaylor]

I don’t think everyone is belittling me just a couple comments. I appreciate Slicks last reply. Also I’m referring to continued allowed expansion not managed by hunting seasons to cull them out of current range.

At the end of the day, the reason I fear them is because of the seemingly helplessness of the situation. I mentioned previously people fight off black bears, mountain lions, and wolves. Sometimes it doesn’t work out but you stand a chance. Also, there usually seems to be less surprise where the animal is following them for a while etc. I’ve read a couple books on grizzly attacks to educate myself on why they happen and the thing I picked up most was how little warning people had and there wasn’t a damn thing they could do once it started. That’s why I fear grizzlies. Hell give me an African lion that I saw coming from 40 yards away vs a grizzly popping out of the willows at 5 feet.

The only reason a person survives a bear attack, grizz or black, without the use of spray or a gun is because the bear wasnt intent on killing you. You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think you have any chance at all going toe to toe with a black bear bigger than a cub. I have no experience at all with grizz but have been around black bears most of my life.

 

[Crowmangler]

Grizzlies are magnificent animals. My opinion of them changes with my point of reference. They're cool & fascinating when looking through a spotting scope from 800 yards away but can be terrifying when I'm breaking down a bloody carcass after dark.

 

[BFR]

[QUOTE="Crowmangler, post: 2638437, member: 34392"
Grizzlies are magnificent animals. My opinion of them changes with my point of reference. They're cool & fascinating when looking through a spotting scope from 800 yards away but can be terrifying when I'm breaking down a bloody carcass after dark.
[/QUOTE]
This………but I would be 1000% behind relocating a few hundred to California, you know to keep their flag bear company.

 

[Buglebrush]

If they would relocate them to California cities it would help with the homeless issue...

Honestly, I hate them so very much. Hate having such a dangerous predator out there with so much protection. Would be so much better if they were hunted, and it wasn't like shooting a person if you do shoot one.

 

[scattergun]

Bears are amazing creatures and are to be respected. If you hate them, then you might want to consider a different hobby.

 

[jimh406]

Unclear why some of you need to name call because someone doesn't agree with you. Hypocritical that you want others to just get along with Grizzlies, but you can't even get along with people on this site.

 

[Pikespeak]

Predators that can kill us, things that bite and sting, cliffs, lightning, etc is all part of the natural world and wilderness. If I wanted to hunt danger free I'd go to the supermarket and hunt for some frozen chicken. But, then again I'd have a good chance of getting shot or shanked by some maniac, so I'd rather engage with the

The only reason a person survives a bear attack, grizz or black, without the use of spray or a gun is because the bear wasnt intent on killing you. You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think you have any chance at all going toe to toe with a black bear bigger than a cub. I have no experience at all with grizz but have been around black bears most of my life.

Looking through the literature people who fight back against black bears do drive them off a lot of the time. Doesn't mean that if the bear was determined to kill you couldn't, just that they seem to like an easy meal. But yea if they attack you they are trying to eat you but they are half assed about it. Also, why are you saying without s spray or a gun? I bring all the tools in my toolbox for bear country.

Grizzlies, the more you fight the more they mess you up.

Edited: My poor grammar made a sentence unreadable

 

[Pikespeak]

Where are the grizzly bears now that there never was historically? The answer is nowhere.

Where is there a push to introduce grizzly bears into areas that they aren't already currently living? Maybe you can enlighten me.

I'm not aware of any program with any traction that's pushing to reintroduce grizzly bears into any area that they're not already naturally expanding from the greater Yellowstone ecosystem.

Furthermore, do you have any evidence that grizzly bear numbers were on a decline before humans populated the West? Pretty sure the answer is no. So why bring up that animal's ranges change constantly without human interaction unless it was to further cement your opinion?

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Why is the burden of proof on me? Do you have evidence that their range didn't expand and contract over the years as the environment changed? I imagine my viewpoint is more accurate unless people think grizzlies existed with the dinosaurs.

I don't think we are discussing whether there is a program to expand grizzlies or not, that keeps being brought up. We are talking unencumbered expansion, however that looks.

 

[Laramie]

Lol no I can't stand buzz but if anyone on here does not like what I post they can use the neat little feature called ignore user on here see where I'm going with that ? I've used it a lot and I'm guessing I'm gonna use it again very shortly
you have a lovely day

Wasn't intended to offend you. The two of you have some similarities so I asked because the timing made sense. I honestly miss some of the information he brought to the forum.

 

[Pikespeak]

Bears are amazing creatures and are to be respected. If you hate them, then you might want to consider a different hobby.

Im sorry but thats an emotional response....no creature is more amazing or wonderful than any other. Again, this is just a line of who is in and who is out of the cool crowd. Im sure your lifestyle whether intentional or not has displaced many creatures.

 

[tdhanses]

Why is the burden of proof on me? Do you have evidence that their range didn't expand and contract over the years as the environment changed? I imagine my viewpoint is more accurate unless people think grizzlies existed with the dinosaurs.

I don't think we are discussing whether there is a program to expand grizzlies or not, that keeps being brought up. We are talking unencumbered expansion, however that looks.

So if we don’t see something for awhile then it has no right to ever go back? Guess i’m not following your logic, only reason grizzlies, buffalo and wolves disappeared from every state is because of man, not nature.

Or are you saying once man ruins something lets never bring it back? Read up on the North American model for wildlife management, elk once were almost extinct as well and have been reintroduced into many of their historical ranges, they just don’t scare people.

 

[Billy Goat]

Ok I'm ready for a thread derail, some memes.


Should we go with the hybrid polar/brown bear?

Or the fact that bees kill more people every year than bears and snakes combined?

 

[Billy Goat]

@tdhanses only singled out cause it fit in the blank, and you were active.....

 

[Mojave]

so your against the growth of the human population ? you must be with your first statement we are the superior predator
and they are a sub species of brown bears
just like the timber wolves is a subspecies of candaian grey wolves
if you don't want competition then i suggest you stay out of the woods and give up hunting because anyone that hunts is competition / point of contention hunting for the same species in the same area
in the 38 yrs we have been hunting montana wyoming idaho the presence of grizzlies and wolves have never prevented us from filling our tags idaho & wyoming elk population has actually grown sense wolves were introduced

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

The problem is that they are going to be the single point of failure on our loss of hunting. Not because they are competition, but because the non-hunting public will do anything to protect them. I am talking about the social media life soccer mom who has never been to the Rockies. She might even live in the UK or Australia. Social media has given this twat a voice that they never had before.

A friend of mine works for the park service, the amount of BS and drama they get for some idiot who will never use the park, never has used the park but loves to create social media drama. Drama that results in far left leaning environmental terrorist threatening the housing area in the park. Threatening park employees that have zero to do with wolves, bears or anything else. Just because the park does the "right thing" by publicizing the problems with a park and bears. Removing problem bears brings the idiots from far off places like Russia, Japan, San Francisco and Jackson, WY who are just fanatical about wildlife.

These idiots sway liberal government idiots with their sensationalism.

Some nimrod moving from to Wyoming or Montan from California who just retired from the San Francisco Fire Department and can finally sell their house and move, isn't the enemy of hunting. It is sensationalized idiots who see wildlife as a cute cuddly resource that should never be hunted.

 

[tdhanses]

@tdhanses only singled out cause it fit in the blank, and you were active.....

View attachment 422224

That is hilarious