How much higher wil a .270 shoot@12,000 feet????

[Deleted member 8-15-23]

Again thx, shot this gun for over 50 years. Grizz. Moose, many elk, over 200 deer. At least 12 pushing 500 yards. Will be at the range multiple times and have it dialed. Thx again. Just like bows, my 10 year old pse was the new shiny bow, now its junk? Nope. Now my new carbon is the bomb and in 10 years it will also be junk.

 

[MattB]

So the elevation has no effect on the guide's rifle? Or are you saying it's better to try and not understand anything and just trust your guide? What do you think the odds are that if he asks his guide the same question he asked in here, he gets the correct answer vs. The guide telling him to get a new scope, learn bullet drop to 500 yards and Nightforce are the only scopes on this planet that work?

In my experience the knowledgeable guide will simply say inside of 300 yards it is minimal and then re-assure him that his shot will likely fall <300 yards like previously stated.

I would bet that the guide would know the velocity of his rifle’s load (rather than assuming) and the exact drops over distance - and would assume his hunters would know the same for a hunt of this magnitude. And that even though the average shots are 200-300 yards, that his hunter would be prepared to take a shot beyond 300 yards if the situation dictated.

Approaching a hunt of a lifetime by mailing it in on one aspect of the pre-hunt preparation - likely the easiest one to address - just strikes me as sophomoric.

 

[cmahoney]

Again thx, shot this gun for over 50 years. Grizz. Moose, many elk, over 200 deer. At least 12 pushing 500 yards. Will be at the range multiple times and have it dialed. Thx again. Just like bows, my 10 year old pse was the new shiny bow, now its junk? Nope. Now my new carbon is the bomb and in 10 years it will also be junk.

How many rounds do you figure you have through that rifle barrel?


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[HuntHarder]

I would bet that the guide would know the velocity of his rifle’s load (rather than assuming) and the exact drops over distance - and would assume his hunters would know the same for a hunt of this magnitude. And that even though the average shots are 200-300 yards, that his hunter would be prepared to take a shot beyond 300 yards if the situation dictated.

Approaching a hunt of a lifetime by mailing it in on one aspect of the pre-hunt preparation - likely the easiest one to address - just strikes me as sophomoric.

I get it, it's hard to imagine the vast majority of hunters aren't like a lot of us Roksliders. They could give 2 shits about cliff testing, drop testing, ballistic solutions. I personally might agree with some comments but that's me, not the OP.

Thread reminds me of the SxS threads. Guy asks for guys who own SxS's to weigh on on certain brands, then the anti SxSr's step in and try to convince the OP why their Toyota or Suzuki is better.... Answer the OP's question and move on.

 

[Sierra Hunter]

Again thx, shot this gun for over 50 years. Grizz. Moose, many elk, over 200 deer. At least 12 pushing 500 yards. Will be at the range multiple times and have it dialed. Thx again. Just like bows, my 10 year old pse was the new shiny bow, now its junk? Nope. Now my new carbon is the bomb and in 10 years it will also be junk.

Having been up there and seeing missed shots and opportunities I would say just get in the best shape you can without hurting yourself, feel comfortable with your equipment and practice shooting as much as you can. I think shooting skills, angles distance and managing the mental weight of that shot after a big stalk and oil tag are more important than being in remi Warren mtn shape… but that does help if it takes more than one stalk. Good luck.

 

[SDHNTR]

I know when I ran out of time and finally put my bow up on my desert sheep hunt and pulled out a gun (with a basic 3x9, but a good one, before the dialing craze) it was a one and done affair. Glass up the sheep, stalk into reasonable range and poke a hole in it. It wasn’t that hard. Sheep aren’t mule deer, in my experience.

 

[Chuckybmd]

The vast majority of hunters don’t care about any details beyond point, bang and flop. That worked for 100 years. The transition to a greater understanding of ballistics isn’t going to happen overnight and isn’t going to happen at all for a lot of people. I’m ok with that.

Just imagine what would happen if everyone in the woods was a top tier hunter and marksman, with the best equipment available and extensive knowledge to use it. There would be no game left. We should be more welcoming of guys like the OP who have made it clear they don’t want to hunt that way.

I think there is some room for middle ground as well. Personally, I like to understand the physics.

In reality, I take great comfort in knowing what variables, matter and which ones don’t at specific ranges.

I think that you can know a lot about shooting without getting into the greater than 500 range shots that everyone is talking about.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

All the charts, graphs, and information on a box of ammo are only guidelines. Actual experiences are what really matters. Get out and shoot under actual condition, or as close as possible. There is no substitute.

 

[SDHNTR]

I think there is some room for middle ground as well. Personally, I like to understand the physics.

In reality, I take great comfort in knowing what variables, matter and which ones don’t at specific ranges.

I think that you can know a lot about shooting without getting into the greater than 500 range shots that everyone is talking about.

This is my take as well. I see too many tacticians in the field. Rambo's who think hunting is just shooting. They can snipe a fruit fly at 800 yards, but lack woodsmanship skills. Couldn't find an animal unless they trip over it. Couldn't stalk a beef cow inside of 300 yards.

Then there's the trad bowyer who could count coup on any animal in the woods, but then couldn't hit it with a weapon if he had to because he's not interested in how projectiles fly through the air beyond 30 yards.

Find some middle ground between those two and you've got a killing machine.

Anyone know @RosinBag here? That dude is a woodsman, AND obsesses over details and ballistics. Gun or bow, he's a killing machine. A tag in his hands is an automatic punch.

Tags are hard to draw. Mountain hunting is physically and mentally difficult. You can damn well be sure that if there is a variable within my control, I'm going to address it. Like my equipment and my understanding of it. But that's just me. Some guys just wing it, in life and in hunting. That's their choice.

The beauty of a quality scope, rifle and mounting system that is built to dial at longer range is that you can ALSO be lethal with it at shorter range. The same is not true with a traditional rifle set up that will only handle one half of that previous sentence. When I enter the field, I like the ability to do both. But again, that's just me.

My issue with the OP's take, and he's a good guy actually, is the 500 yard part. I'm going to be frank here. If he just left it at 2-300, rock on with your classic .270 and 3-9 duplex. It's perfectly suitable for that. But move that target out to 500 with the same gun/scope and without a very detailed understanding of ballistics (environmental effects and true velocity, not what it says on the box) and intimate knowledge of your reticle's subtensions (most hunters likely don’t even know what that means) you should not be slinging bullets at 500 yards. That's way beyond maximum point blank range and you are just guessing. Animals deserve more. There’s no need for the ol Kentucky holdover when we have better tools these days!

So OP, if you want to use your current set up, keep it to 300 yards or so. You may have gone beyond that in the past, but be honest with yourself and how you did that. If you want to go beyond that range, you owe it to yourself and the animal to upgrade your equipment and/or your knowledge base.

Happy father's day.

 

[KsRancher]

@psemach1evolve

Archery analogies for you:
your scope is the equivalent of a trophy ridge react sight.
Factory ammo box velocity numbers are like ibo speeds.
500 yards with a rifle is comparable to 90 yards with a bow, ie way beyond what most people can do without a lot of disciplined practice at that distance or further.

Maybe that helps you understand the concerns of other posters. Bring that same care and attention to detail you've honed with a bow into your rifle shooting and hunting.

I suppose every person is different. If I get an animal 500yds or under with rifle, it's dead. And it's just a plain ol rem 700 with a leupold 4.5-14×50 and no dials. 90yds with my bow and I wouldn't even think about shooting at anything. My 50yd bow shot would be more comparable to 500yd rifle shot. To the OP. You have a plenty good enough setup to go kill your sheep. Are there better tools out there. Yes, probably are. But I have never bought into needing the absolute best of everything. Main reason being it's out of my budget. If you know your holdovers shooting on flat ground at sea level. Get there a little early and do some shooting at your elevation. Your uphill and down hill will be the part that you will need to know were to hold higher than or lower than normal.

 

[Deleted member 8-15-23]

I could borrow my brother's custum 6.5prc or his 300prc, too much history with my .270. Jack O'Conner did ok with it. I won't be taking a shot over 300, really no need to. I also could care less if it's a 164 or a 177 ram also.

 

[amassi]

How many rounds do you figure you have through that rifle barrel?


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Assuming most of those were 1 shot kills I’d bet less than 400.


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[Deleted member 8-15-23]

My .270? 600 rounds. My brother's custum prcs, 150. After 1000 rounds the prc barrels are toast.

 

[Kurts86]

I could borrow my brother's custum 6.5prc or his 300prc, too much history with my .270. Jack O'Conner did ok with it. I won't be taking a shot over 300, really no need to. I also could care less if it's a 164 or a 177 ram also.

I don’t think anyone has said the rifle was the problem but rather the optics. Rifle mechanical accuracy is almost a non factor for a 300 yard shot on big game.

Additionally if you have the same rifle barrel for 50 years it’s either shot out or it has seen less than 2-3 boxes of ammo per year. Aka a lot of hunting and little practice.

I can’t emphasize this enough but it would really help to become a student of ballistics and a class is the fastest way to do that. What is a $600 course when you a spending 5 figures on a guided hunt?

 

[Deleted member 8-15-23]

I don’t think anyone has said the rifle was the problem but rather the optics. Rifle mechanical accuracy is almost a non factor for a 300 yard shot on big game.

Additionally if you have the same rifle barrel for 50 years it’s either shot out or it has seen less than 2-3 boxes of ammo per year. Aka a lot of hunting and little practice.

I can’t emphasize this enough but it would really help to become a student of ballistics and a class is the fastest way to do that. What is a $600 course when you a spending 5 figures on a guided hunt?

Had my 06 supergrade and my .270 scoped. All good.

 

[dtrkyman]

Rifle guys are funny, dude said he’s keeping shots inside a reasonable distance, lay the crosshairs on the target and shoot!

Looking forward to the pics! Good luck!

I’m a bow hunter, I’ve shot rifles a little, every one I’ve ever shot puts rounds right where the crosshairs were! Getting the shot is a challenge, not so much the shot!


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[Deleted member 8-15-23]

Rifle guys are funny, dude said he’s keeping shots inside a reasonable distance, lay the crosshairs on the target and shoot!

Looking forward to the pics! Good luck!

I’m a bow hunter, I’ve shot rifles a little, every one I’ve ever shot puts rounds right where the crosshairs were! Getting the shot is a challenge, not so much the shot!


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Not in the whites.

 

[wind gypsy]

I think folks have too much confidence in “the guides rifle”. Lots of guides out there who aren’t gear guys and don’t have their stuff dialed either. Their job is to find the game and get hunter in position for a shot.

I’d swap out the vortex with @willfrye027’s nightforce just for less likelihood of losing zero and proceed to go whack a nice sheep.

 

[Deleted member 8-15-23]

Dawn on me today, I upgrade my Pse every 5 years, my new one is $2400 retail, but I shoot the same classic model 70s for 60 years? Tomorrow I am getting a 6.5prc bagara, solid glass and use it for my sheep hunt. Thx to the honest input, you guys pushed me over the edge to upgrade 60 years. Thx.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Your model 70 was fine, the optic is what we were ragging on. Bergara can be hit or miss, tikka cost about the same or less and are consistently very good.