I don't want Grizzlies spreading their range....There I said it

displacedtexan said:
Unless you have some reputable source saying that European colonizers extirpated dinosaurs Shut up about them.

If you come to my house and drink all my tea, I can gripe about you drinking all my tea. If I gripe about not having any whiskey because of you though... I'm a lunatic.
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3forks said:
Oh please... I chimed in on page 5 back when you were still trying to figure out what the chances of getting into a car accident on the way to hospital after getting mauled by a grizzly were.

After skimming the next 4 pages, it doesn’t look like this discussion has changed anyone’s mind.
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Lol was changing people’s mind the goal of my own thread? I wasn’t aware, thanks for letting me know. Does every discussion have to have a winner and a loser? I found it informative and thus worthwhile, and it did change my perspective a bit. Not totally, but a bit. Not sure what you’re getting all worked up about.
 
Very interesting thread. I wanted to comment back on page 1 but figured I had to read the rest of the responses first. It's easy to see that there are a lot of people commenting who have never lived in a grizzly dense area, but also a few who do and have come to terms with risk and adjusted lifestyle.
I have lived in Wyoming my whole life, but only 3 years of those were in a grizzly dense area. I thought the original question was worthy of some intelligent discussion having had perspective of the same type of environment and hunting both with and without griz, but immediately people were super defensive because the OP does not love grizzlies. Almost as bad as politics.
Anyways, here's my take. I grew up in western WY. At 13 I went and shot my own buck, gutted it l, and hauled it home on 4 wheeler. Carefree camping and hiking. At 25 I moved to grizzly capital at the top of the wind river range. Cool wild place, but it didn't take me long to learn I wasn't in Kansas anymore (only a 3 hour drive from where I grew up) After a rainstorm in June we went on a 4 wheeler ride and literally every puddle on the trail had fresh griz track. I took my wife scouting an area for elk (forgot my sidearm) and after seeing the 6th bear sign in only a 1/4 mile and very little elk sign I decided we should look somewhere else.
I still hunted a lot, but sneaking through the timber cow calling is not an option. A kid actually got maulled cow calling while I was there. Griz snuck up and jumped him from behind. I only bow hunted deer at the edges of clearing because I didn't think going into the timber after elk was worth it. The most nerve wracking thing I've ever done was shoot a rag horn at dusk at the top of the mountain 2 miles from the truck. (They do come to gunshots. Some even will wait for you to finish gutting a few yards away before they move in. The bear that killed the outfitter not to far from where I was did not wait). I sang as loud as I could and had it quartered and boned out in 30-40 minutes with the adrenaline pumping, loaded my pack and hauled the rest away from the carcass and talked to my wife on speaker the whole hike out.
These guys saying " if you're scared of bears, don't go in the woods" have never been in these situations. Grizzlies are one of my favorite animals, but if they don't scare you, you're nuts. After being around them for a few years and learning to be safe, that fear can turn into a healthy respect. I wish I saw more of these bears that avoid people at all cost. My house was in a hillside subdivision a mile from timber, and I was butchering a whitetail and throwing the bones out by my truck. 30 minutes into it I had a sow and 2 cubs tearing into the rib cage. When I opened a window to yell, she charged my HOUSE and only stopped at the window cause I yelled even louder.
My friend who lives up in the timber and knows and welcomes the bears is always packing around the house, and has been chased into his shed and fortunately got up in a tractor just in time. He and his family have also been hunted by a griz while elk hunting. They made themselves known when it was 200 yards away and it circled sneakily around the hill. They dove off the rocky hillside and when they got to the bottom the bear was right where they were sitting. His son's shot one a few years back that charged him when they stumbled on its kill that fell dead at his feet.
Another family I know has shot 2 in self defense. One was a charging sow while horn hunting. The other was trying to break into their camper door in the night, while camping with small children.
I wouldn't dream of having a multiple day backcountry camp without an electric fence. Hiking, camping, and hunting unsupervised as a kid would be out of the question. It's a cool place I still hunt and visit, but you don't behave the same way you do anywhere else and I try not to go anywhere alone.
I moved back home where there are "no griz" for now. There are loads of black bear and mountain lion, but I couldn't care less. Hunting and camping is carefree. I don't even carry a sidearm, I take my 2 year old, have food, etc without worry. I don't want a dense population of Grizzlies here. I like it how it is, and I know where to go if I want to see them
Sorry for the novel. I guess the bottom line is, grizzly bears are cool, but not in your back yard ( if you have small kids) and you better not treat actual Grizzly country like any other day in the woods.
 
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Hoosker Doo said:
Very interesting thread. I wanted to comment back on page 1 but figured I had to read the rest of the responses first. It's easy to see that there are a lot of people commenting who have never lived in a grizzly dense area, but also a few who do and have come to terms with risk and adjusted lifestyle.
I have lived in Wyoming my whole life, but only 3 years of those were in a grizzly dense area. I thought the original question was worthy of some intelligent discussion having had perspective of the same type of environment and hunting both with and without griz, but immediately people were super defensive because the OP does not love grizzlies. Almost as bad as politics.
Anyways, here's my take. I grew up in western WY. At 13 I went and shot my own buck, gutted it l, and hauled it home on 4 wheeler. Carefree camping and hiking. At 25 I moved to grizzly capital at the top of the wind river range. Cool wild place, but it didn't take me long to learn I wasn't in Kansas anymore (only a 3 hour drive from where I grew up) After a rainstorm in June we went on a 4 wheeler ride and literally every puddle on the trail had fresh griz track. I took my wife scouting an area for elk (forgot my sidearm) and after seeing the 6th bear sign in only a 1/4 mile and very little elk sign I decided we should look somewhere else.
I still hunted a lot, but sneaking through the timber cow calling is not an option. A kid actually got maulled cow calling while I was there. Griz snuck up and jumped him from behind. I only bow hunted deer at the edges of clearing because I didn't think going into the timber after elk was worth it. The most nerve wracking thing I've ever done was shoot a rag horn at dusk at the top of the mountain 2 miles from the truck. (They do come to gunshots. Some even will wait for you to finish gutting a few yards away before they move in. The bear that killed the outfitter not to far from where I was did not wait). I sang as loud as I could and had it quartered and boned out in 30-40 minutes with the adrenaline pumping, loaded my pack and hauled the rest away from the carcass and talked to my wife on speaker the whole hike out.
These guys saying " if you're scared of bears, don't go in the woods" have never been in these situations. Grizzlies are one of my favorite animals, but if they don't scare you, you're nuts. After being around them for a few years and learning to be safe, that fear can turn into a healthy respect. I wish I saw more of these bears that avoid people at all cost. My house was in a hillside subdivision a mile from timber, and I was butchering a whitetail and throwing the bones out by my truck. 30 minutes into it I had a sow and 2 cubs tearing into the rib cage. When I opened a window to yell, she charged my HOUSE and only stopped at the window cause I yelled even louder.
My friend who lives up in the timber and knows and welcomes the bears is always packing around the house, and has been chased into his shed and fortunately got up in a tractor just in time. He and his family have also been hunted by a griz while elk hunting. They made themselves known when it was 200 yards away and it circled sneakily around the hill. They dove off the rocky hillside and when they got to the bottom the bear was right where they were sitting. His son's shot one a few years back that charged him when they stumbled on its kill that fell dead at his feet.
Another family I know has shot 2 in self defense. One was a charging sow while horn hunting. The other was trying to break into their camper door in the night, while camping with small children.
I wouldn't dream of having a multiple day backcountry camp without an electric fence. Hiking, camping, and hunting unsupervised as a kid would be out of the question. It's a cool place I still hunt and visit, but you don't behave the same way you do anywhere else and I try not to go anywhere alone.
I moved back home where there are "no griz" for now. There are loads of black bear and mountain lion, but I couldn't care less. Hunting and camping is carefree. I don't even carry a sidearm, I take my 2 year old, have food, etc without worry. I don't want a dense population of Grizzlies here. I like it how it is, and I know where to go if I want to see them
Sorry for the novel. I guess the bottom line is, grizzly bears are cool, but not in your back yard ( if you have small kids) and you better not treat actual Grizzly country like any other day in the woods.
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Thanks for the reply… now I’m back on the fence, as my kid gets older do I want to have to limit bringing my kid into the woods because what May happen to him? Pretty sure my wife would divorce me if I made it out and I would have lost my child. Just seems like some steep consequences and for what?

This also seems to contradict all the guys saying you never will see them or they’ll run away. I know they are black bears but I was told the same thing about them and the first two I ever saw charged me, third ran, fourth just watched me and wouldn’t go away until I shot into a tree next to him. First grizzly pushed me and a gf into a river at 2am after waking us up. I’ve seen more bears mess with me than not.
 
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Pikespeak said:
The comment “ They are supposed to be here” is debatable at the onset. Based on what? Animal ranges change constantly without human impact. So to an idealistic state in time of maximum? Also debated is whether people who want something in one state or area should be able to push it onto others. Also, how much control over our environment is allowed, where is the line? Saying bears are supposed to be here is weak to me because it disregards everything else that is continually wiped out for us to exist including wildlife and habitat. You are only applying that argument to bears but disregarding it’s relevance to everything else.
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I would argue they are "supposed to be there" if the actively expand into that area. Ie, they will eventually make it to CO, OR, WA, maybe N CA. I highly doubt there will be any reintroduction effort anywhere.
 
Pikespeak said:
Looking through the literature people who fight back against black bears do drive them off a lot of the time. Doesn't mean that if the bear was determined to kill you couldn't, just that they seem to like an easy meal. But yea if they attack you they are trying to eat you but they are half assed about it. Also, why are you saying without s spray or a gun? I bring all the tools in my toolbox for bear country.

Grizzlies, the more you fight the more they mess you up.

Edited: My poor grammar made a sentence unreadable
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I said no spray or gun because you kept referencing fighting off a black bear implying hand to hand or hand to paw as it were. There is a distinct difference between fighting a bear off vs. spraying or shooting one.
 
If i ever go hunt in grizz country i will be ready. I will have a sidearm, spray and a shotgun with slugs slung over my pack. I like to keep an incendiary grenade on my waist belt and a large whistle. Nothing will stop me from bowhunting the elk rut! Except not having a tag, apparently.
 
S.Clancy said:
I would argue they are "supposed to be there" if the actively expand into that area. Ie, they will eventually make it to CO, OR, WA, maybe N CA. I highly doubt there will be any reintroduction effort anywhere.
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Humm that’s a great point, I don’t agree we should let them expand but I think that’s the way to say what their current range “should” be. Granted, that could mean their range could expand farther than it ever has, but that would be the “natural” extent.

Seriously, that’s a great way to look at it. You pushed my thinking on that one.
 
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Btaylor said:
I said no spray or gun because you kept referencing fighting off a black bear implying hand to hand or hand to paw as it were. There is a distinct difference between fighting a bear off vs. spraying or shooting one.
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A firm whack on the nose with a cast-iron pan is said to do the trick, too, but I’d imagine it would be a considerable challenge to connect a blow against an animal with multiple times human strength. :)
 
mossyoak52 said:
Never said we should ,but some on here think certain species should be wiped out because they are afraid of them …… they have the mindset that anything that threatens their lifestyle needs to be eliminated and I'm NOT ok with that mindset
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Pretty sure I read on another post that you were against AR platforms, pistols, and semi-autos… I hate to call you out, but that is quite hypocritical.

Actually, I enjoyed calling you out.
 
KHNC said:
If i ever go hunt in grizz country i will be ready. I will have a sidearm, spray and a shotgun with slugs slung over my pack. I like to keep an incendiary grenade on my waist belt and a large whistle. Nothing will stop me from bowhunting the elk rut! Except not having a tag, apparently.
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Oh yeah, and last year my buddy hunting up there with his dad were charged by a grizz while bugling, and then they had 2 elk "claimed" by them and most of the meat was lost. So I agree, the incendiary grenade may give you the added confidence you need. 😂
 
Btaylor said:
Naw that only works on gators and cats. ;)
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Cast iron pan to the nose > black bear.... One of my neighbors chased a sow and 2 cubs out of their house with a skillet. Now the bear was only in the house because of the open screen door and burgers cooking on the stove. Same bear dragged one of my bear proof trash cans 1/2 way down my drive way trying to get it open.
 
displacedtexan said:
What's wrong with people (be it living, recreating, or working) not expanding into a range they don't feel safe?

Don't want to live with cold winters? Don't move to Canada. Don't want to live in the heat? Mexico isn't for you.

Don't want to raise cattle in bear country? Have your ranch in Iowa.

I don't think humans have the right or need to reshape ecosystems for their own comfort and profit.
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Is that why Texas is covered in high fence operations? Reshaping the landscape for comfort and profit. Maybe they should try Iowa as well.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
I'm deaf. If I ever go into grizzly country it would be with at least one large dog - let him deal with (eat) the dog and I'm headed out. Better yet, not going where I'm at more of a disadvantage than anywhere else.

Grew up around black bears and they respected us. Were always there but rarely seen - had a driveway alarm and would see em crossing the driveway a lot. Cubs playing in trees and such - fun stuff. fwiw, I have no desire to ever shoot a bear - none at all.

Any bear that will charge a house in aggression deserves to die. Just saying. Folks have aggressive dogs put down all the time - what's the diff between an aggressive bear and an aggressive dog, besides about 500 pounds? LoL!

I guess it gives folks a thrill to know they might get mauled or eaten when they are in the woods. Exciting, I'm sure. Helps you feel alive. Nothing wrong with that, just accepting the risk and enjoying it.
 
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