How many is too many

[Newtosavage]

^^^^ You left out the research part

research is a lot easier when you already know what questions to ask.

Look, we get it. You have no doubt worked hard to know what you know, and you think everyone else should have to work just as hard. But I'd bet if you looked back at your early days of hunting, you had a mentor that answered a lot of your questions, or people who provided examples for you. We all did.

 

[wind gypsy]

It's a real conundrum. I'm relatively new to Western hunting and have greatly shortened my learning curve through the internet and Podcasts. OnX, GoHunt, and other resources help me with application strategy and scouting. All of these things have me hunting "honey holes" that I might not have found without all of the resources currently available. I'm sure that is very frustrating for people who found these areas and developed tactics over much more time and effort. Now that I know enough I wish the Newbergs and open information sharers on forums would put a lid on it - I know that is hypocritical.

I went to college in ND largely for waterfowl hunting opportunities. The increasing influx of NR hunters, the way their tactics impacted bird patterns, and reduced access over time was aggravating. I haven't went back for a few years because the juice is no longer worth the squeeze to me. I'm sure its the same in the west. There are a lot of people living out west for the hunting opportunities and sacrificing wages and creature comforts to do it. I get why they get frustrated when the reason they moved there is diluted by people who don't.

Here's one to get the hackles up... Those damn Texans. Always seemed entitled to ND waterfowl and were quick to start barking about increased NR restrictions or support outfitters locking up land. The same attitudes seem pretty obvious on western forums. "It's public land, tough shit" is easier to say when you've already turned your state into a pay to play mecca for shooting penned animals. Kind of like Californians moving to Denver, SLC, Bozeman and trying to make it CA. Being like TX isn't always desirable either..

 

[LostArra]

So why isn't that interest translating into increased numbers of hunters?

Something isn't connecting here.

Treestand deer hunters from elk-less states are wanting to expand their hunting opportunities for a different animal so they are heading "out west" where the elk are. Most don't want to jack around with the point scam and wait 10 years to go hunt so they go to OTC tag states. As a result, the hunter numbers are not increasing but a lot more of the existing hunters are looking for elk opportunities and they can get congregated in a few places. Kind of like a Texas corn feeder.

 

[Newtosavage]

Kind of like a Texas corn feeder.

LOL, but that isn't a recent phenomenon though is it?

And if states like CO are experiencing blossoming elk populations, then it's kind of a win-win right?

btw, Texas has plenty of elk. I could pay to hunt them in the Davis mts. if I really wanted to, but I'd much rather hunt in the aspens and doug fir. Hell, if it was just about killing a specific animal, I'd never have to leave Texas. I can "hunt" just about any animal in the world somewhere in Texas these days. LOL

 

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

It's a real conundrum. I'm relatively new to Western hunting and have greatly shortened my learning curve through the internet and Podcasts. OnX, GoHunt, and other resources help me with application strategy and scouting. All of these things have me hunting "honey holes" that I might not have found without all of the resources currently available. I'm sure that is very frustrating for people who found these areas and developed tactics over much more time and effort. Now that I know enough I wish the Newbergs and open information sharers on forums would put a lid on it - I know that is hypocritical.

I went to college in ND largely for waterfowl hunting opportunities. The increasing influx of NR hunters, the way their tactics impacted bird patterns, and reduced access over time was aggravating. I haven't went back for a few years because the juice is no longer worth the squeeze to me. I'm sure its the same in the west. There are a lot of people living out west for the hunting opportunities and sacrificing wages and creature comforts to do it. I get why they get frustrated when the reason they moved there is diluted by people who don't.

Here's one to get the hackles up... Those damn Texans. Always seemed entitled to ND waterfowl and were quick to start barking about increased NR restrictions or support outfitters locking up land. The same attitudes seem pretty obvious on western forums. "It's public land, tough shit" is easier to say when you've already turned your state into a pay to play mecca for shooting penned animals. Kind of like Californians moving to Denver, SLC, Bozeman and trying to make it CA. Being like TX isn't always desirable either..

This has been the most well thought out and well articulated thoughts on why some of y’all get your feathers ruffled and I can understand that point of view. Well up until the Texas and Texans part...now your just being and ass hole. Lololol. I kid I kid.

Now that we’ve hashed this all out, cam we please talk about the major issue everyone is skirtin sound? I need to hear more about these honey holes. Lololol. I kid. I kid. Kind of. Seriously.

 

[Newtosavage]

Being like TX isn't always desirable either..

I couldn't agree more, which is why I look forward to going to CO every year to actually HUNT.

Look, I get it. I understand the OP's frustration. Had I started elk hunting 25 years ago, I'd probably feel the same way about present-day me, walking up on myself in Colorado. LOL

I've said the same about some public lands here in Texas, although it's residents that are now overpopulating those limited hunt areas I used to enjoy.

But I always try to remember that more hunters out there is a good thing. It really is. That's hard to take sometimes, but it really is a good thing for us all.

 

[cnelk]

"And if states like CO are experiencing blossoming elk populations, then it's kind of a win-win right? "

But Colorado is not experiencing this.
In fact, this year there are several units that have reduced tag opportunities than in the past.
Once that cycle continues, so will the restrictions.

Just wait for the 2020 -2024 BGSS and it will show it

 

[cnelk]

research is a lot easier when you already know what questions to ask.

Look, we get it. You have no doubt worked hard to know what you know, and you think everyone else should have to work just as hard. But I'd bet if you looked back at your early days of hunting, you had a mentor that answered a lot of your questions, or people who provided examples for you. We all did.

No you dont get it.

I have a specific email address that is set up for anyone PMs me a question or two, I then converse with them via email.
I just looked and there are over 1000 emails that are nothing but talking about hunting, and mostly elk hunting.

Its just the lame, dumb ass questions that keep getting repeated that everyone is getting tired of.

And no, its not like your mommy and daddy told you - THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A DUMB QUESTION! - as it happens on here and everywhere else all the time.

 

[Newtosavage]

Sounds to me like you need a break from the forum if it's causing you that much frustration.

 

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

No you dont get it.

I have a specific email address that is set up for anyone PMs me a question or two, I then converse with them via email.
I just looked and there are over 1000 emails that are nothing but talking about hunting, and mostly elk hunting.

Its just the lame, dumb ass questions that keep getting repeated that everyone is getting tired of.

And no, its not like your mommy and daddy told you - THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A DUMB QUESTION! - as it happens on here and everywhere else all the time.

Geez, guy. I hope life gets better for you tommorrow.

 

[cnelk]

Oh life is all good. Thanks for you Texas guys thinking of me tho!

Got those small game licenses bought yet? You can get them today! haha!

 

[LongWayAround]

Jesus Christ. Another one of these threads. Have you guys ever stopped to think that y’all were new hunters once, as well? I guess that’s a convenient fact that y’all want to ignore. It’s PUBLIC land. If you want to help a new guy out, do it. If you don’t want to help a new guy out, don’t. But the the guy that just left the gun shop with his first new rifle has just as much right to hunt public land as the guy who was born in the mountains with a rifle in his hand and killed his first elk before his first birthday. The sense of entitlement on this sight is gettin out of hand.

I worked with a guy who thought I should tell him where I hunt because I sporadically find success and "it's public land". I told him that I work hard to find animals and he should try the same.

Everyone wants a handout.

Go hunting don't expect the world to give you their spots. Better yet, don't ask, figure it out.

Anytime I'm at a social function and the topic turns to hunting, especially successful hunting, there's always the guy that wants to know "where". I don't care where you go and I don't care to share where I go. Not the proverbial "honey hole" or the unit. Don't ask, don't tell.

 

[Newtosavage]

I worked with a guy who thought I should tell him where I hunt because I sporadically find success and "it's public land". I told him that I work hard to find animals and he should try the same.

Everyone wants a handout.

Go hunting don't expect the world to give you their spots. Better yet, don't ask, figure it out.

Anytime I'm at a social function and the topic turns to hunting, especially successful hunting, there's always the guy that wants to know "where". I don't care where you go and I don't care to share where I go. Not the proverbial "honey hole" or the unit. Don't ask, don't tell.

Not "everyone" wants a handout.

Cabin fever setting in? There is a lot of grumpiness going 'round here I'd say.

I just don't get why it burns some people so bad to be asked a simple question. If I don't want to tell someone "where" then I tell them politely, "where I find them!" and smile real big. Same with fishing and the age-old "where did you catch them?" uh, right in the mouth, that's where...

You can be tight-lipped about your spots without being a complete A-hole.

 

[Newtosavage]

Oh life is all good. Thanks for you Texas guys thinking of me tho!

Yea, we're friendly like that.

 

[mwebs]

Lots of good takes, lots of interesting takes . I started this thread after a conversation about which zone we would be hunting this year due to overcrowding in our current zone so probably should have taken a breath first. Last year we hunting every part of our unit and found it almost impossible to get away from guys, still killed elk but that is not the experience I am looking for when elk hunting.. We actually had a Texan camped on the road we base out of and shared some tenderloin with him one night when we were back cleaning up the meat, it was the first time he ate elk so I'm not all hate toward NR. So we are switching zones and will be learning a different mountain range all over again, just frustrating to throw the knowledge we have gained on a unit out the window.

 

[Newtosavage]

Man, I love learning new territory. After switching from SW CO two years ago to the area West of Denver, I'm eager to go somewhere new now, for a whole new experience. To me, that's the beauty of hunting places like CO with abundant public land. Who wants to see the same scenery year after year? I can do that on my deer lease or the little tracts of public land we have around here. Actually, I have done that, for years, which is probably why I'm always excited about learning a new area. To me at least, that's what hunting is all about.

 

[bluetick78]

I am originally from Wisconsin although I haven't lived there for a long time, so I feel like I see both sides of the argument... But give me some honest opinions on the new army that invades the western otc states every year and this forum's (and other forums impacts on it)? Everyone including some of my best friends that hunt whitetail, out of a stand on private land want to come out and hunt elk on the "unlimited" public land (I used to hunt on public Wisconsin land but that is a whole other thread, that includes 1000s of people ). However it becomes extremely small in a hurry as a lot of us have experienced. How can we balance sharing knowledge against feeding the army? Do we even want to share the knowledge at this point? Why do we post open knowledge on areas on here or even PMs? I think this is worth a constructive thread outside of the bashing whatever guy starts a thread that says "First OTC, DIY, Western, I can't believe my wife let me do it..." I know my friends will never realize how small it gets very quickly. Yea 75% of that unit is public... You better believe everyone on this forum is looking at the same areas... The last 6 years of hunting in this state have taught me you better work 1000 times harder than you think to have the experience you wanted, and I absolutely do not want that to be a challenge to the bros of the world because I have met enough of you on the FS roads. I have lurked for years and every-time someone comes on and says hey just bought my tag OTC, DYI (apparently acronyms are cool), it kills me and I know they will bugle on every ridge accessible by ATV or trail head. I am not better than anyone else, but I do feel like I have a different approach to the hunt than the out-of-towners and that doesn't help my perception. So where is the line drawn?

After reading a good part of this thread and hearing every argument and idea that I've already heard a thousand times, I'm going to recommend that you do a few things as a fellow Idahoan.
1. Go join the fight to save our public lands. Idaho's legislature is waging an all out war on our public lands AS WE SPEAK! Go join in now....or forever hold your peace.
2. Get your ass off Rokslide, and take this perceived "issue" to your Fish and Game commissioner. Tell someone that can do something about it. Be professional, be eloquent, and have facts. A bunch of baccy-spittin redneck BS will get you an equally intelligent answer.

 

[String&stick]

I have done fine filling my tags, but looking at Google Earth and seeing "millions of acres of public land" and actually finding areas that hold elk and not hunters is a different animal. Guys can say get off the trails and you will be alone all they want but I find that less and less possible. I guess what I wanted to get across is that the public land isn't infinite and I know my buddies in Wisconsin think it is out here and all the while they pay 1000s to hunt good WT land and with draw zones public land is becoming same with the increased hunter numbers. So how many is too many? I think we are reaching the tipping point in a lot of areas and hunting elk in Idaho is becoming less about actually hunting elk and more about can we find a area where guys won't be blowing all the game out everyday, which is sad.

12,816 would be too many non resident hunters in Idaho. . . Because the elk quota is 12,815 for non residents. Non residents literally cannot continue to increase in numbers hunting elk in Idaho due to being capped.

I would bitch more about people moving there so they can get resident licences . . . They must be the real problem! NR have been capped for quite some time. Colorado well they have a good reason to be upset but all residents need to do is voluntarily take a 300% or 400% price increase on all species and the fish cops will be much more open to eliminating some non resident tags.

 

[Newtosavage]

I would bitch more about people moving there so they can get resident licences . . .

So, it's okay if it's an Idaho resident who has 5 kids who all end up hunting, but not okay if someone chooses to move to Idaho to hunt? I don't understand the reasoning...

Idaho has 1.7 million residents and is 70% public land. Texas has 28.3 million residents and is 4.2% public land. I haven't done the math, but I'm gonna guess there are a few more public acres per person in most (if not all) states than there are in TX.

 

[Newtosavage]

So out of curiosity, I did the math...

In Texas, we have 0.248 acres of public land for each resident.

In Idaho, there are 21.823 acres of public land for each resident, or over 80 times more public land per person.

Since the OP asked how many is too many, I wonder, how much is enough?