How much money after everything is paid for?

[*zap*]

live with some self imposed adversity for your lifestyle...

 

[fngTony]

You don’t need a crazy high-paying job to be saving $2-3k/mo. Most people that aren’t a single income for a household with multiple children, or living in an extremely high cost of living area can easily accomplish this by living more frugally than the average American.

I know this is blasphemy on rokslide where you can’t be a serious hunter without $10k in optics and a $5k rifle setup. This is probably the my favorite blog on frugality.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/

With strict budgeting, it’s not crazy to get down to a budget of $25-30k per year for a single person in America. You only need a $60-70k/yr job to save $2k/mo on top of that budget which isn’t far off from the median salary. It’s just a very different lifestyle and spending level than the average American.

Am I understanding correctly, a single person in a low cost of living area can live off $30k? After deductions that’s about $1800 net a month.

 

[maxx075]

Am I understanding correctly, a single person in a low cost of living area can live off $30k? After deductions that’s about $1800 net a month.

My rent is more than that...

 

[*zap*]

I could do 1800 a month e-z.

 

[mlevimadden]

Am I understanding correctly, a single person in a low cost of living area can live off $30k? After deductions that’s about $1800 net a month.

I wasn’t including deductions in that number. That was total spending on expenses and housing. But just for fun I’ll shoot for your $1,800 number.

I am in Denver which definitely doesn’t qualify as a low-cost of living area. There are plenty of $800/mo listings on apartments.com for people subletting rooms. Call it $1k/mo with your share of utilities and renters insurance.

$300/mo or $75/week for groceries
$200/mo for gas and auto insurance (you could lower this living in a metro area using public transit or biking)
$100/mo for high-deductible health care plan mainly paid by your employer, vision, and dental

That’s $1600/mo for what I would call basic survival needs. So you’d still have another $200/mo leftover to save up for a trip, hunting gear, or go out to a restaurant once a week.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I’m DINK and my wife has a high paying job, after we pay our credit card, mortgage and whatever bills, we put around 10k into savings each month.

 

[maxx075]

I’m DINK and my wife has a high paying job, after we pay our credit card, mortgage and whatever bills, we put around 10k into savings each month.

Your wife an OnlyFans model? Cause damn.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Your wife an OnlyFans model? Cause damn.

No she works in the medical field and I make ok money. We bring in around 250k/year together, drive old cars, don’t have kids or any debt outside of our mortgage.

Things weren’t like this until a few years back around the time I turned 40, in turning 45 in a month so it’s really just been the last 4-5 years when things picked up and started getting easy.

 

[mlevimadden]

Your wife an OnlyFans model? Cause damn.

There are plenty of frugal couples out there making $200k/yr pre-tax, living off $60k/yr, and saving $10k/mo. It's extremely common in the FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) groups and honestly doesn't even feel like extreme budgeting like the example I laid out above.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

There are plenty of frugal couples out there making $200k/yr pre-tax, living off $60k/yr, and saving $10k/mo. It's extremely common in the FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) groups and honestly doesn't even feel like extreme budgeting like the example I laid out above.

That’s the whole thing, I don’t feel like we are even doing any extreme budgeting, it’s all just a balance. We still take a solid vacation or 2 each year and I get to hunt as much as I want.

But I drive a 2001 truck and my wife has a 2011 both are reliable and we don’t have to make payments on them while folks I know who earn significantly less are taking loans out to buy 40-50k vehicles. I drive a snowmobile that I paid 8k cash for while my friends are taking loans to drive the new 17k machines….i don’t have bills on my machine and I still bring back caribou. My 16ft jet boat is paid off while guys I know are taking HUgE loans to get big old boats that they hardly use.

 

[fngTony]

I wasn’t including deductions in that number. That was total spending on expenses and housing. But just for fun I’ll shoot for your $1,800 number.

I am in Denver which definitely doesn’t qualify as a low-cost of living area. There are plenty of $800/mo listings on apartments.com for people subletting rooms. Call it $1k/mo with your share of utilities and renters insurance.

$300/mo or $75/week for groceries
$200/mo for gas and auto insurance (you could lower this living in a metro area using public transit or biking)
$100/mo for high-deductible health care plan mainly paid by your employer, vision, and dental

That’s $1600/mo for what I would call basic survival needs. So you’d still have another $200/mo leftover to save up for a trip, hunting gear, or go out to a restaurant once a week.

We’re in the same area, gonna have to check but I think your figures are low.

 

[mlevimadden]

That’s the whole thing, I don’t feel like we are even doing any extreme budgeting, it’s all just a balance. We still take a solid vacation or 2 each year and I get to hunt as much as I want.

But I drive a 2001 truck and my wife has a 2011 both are reliable and we don’t have to make payments on them while folks I know who earn significantly less are taking loans out to buy 40-50k vehicles. I drive a snowmobile that I paid 8k cash for while my friends are taking loans to drive the new 17k machines….i don’t have bills on my machine and I still bring back caribou. My 16ft jet boat is paid off while guys I know are taking HUgE loans to get big old boats that they hardly use.

We're on the same page for sure.

My first job out of college, I was making $75k and my wife (girlfriend at the time) was making $60k. We were still living like cheap college kids out of school, and had more money than we knew what to do with. That was when I started diving into financial forums about retirement and investing.

I became close friends with a guy at my work and went on a bunch of hunts together. He was a good friend and hunting partner, but his family finances were an absolute trainwreck. He and his wife made $30-40k/yr more than my wife and I did, but they always had brand new vehicles in the driveway of an excessive house for their needs, camper, side-by-side, ATV's, etc. that were all owned by the bank and also upgraded every few years. When our work closed down, he cashed out his 401k to buy another truck. I lost track of the number of times his card would get declined just buying basic stuff at the convenience store.

I think it's telling that the skeptical guys replying in this thread immediately assume the people saving a higher-than-average amount of money have some insane income, and they don't even consider that it's the spending side of the equation. The spending side is by far the more powerful side of the equation especially when planning for retirement if you plan to keep the same lifestyle.

 

[.204smokechaser]

Shouldn’t compare yourself to others but I do.

I could care less what I save every month. I’m not paying payments on side by sides, motorcycles, trailers, big trucks that people don’t have a need for etc. max out the Roth every year and that’s all I care about. Can I afford the things I want to do? Yep!

Those people that are in loads of debt should look in the mirror and ask themselves what they’re gaining having brand new toys.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

We're on the same page for sure.

My first job out of college, I was making $75k and my wife (girlfriend at the time) was making $60k. We were still living like cheap college kids out of school, and had more money than we knew what to do with. That was when I started diving into financial forums about retirement and investing.

I became close friends with a guy at my work and went on a bunch of hunts together. He was a good friend and hunting partner, but his family finances were an absolute trainwreck. He and his wife made $30-40k/yr more than my wife and I did, but they always had brand new vehicles in the driveway of an excessive house for their needs, camper, side-by-side, ATV's, etc. that were all owned by the bank and also upgraded every few years. When our work closed down, he cashed out his 401k to buy another truck. I lost track of the number of times his card would get declined just buying basic stuff at the convenience store.

I think it's telling that the skeptical guys replying in this thread immediately assume the people saving a higher-than-average amount of money have some insane income, and they don't even consider that it's the spending side of the equation. The spending side is by far the more powerful side of the equation especially when planning for retirement if you plan to keep the same lifestyle.

I think we have the same friend lol.

My buddy makes about the same as me but isn’t married so one income. He just took a loan for 15k for a snow mobile when he had a good one, he then took another loan for like 46k to get a jet boat when what he had already was just fine. He also spends 3-300/week on expensive whiskey and complains about the cost of living and how he had to work a second job to not go broke. The guy is 10 years older than me and rents an apartment rather than owning a home.

To each their own, I realize everybody takes their own path I just can’t help feeling like that dude is making poor choices.

 

[cb2176]

Currently, about 50 cents.

 

[mlevimadden]

I think we have the same friend lol.

My buddy makes about the same as me but isn’t married so one income. He just took a loan for 15k for a snow mobile when he had a good one, he then took another loan for like 46k to get a jet boat when what he had already was just fine. He also spends 3-300/week on expensive whiskey and complains about the cost of living and how he had to work a second job to not go broke. The guy is 10 years older than me and rents an apartment rather than owning a home.

To each their own, I realize everybody takes their own path I just can’t help feeling like that dude is making poor choices.

We just might. I felt so bad for my buddy when he would tell me about the purchases. He would be all excited about a new toy, but all I could see was how much it was costing him. I even gave him a copy of Dave Ramseys book after I read it, but I didn’t push him on it and he never read it.

I try not to judge when I see the threads on here about “which brand new 3/4 diesel should I buy” to pull my toy hauler and side-by-side up to hunting camp, but it makes me cringe. I fully support capitalism and people being free to spend their hard-earned money on what they want, but the problem is most people don’t actually understand the trade-offs they are making with these purchases.

Instead of financing a $180k truck, toyhauler, and side-by-side setup and putting that amount into an SP500 investment account would easily knock 5+ years off most people’s retirement timeline. There is zero chance I would trade 5 years of my life for that purchase, and I don’t think a lot of people making the purchase would either if they actually knew the trade-off.

 

[KsRancher]

We're on the same page for sure.

My first job out of college, I was making $75k and my wife (girlfriend at the time) was making $60k. We were still living like cheap college kids out of school, and had more money than we knew what to do with. That was when I started diving into financial forums about retirement and investing.

I became close friends with a guy at my work and went on a bunch of hunts together. He was a good friend and hunting partner, but his family finances were an absolute trainwreck. He and his wife made $30-40k/yr more than my wife and I did, but they always had brand new vehicles in the driveway of an excessive house for their needs, camper, side-by-side, ATV's, etc. that were all owned by the bank and also upgraded every few years. When our work closed down, he cashed out his 401k to buy another truck. I lost track of the number of times his card would get declined just buying basic stuff at the convenience store.

I think it's telling that the skeptical guys replying in this thread immediately assume the people saving a higher-than-average amount of money have some insane income, and they don't even consider that it's the spending side of the equation. The spending side is by far the more powerful side of the equation especially when planning for retirement if you plan to keep the same lifestyle.

Not skeptical at all. I believe the numbers on this thread. I am not saying that the incomes are INSANE. But they sure are not the norm. They are 3-4 times the average. So that is the main difference in my opinion. Call it envy, jealousy or whatever you want. But it's just facts, these incomes you guys are talking are not even close to most Americans.


My wife and I are raising 4 kids off of significantly less gross wage combined that what you guys are putting into savings.

 

[MuleyFever]

There are plenty of frugal couples out there making $200k/yr pre-tax, living off $60k/yr, and saving $10k/mo. It's extremely common in the FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) groups and honestly doesn't even feel like extreme budgeting like the example I laid out above.

That seems like it would be fairly hard on that salary. If you had no pretax deductions for health insurance or retirement you are only taking home about 12k/mo. After maxing out your 401k, HSA, and deductions for health insurance you are at about 9k/mo after taxes.

 

[mlevimadden]

That seems like it would be fairly hard on that salary. If you had no pretax deductions for health insurance or retirement you are only taking home about 12k/mo. After maxing out your 401k, HSA, and deductions for health insurance you are at about 9k/mo after taxes.

Any couple saving that much should be maxing out 401k and HSA as long as they aren’t super retirement heavy already to lower tax burden, so I was accounting for that even though I didn’t spell it out in my post. I included these retirement savings in the $10k/mo savings rate, as I don't see how it would be fair to leave them out when it would be $4k/mo worth of savings maxing out those accounts.

 

[mlevimadden]

Not skeptical at all. I believe the numbers on this thread. I am not saying that the incomes are INSANE. But they sure are not the norm. They are 3-4 times the average. So that is the main difference in my opinion. Call it envy, jealousy or whatever you want. But it's just facts, these incomes you guys are talking are not even close to most Americans.


My wife and I are raising 4 kids off of significantly less gross wage combined that what you guys are putting into savings.

Sorry, I hope my post didn't come off as judgmental or shaming people that aren't saving a bunch of money every month, as that was not my intent. I tried to disclaim my posts that it's way harder to save money with kids given the costs in our current economy (daycare/child care, groceries, etc.). I am feeling this myself currently, which was why I tried to disclaim in my first post that our savings rate as DINK's was very different than it is now.

I wouldn't call the FIRE community mainstream Americans either, so we are aligned there. I would liken it to comparing Roksliders to your average hunter. People in the FIRE community are extremely passionate about finance/wealth management and make other sacrifices in their lives to pursue a goal. Just like some Roksliders may sacrifice their financial health for a sheep hunt they can't really afford.

I did a quick google search though to see how extreme my $200k/yr example was, and it looks like the latest data shows just over 12% of American households make at least $200k/yr. I can't tell from the articles if that is gross income or AGI, but maybe someone with better google skills than me can. That's obviously way off the average at 50%, but I was never trying to say that. It is also far away from the top 1%, and I would say 1 in 8 households is not an extreme outlier.

Financial health is just a subject I'm passionate about that the average American seems undereducated on, so I try to share information I have learned in hopes it helps someone else better their current situation like it did me a decade ago. My posts are trying to come from a place of challenging conventional American viewpoints to help people better their finances, rather than saying look how well I'm doing. I get that it's hard to get this across in text though, so hopefully this helps.