How many is too many

[Blackdirt Cowboy]

Then leave, no one is making you be here..

I think everyone just get's annoyed of the lazy questions from people that just joined the site just like any other forum in existence.

But that’s not what this thread is about. The question OP asked is how many is too many. He’s specifically addressing crowding in the woods. The answer to his question is simple. Too many is not quantifiable. Every citizen of this great country has a right to be on public land whenever they so choose. And they have the right to bring foreign visitors with them to show them the great majesty of some of the most beautiful land in our country.

Now, hunting is easier to quantify. How man hunters is too many? Exactly one more than the current population that are allowed to own weapons. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I am one of the new hunters in western states. I haven’t and won’t come in here and ask lazy questions. I get that that can be a problem. I’ve done and am constantly doing research on where I intend to hunt.

All I can say to you more seasoned western hunters is move over and make room because I’m comin in wether you like it or not. To all the guys on the fence who are thinking about going out west or their first hunt, I say come on in boys the water is fine.

 

[realunlucky]

To all the guys on the fence who are thinking about going out west or their first hunt, I say come on in boys the water is fine.

You don't know anything about the water just what Google tells you lol

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[realunlucky]

I think you can see it here in Rokslide in the last five years in general more people have become more tight lipped. I use to help people with application strategy but now I worry more about drawing my own tags. No one wants to join in a conversation get a few posts under thier belt and be part of the rokslide community just help me find "MY" elk that lives on "MY" public land. States with no draws and high qutoa of tag numbers are hit hardest. People even on rokslide in 2019 are still spotlighting units and helping drive up point creep. Sharing is good but to much sharing hurts everyone

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[NDGuy]

I am one of the new hunters in western states. I haven’t and won’t come in here and ask lazy questions. I get that that can be a problem. I’ve done and am constantly doing research on where I intend to hunt.

I agree with your overall sentiment concerning everyone should be able to utilize public lands. But I also completely understand and empathize people frustrated the way NRs can impact game quality and public land availability/access. Take MT for instance, very liberal NR tag allocations which is awesome for us that just want to get out hunting! I also understand and sympathize the residents that get frustrated watching areas they have hunted their whole lives be diminished of quality game and public land, meanwhile scores of NRs are still shooting little forkies and spikes. Don't even get me started on the shoulder seasons!

To top it all off with the continued loss of habitat and public lands, it leaves a lot less areas where people can go to enjoy a quality public land hunt without it looking like a Walmart parking lot at the trailhead.

 

[Newtosavage]

I’ve met some of the fines people out west. They have helped me more than I can ever repay. Guess it’s all about attitude. Had one gentleman give me his old Idaho maps with road that are no longer marked. The friend that introduced us said that guys that have known him for years, beg to get a look at them and now I have them.
I’ve spent the past 2 years in Illinois helping a couple guys get their first WT buck. Only shoot a doe and coyote myself. Best couple seasons I’ve had in a long time.
Public out west is public, but we still have to show respect for each other.

This is my experience as well. Two years ago, I found myself running blind in a new unit because I wanted to hunt closer to where my son lived (he was in Boulder at the time) since he could only come out to hunt with me on the weekends. So the new unit was much, much more crowded than I was used to down in the SW corner of CO. It would have been very easy for me to get frustrated with all the camps at every trailhead. While I was glassing from a high point on a road a few days before season, a wonderfully nice guy from SC comes along and starts up a conversation. He saw my TX plates and asked if I knew the area. I told him I was (almost) completely blind but for some e-scouting I had done last minute. He sprung into action and pulled out his phone with OnX maps and basically told me everything he had learned in the past week of scouting, and over the past 2 years he had hunted there. I was blown away. Nicest guy I've ever met on public land. He gave me three good leads into areas he said he saw lots of sign and no other hunters, but that he could only be in one place at a time so I was welcome to those spots. I spent the next two days scouting those areas and he was absolutely right. I saw tons of sign, had several great encounters and no other hunters, all within 1 mi. of a heavily traveled road. That guy literally saved my hunt that year.

I've done the same for a lot of people on public land back East. I love to scout as much as I love to hunt, so I always have more spots than I can possibly hunt, and if I meet someone who is new or who is struggling, especially if it looks like they are willing to work, I'm happy to help them out with what I know.

Now, a few people I've tried to help either can't or don't want to work as hard as I am accustomed to, and that's fine. I try to help them find places closer to the road that may pay off for them.

But the post above that said if you're running into people, just get off the damn trail - is spot on. Last year my buddy and I "post holed" it through some deep snow and downfall up a steep ridge and found ourselves hunting in an area where there was zero hunter sign, not more than 1/2 mile from a county road and less than 3/4 mile from a large camp.

What I have learned from hunting that crowded area West of Denver the past two years is that no matter how many camps I see, 80% of those guys are not willing to go where I go, so it doesn't bother me at all anymore. Well, so long as they shut the hell up at night and let me get some sleep. LOL

 

[GregB]

I don't mind helping people out with some advice. What drives me crazy is when they post "1st time hunter what unit should I go hunt". It seems like they just want someone to tell them where to go without and not put any work into research, scouting etc. I don't think guys get bashed for posting asking for advice if they have put some work in. But when you're the 100th guy saying hey can someone tell me where to go and the 99 other threads before that all contain the same response with where to go to research information and make a decision, I mean come on. If a guy says hey I've narrowed it down to this unit or units and I have experience in the area I have, and will give some advice because they have put in some work and aren't looking for a free handout.

 

[Ryan Pent]

In my opinion it has everything to do with accessibility to content, born at raised showed elk hunting in 5 states with easily accessible tags if not otc and they have 88k people that watch videos of them being successful. Hunting public did the same thing out east with their white tail tour, and a turkey tour and have 99k followers There are many many more pages that do similar things. So it’s not just how many people can the woods out west hold, It’s happening everywhere. I believe it’s a good thing. It may be inconvenient from time to time, but Without hunters we don’t have these public lands and this isn’t even a discussion.

Like it has been said if you don’t want to help don’t help. I think there are bigger concerns to have than someone helping out with access questions, and some other legitimate questions.

Just an opinion from a “mid westerner”



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bowtech840]

I can’t imagine living out west with millions of acres of public ground and not being able to find a spot to hunt. Residents will always have a huge advantage over non residents in terms of finding a place to hunt. If you live that close to that much public ground with that much opportunity and can’t get it done, I think maybe you’re not as good of a hunter as you think. Maybe not even instafamous good. Spend more time scouting and less time bitching maybe? Idk what the answer is but it’s just odd that some ppl get it done year in and year out on public ground without huge rants and others are busy ranting about “their spot”. Maybe tags should come with a participation ribbon or optional trophy.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mwebs]

I have done fine filling my tags, but looking at Google Earth and seeing "millions of acres of public land" and actually finding areas that hold elk and not hunters is a different animal. Guys can say get off the trails and you will be alone all they want but I find that less and less possible. I guess what I wanted to get across is that the public land isn't infinite and I know my buddies in Wisconsin think it is out here and all the while they pay 1000s to hunt good WT land and with draw zones public land is becoming same with the increased hunter numbers. So how many is too many? I think we are reaching the tipping point in a lot of areas and hunting elk in Idaho is becoming less about actually hunting elk and more about can we find a area where guys won't be blowing all the game out everyday, which is sad.

 

[Newtosavage]

With the luck I've had elk hunting the past four years, I probably should get a participation ribbon. LOL

I have hunted heavily pressured public land in TX and Southern IL for the past 17 years. No place - not even the so-called "wilderness areas" are more than a mile off the road. In that time, I've shot plenty of whitetails - all with a bow and most with a traditional bow - and I've been walked in on exactly ONCE in 17 years of hunting. And that was a guy who had a full pack frame and was packing a whole deer out on his frame. IOW, he earned it more than most.

It gets said so much it should be a sticky on every hunting forum. If you're seeing other hunters, you just aren't working hard enough. That goes for waterfowl hunting too. There is always a place you can get away from the crowds. Maybe you have to bushwhack or climb some steep terrain. Maybe you have to use a kayak to get through the flooded timber. Maybe you just find places that nobody else thinks of or they go past. But they are always there. If they weren't, us Eastern public land hunters would have quit hunting a long time ago.

 

[Newtosavage]

I think we are reaching the tipping point in a lot of areas and hunting elk in Idaho is becoming less about actually hunting elk and more about can we find a area where guys won't be blowing all the game out everyday, which is sad.

What makes you think that point wasn't reached in the 70's? I promise you, there were hunters saying the same thing back then, frustrated that the Western forests had gone to hell because they were seeing 2 or 3 other hunters where they used to see none.

It's all relative. Future generations of hunters will have other things to complain about. Like folks dropping themselves into remote wilderness areas by drone. It's coming.

 

[jmez]

If the number of hunters doubles over the next ten years and the harvest stats stay the same it still won't be too many. Game and fish manages the animal population, not hunter expectations, and they shouldn't. Especially on public land. If too many elk are being killed in OTC units then the unit will no longer be OTC, it will become limited.

Public land is just that, public. Anyone can and should be able to use the resource until game animal numbers, not hunter numbers, dictate otherwise.

Some of my areas have seen an influx of people, some haven't. I don't worry about it, they have as much right to be there as I do. I worry about finding and killing an elk, I find that a very large percentage of the "new guys" on the mountain really don't know much about hunting elk. They don't affect me much.

No one is entitled to anything on public land. You want' solitude and to be undisturbed, lease a place to hunt elk. If that then becomes over run with people you have a legitimate gripe.

 

[mwebs]

I absolutely agree you can get away from the crowds, what I said was it is becoming harder with each passing year. Obviously guys will complain in every era but it is a FACT there are more guys hunting out west than ever. We work hard and find places without guys, but that wasn't my point. I used to waterfowl hunt on the Mississippi so I get the comparison and even that is becoming a clown show. I don't know if I wanted this to become one if those complaining threads but I guess it has..

 

[cnelk]

Even the CPW has recognized the increase in archery numbers as it is a topic on the 2020-2024 BGSS

 

[jmez]

You started a complaining thread?

The answer is simple. When OTC type areas start falling below animal objective numbers the number of hunters will be regulated.

 

[Jethro]

I don't understand what the OP is getting at with this thread. He doesn't like people asking about units on the internet. They should get out and learn for themselves. But then is upset that guys are out there, not hunting like he thinks they should, and ruining his spots.

 

[Newtosavage]

I absolutely agree you can get away from the crowds, what I said was it is becoming harder with each passing year. Obviously guys will complain in every era but it is a FACT there are more guys hunting out west than ever. We work hard and find places without guys, but that wasn't my point. I used to waterfowl hunt on the Mississippi so I get the comparison and even that is becoming a clown show. I don't know if I wanted this to become one if those complaining threads but I guess it has..

So that's where experience is valuable. As we get older, we are supposed to learn sh*t that helps us get what we want and adjust to things like "more people" than we used to see.

I'll give you an example... it's easy for most public land hunters to think that the further in they go, the fewer people and more game they will see. But most folks are only willing to go so far, right? So that creates a "hunting zone" that exists from about 1/4 mi. to 1/2 mi. wide in Eastern woods, and about 2x that out West. And strangely enough, there are always animals that hang out near roads and take advantage of the fact that hunters walk right past them before they start hunting.

For years, I've killed whitetails on public land that were within earshot of a heavily traveled road. The more traffic the better, actually. One of my most reliable strategies on heavily pressured public land is to find out what the rules are regarding distance from roads, houses or other structures, then scout those areas just beyond that distance first. Those are the places everyone walks right through without even stopping and often there are plenty of critters in there that are used to the roads and houses and also grew up watching hunters pass through. I can't tell you how many deer and hogs and ducks I've taken within 1/4 mile of a busy road or subdivision. And a little "pro tip" is that those same deer are used to smelling human scent so you're less likely to get busted.

I noticed the same thing happens in elk country. Most of the guys are going in 1/2-1 mile before they start to hunt. Meanwhile, I have seen 6x6 bulls with harems of cows literally standing on the side of busy highways while hunters were a mile in.

So these days, I am either next to a busy road or so far in that if I see anyone, I usually shake their hand for making the effort. If it's solitude I want, then it's the latter. But if I want to actually kill something, it's usually the former.

 

[cnelk]

I probably shouldnt mention this, but in the last 10 years we've killed about 18 elk less than a mile from our vehicle.

In 2015, we killed 4 [1 cow & 3 bulls] and the furthest pack was 300yds to the truck

'Go Deep Roksliders, Go Deep'

 

[204guy]

Many of the ID residents on here seem to have a viral hatred for NR. It must be bad or there's something in the water over there. Maybe try buying a second bull elk tag to make yourself feel better?
Sounds like the OP moved to ID so he's got his, now everyone else stay out? Instead of don't Californate maybe it should be don't Wisconsite ID.

 

[*zap*]

Hunted animals may be where people do not go, that's means where people do not hunt/walk thru while hunting.
Closer to the road where there is no parking and closer to parking but via the most difficult route from that parking. Knee high water keeps most hunters from accessing the other side of that body of water.